Great Western Coffee Shop

There is something that really iritates me about rail services in Devon and that is the lack of services from Plymouth. A city with a population size of 250,000 has only a Branch line service to Gunnislake, a slow service to London Paddington and Bristol with the odd Cross Country service to Glasgow, Manchester and Leeds.

But there should be more. What happened to the South West trains servcice to London Waterloo that could have still carried on to Plymouth rather then Penzance. And the Brighton service vanished years ago and that is a service that i feel worked and should have not disspaeared. I also cant see why you could not do a Barnstaple/Exmouth to Plymouth carry it on abit. The amount of people i have seen on the Torquay/Paignton service have fisnished there joureny to Plymouth. And how about a Cardiff - Plymouth service? I dont see why the lack of investment into transport to Plymouth on rail is so bad. The airport has closed and Plymouth is threatend with being cut off from the rest of the country. Especially with the New eletrification stopping at Exeter, plymouh is larger and more people finish there journey in Plymouth then Exeter. 

No one is using it, otherwise the air service wouldn't have stopped.

Show me your proof that more use Plymouth than Exeter?

The flows to anywhere but London are so small that changing where necessary is best option for the money. You have hourly to London & hourly XC service too. Prove to me that trains are overcrowded leaving PLY.

Not a Plymouth specific point here, ChrisB (I don't know Plymouth well enough) but it strikes me ...

a) There are cases where services have been pulled in spite of good and growing use.  "Use it or loose it" became rather more "use it and loose it" in at least one case in December 2006.   17:40 train, 2 car, packed commuter train on Friday, 8th.  Nothing for over an hour more on 11th ... and the morning commuter train in the other direction moved 30 minutes earlier, destroying a usable service as far as the users were concerned.    It don't think it's fair to assume that a service will be provided just because it would be well used.

b) Of course no-one is using it.  How could anyone currently be using a service that no longer exists  ;)

Air southWest stated it closed thtough insufficient use

Air Southwest closed there busiest route to Gatwick enough said based on the above! Flybe are at least 95% full every flight to Gatwick from Newquay.

I fully expect to be the subject of a fatwah from the Janner Taliban for this, but isn't it time for a reality check?

What does a loose knit conurbation of 250K inhabitants, struggling city centre,declining industrial base and increasingly low skilled workforce have to offer?  Factor in an antiquated and inadequate airport; also consider that the regional business capital and comparatively thriving city of Exeter, complete with burgeoning airport is only c50 miles away and it's no surprise that it's game over for Roborough.  Exeter may be smaller in terms of city population, but it is the natural hub for a expansive and reasonably wealthy hinterland.

Perhaps Plymouth's lack of services are in direct proportion to its lack of dynamism, ambition and appeal as a place for investment.

AFAIK, there are no plans to electrify to Exeter, let alone Plymouth, so for the foreseeable, that door is closed too.

i can see your comments Maxwell p. We'd much rather travel to Exeter for a day out then Plymouth. (live in penryn) as Exeter seems a far more pleasant city. As you drive or ride the train into plymouth you see awful run down housing estates *runs for cover* whereas you drive into Exeter the housing estates dont look too bad. After all first impressions are everything!

There's the simple fact as well that there are a much wider variety of lines which use Exeter as a hub. The Barnstaple, Exmouth and Paignton lines centre on Exeter while the Waterloo line starts there. Plymouth only has the Gunnislake line and maybe the Tavistock line (which uses much of the same route) in the future.

Unless trains on the lines that are there are usually heaving, it's hard to see where the demand would be. Incidentally my experience of SWT services west of Exeter is that other than in high summer or on commuter services they were very lightly used - certainly when I travelled through Exeter they were much busier east of Exeter.

I believe the Penzance - Portsmouth Harbour service that Wessex used to run via Westbury was generally well used - but as it was only a 2-car train, it probably lost money.

mmm, interesting comments. I car share from Torquay to Plymouth daily to work at the Uni (significant Plymouth employer). Now, if I didn't share, it would be cheaper to buy a season than commute by car, with the cost of fuel and all that...

