Great Western Coffee Shop

What things about our railway system would most surprise someone who's new to trains?  I'm just imagining explaining how things work on the trains to such a visitor who arrives on our doorstep.

Here's what I came up with (and with much thanks to previous contribuors who have given me some of the ideas):

* Sometime passengers have to open the window, lean out of the window and operator a lever to get out, ignoring the sign that says "do not lean out of the window"

* Until their 16th birthday, young people can travel by train at about half price, even though they occupy just as many seats  as do the same number of people who have passed their 16th birthday

* Some trains still carry their own power generation plants, which burn non-sustainable fossil fuel that will run out in the forseeable future if it carries on like this.

* Many trains and buses are run by the same companies, and most people who use the train change at least at one of their journey into something like a bus or car.  But even when trains and buses are run by the same company, the bus somethimes leaves a minute before the train is due, and almost empty.

* Some trains are designated as "offpeak" and "superoffpeak" but they can be full and standing (no, you may have bought a ticket but you are not guaranteed a seat, or even to be able to actually get on).  Some trains which are designated "peak" and can be very expensive indeed to use can be nearly empty.

* You can buy a ticket electronically to travel from Melksham to Chippenham tomorrow morning, but you'll have to go to Chippenham to collect it before you start your journey.

* You're allowed to burn poison sticks (called cigarretes) just outside the entrance to stations, making all the people who want to use the train walk through the dangerous smokey haze.

* There are villages of 60 houses that are served by 2 trains every hour, all day ... and less then ten miles away is a town of over 20,000 people that only has only 2 trains each way a day

* There are 2 direct trains a day from Swindon and Chippenham to Salisbury, but none direct the other way (yet ;-) )

* There are a lot of trains on which you can't get a drink of fresh water - even on some longish journeys.

* You can choose any one of over 50 different tickets if you want to travel from Melksham to London on the 19:47 next Thursday.  And that's before you start looking at railcards, buying your ticket in two stages (which may be cheaper if you buy on the way and know where to 'split'), or group discounts.

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/fc01.jpg) (http://www.wellho.net/pix/fc02.jpg) (http://www.wellho.net/pix/fc03.jpg)

* if a train goes 6 inches past a red light it will be terminated at the next station and the driver sent for retraining

*BR no longer exists

* There is no longer any such thing as a station porter, or indeed anyone at all to help you with your luggage

*That in this day and age, some passengers consider it an enshrined right to be 'helped' with their mountains of luggage, much of which is completely unnecessary.   

IMO, time to start charging for 'excess baggage.'

BTW, has anyone noted that surf 'longboards' now attact a fee?.   

Searching for informtion at unmanned station regarding destinations directly served by the station, possible destinations with one change. Direction of travel ie which platform. The new CIS is OK but it only gives you actual trains and their stops for instance off peak trains from Taplow do not stop at Langley (large FE college and lots of industry) and Iver you have to change at Slough. To find this out you ahve to go half way along Platform 4 to see the full timetabel, however if you want to check your trains back to taplow you ahve to go over the steps to paltform 3.

Then finally the real killer finding the right FARE or one that's not a rip off and doesn't inccur  a penalty fare. Then there's the little matter getting a ticket!

We have checked this information at Taplow and you have to look at at least 5 posters on different platforms to find the info then you have to puzzle out the TVM and find it doesn't take cash.

It really encourages people to travel by train especialy as the penalty fare notice is usually one of the few prominnet ones.

I think before TOCS charge penalty fares from unmanned stations they should look to the motes in their own eyes and not blame the passengers.

It's no wonder XX% (can some one fill in please I know it's pretty high) of citizens never use the railway

Can we summarise as

* How incredibly hard it can be to find out the information you need about train times, fares, and how to buy your ticket

I'm not entirely sure a railway newbie would think like that though, to be honest. I think most have an impression gained not so much from collective memory but especially amongst younger people, including students off to Uni for the first time who I'd imagine make up a large proportion of train travelling newbies at this time of year, from watching old films and programmes about rail travel overseas, that railway stations are (a) manned, and (b) manned by people who are there to help.

The same people probably think that trains have luggage vans (which quite frankly, I think the long-haul ones actually should - many other aspects of train travel today emulates the air-flight industry, so why not baggage check-in, with a charge for anything over a certain size?) and that there are guards on board to preserve order and protect them should any unruly behaviour occur.

Various stations in Devon have some part time Summer staff that assist with loading the trains and closing doors. Exeter, Dawlish and Teignmouth come to mind. Probably as close to a station porter as you can get since they all seem to be quite young so obviously not permenant staff.

timetables/contact info/area map/special offers
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current running/contact with an assistant
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onward travel :-)
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you may struggle here when unmanned tho ......

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Too bad that some of them also think that it is perfectly OK to board a train and attempt to defraud the TOC by not tendering the correct fare or attempting to avoid it all together. That wouldn't happen in the airline industry either, or even on a bus.

HSTs have luggage vans, AKA power cars, which are used for bulky items and BRUTE luggage trolleys. The problem is that power cars must be platformed to access the van section.  Not always possible in the Wild West.

_{Edited to fix quote. i_b}

Usefull links on a more serious note:

Guidelines on luggage aswell as details on carry my luggage service
http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=4105

Assisted travel booking form and information
http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/AssistedTravel.aspx

Information and advice on taking a bike with you
http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=80

modified :just noticed we are in the lighter side .... face palm

I tend to side with Maxwell on the luggage issue, I really don't understand why people seem to think it's perfectly fine for them to bring far more than they could ever reasonably carry then simply expect someone else to deal with it for them. I overheard a conversation between a mother and daughter travelling on a 153 in west Wales with an unfeasible mountain of luggage (filling the luggage area and blocking the gangway) that the staff had to help them carry it from one train to another. They also got a bit p*ssy when I asked them to move some of it so I could actually dive off the train as soon as possible when we arrived in Swansea (several minutes late) so I could jump onto the connecting train...

Regarding checked baggage - bit of a red herring IMHO. I've been on several Amtrak trains which have a free checked baggage service, and nobody uses it ever. They'd much rather just drag all their bags on board where they have instant access to the contents and don't have to wait to retrieve them at their destination. The same increasingly applies on aircraft - even on flights where checked baggage is free (a bit of a rarity these days on domestic flights in the US, but Southwest is an honourable exception and allows two free checked bags per person) people still think they're much too important to wait five minutes at a baggage carousel to collect their stuff, so drag it all on board, fill up all the lockers and then complain when the cabin staff have to 'gate check' the bags because there's physically no more room! Moral of the story - lots of people don't like being separated from their bags. I must be a bit unusual in that when I'm flying I'm more than happy to get shot of my suitcase at the earliest opportunity and let someone else carry it around until I collect it when I get to the other end.

And as relex just rightly pointed out, there are limitations on the amount you can carry and specified fees for excess bags on the railways, as part of the 'Accompanied Animals and Articles' section in the conditions of carriage. Whether they're ever enforced to the letter I'm not too sure though.

it really needs enforcing, but in reality would need a huge pos campaign at all stations with penalty fairs applicable, not just due to lack of space on board but also for revenue .. should be (and this isn't what it is but i think would be fair and would solve problems) one suitcase and one backpack/hand bag per person free of charge and the AAA fair for each additional item 

Hoping, of course, that your baggage isn't at Dallas/Fort Worth whilst you are patiently waiting by the carousel at JFK....  :P

http://www.carrymyluggage.com/

Yeah ... I thought that some of the issues might get a bit heated otherwise  ;)

I 'hear' you on information ... sometimes it *is* there though not necessary easy to find (which I think was 8F's point). This thread was for the newcomer to trains.  