BUT, the first train (apart from 1C99!!) gets in at 0815 (give or take...) This is too late, I like to be in for 0730 but there's no option (leaving TQY @ 0640 by car)

If I was heading in the opposite direction or indeed from PNZ then plenty of choice, as is the nature of a line that sends early morning trains in a specific direction.

Is rail travel to a so called major conurbation really considered? OK, not an easy question, but who do we 'blame'? Rail Partnerships, FGW, NR?

How do (tongue in cheek here) the 'suppliers' actually listen to the 'market'?

Is this over simplifying a complex situation...?

There's also a lack of services into Plymouth.

Looking just at the Monday to Friday service in the early morning

Plymouth is (shall we say) roughly equal in population (to prevent WW3) to Exeter in size, yet whilst there are trains from Exeter arriving at Plymouth at 04:30 (04:50ish on Monday) the next arrival from Exeter arrives at Plymouth at 08:12

However trains arrive at Exeter St D from Plymouth  at 06:10 06:21 06:33 06:50 07:21 07:42 07:51 before 08:00

Great for those that live in Plymouth & Work in Exeter.

About as much use as a Chocolate Frying Pan for those that live in Exeter & work in Plymouth.

To me the 06:40 Plymouth-Gunnislake should start back at Exeter at 05:40 calling Dawlish, Teignmouth, Newton Abbot, Totnes and Ivybridge.

Population of Exeter is less than half that of Plymouth.  Nevertheless, I maintain that this is a red herring.  The overall value of Exeter as a destination is far greater than that of Plymouth, particularly when viewed from further east.

Extending the 00:40 is probably viable though, albeit with an EX crew as far as PLY.

what time and where does the first cardiff service from the south west start?

From Plymouth 0520 XC, change at Bristol TM, arrive 0846
From Penzance 0505 (HST) FGW, change at Exeter SD and Bristol TM, arrive 1043.

sorry bnm i ment direct service from exeter if there still is one?

i believe the furthest west the cdfs come is taunton, may be wrong though?

i aint been on one in over a year but there were paignton cardiffs and exeter cardiffs (starting from the bay platform)

Only direct are the 0800 ex Cardiff to Paignton and 0900 ex Cardiff to Plymouth. Nothing direct in the opposite direction.

0933 Exeter - Cardiff operated by 143 would be first direct from Exeter.

Also 1347 Paignton - Cardiff

with the 0933 Exeter - Cardiff operated by 143 would it be possible use that unit for a early exeter-plymouth service which would have the added bonus of providing a plymouth to cardiff service? ...or is the unit used elsewhere earlier in the morning

I think you mean the 12:47 Paignton - Cardiff

exeter-cardiff on a 143 sounds a pleasurable experience!

its really not! but not for the reasons you would think ...... it was comfortable until it became packed out, infact i would have stayed on it for hours... just a shame they dont have fold down tables

My apologies. Meant nothing direct from Devon to CDF early am. devon_metro is of course correct with the 0933 from EXD and the 1347 from PGN.  :-[

I dont see what the problem is here, Plymouth has an hourly daytime service to Bristol/Birmingham, hourly service to London, 2 trains per hour to Newton Abbot/Exeter, hourly to Truro/Penzance, not bad for a city that is situated in a far from easy location in terms of terrain from the rest of the country! And lets face it, Plymouth hasnt got an awful lot going for it!

No! I won't have that! They've got that wonderful massive sun dial on the pedestrianised Armada Way!  :P

there is the hoes .... and that large south facing open public space adjacent to the limestone cliffs



actually in fairness while at college/uni in plymouth why dont you try and get a list of people who live between exeter and ivybridge who travel in by car every day and would use the train if one arrived in between 7 and 730 then if you get enough signatures put it forward to fgw to look into

Ivybridge - PLY would have a decent loading at that time of day. Doubt many from any further east, mind.

you've been to union street then  :D :D

oh silly me and my poor typing .... that 's' was a typo  :D