When a newbie arrives at my local station to make his / her first journey, I would like him / her to be able to find out:
* When and where the train goes from, what time it arrives, and where changes are needed
* Where to get his ticket
* What the fare will be
* When trains come back the other way

Of course that's not for all possible journeys to the other 2536 stations on the network - let's say the most common 3 journeys.

Looking at my local station (Melksham) and the 3 most common ticket sales AFAIK (Swindon, Bristol, London)

- Fare. No information
- Where to get ticket. No information
- Times of trains. To (and from) Swindon.  Yes - read from "Portsmouth to Cardiff".  Difficult for newbie
- Times of trains. To (and from) Bristol. Yes - for 2 out of 4 daily services only, and even then only by reading the "Cardiff to Portsmouth" section for the start of the journey, then the "Portsmouth to Cardiff" for the rest of the way. Very difficult indeed for the Newbie.  No information on the other two services.
- Time of trains. To (and from) London. Connection time not show on current posters. (May have been corrected this weekend if new timetables were posted)

Yes, pressing the button and speaking to someone could fix some of these issues.   And I do think that - as time goes by - some of the information that's lacking should and can be persuaded into place by the Rail Partnership - so we have a real case of opportunity for poacher turned gamekeeper here.

Why waste money on huge posters advertising penalty fare reflex. Just make it easy to purchase a reasonably priced ticket easily and quickly either before boarding or on the train. Big notice threatening Penalty Fares is not eaxctly passenger friendly.

Like Starcross; looks good is info up to date. We think we've got similar posters at Taplow but they are scattered over the station. We do have at least 21 no smoking signs!

sorry if i failed to get my point across, i was referring solely to the luggage issue, such changes could easily be added to existing pf posters   

Penalty fares can't be applied from stations which are unmanned and do not have a working ticket vending machine.  The yellow notices are designed to grab the attention of those who are sometimes a little shy in the pocket department and are, I believe, a DFT requirement.

Wondering whether to post a comment and tempt fate. But better not, because if I did I suspect next time I fly to heathrow my bag will end up in Luala Lumpur. "Fly the Flag, Lose Your Bag", after all...

or even worse if lost end up in the hands of a certain fleet of green and yellow vans to 'return' to you .................

I was at Palma airport in June.  There were cases going round labelled for CDG, Barcelona, Madrid and even one for JFK!  All these had labels from the same handling company.  I can't imagine how many times the labels could've been checked before they were loaded onto the wrong plane wherever they came from!

Don't get me started on the green and yellow vans.  I used them to send a parcel on Wednesday with next day delivery.  Still no sign of a delivery ::)

humm i will pm you

Just remember... transatlantic flying is still worth the cost. Intra-Europe flights ain't what they used to be. Take a look at this critique from a prominent European politician.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0rxASx1SxY

Note: Fruity (no... beyond fruity) language alert..... 

That said, I love the line, "Mussolini's lederhosen ended up in a warehouse in Derby" :P ;) ;D

British Rail Universal Trolley Equipment, one for the acronyms page

Done!  ;) :D ;D

a) If less passengers use a service, more subsidy is required
b) If more passengers use a service, more subsidy is required.

Yep it's a modern manifestation of the Parkinson Laws of buearacracy.

Based on Work expands to fill the time available:

Thus: "Subsidy expands to fulfill the service provided".

Can't be changed it's a law.

The 19:03 Paddington-Plymouth HST is extended to Penzance on Fridays.

This has been the Norm for many years, Railway Staff in Cornwall know it as The Friday Only

However a few years back the 19:03 ran Paddington to Penzance Monday to Friday.

Jo Public just couldn't get his head round a Friday only train running on a MONDAY, or Tuesday etc.

Added confusion in high summer when it runs through from PAD as a HS working.

This service, as a whole and not just the Friday edition, is often called the 'Late Show' as it involves crews from PNZ staying up well past their bed times :-)