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Journey by Journey => London to the West => Topic started by: JayMac on August 26, 2011, 12:30:00



Title: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: JayMac on August 26, 2011, 12:30:00
From the Exeter Express & Echo (http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/story-13207349-detail/story.html):

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Anne Marie Morris, Conservative MP for Newton Abbot, says the Westcountry must reap the reward of train fare rises through improved investment in its rail network

The Government's announcement that regulated rail fares will increase by eight per cent is another pressure already stretched household budgets can ill afford. We are told the above-inflation rise is to fund improvements, but in South Devon we can expect to see our familiar diesel Intercity 125s for years to come. They have given sterling service for many decades, but aren't in the first flush of youth.

The M5 only goes as far as Exeter and it seems the next generation of express trains will terminate there too.

Railways are vital to our national transport infrastructure and projects like HS2, Crossrail and Thameslink are fantastic initiatives for the areas to be served. Future economic benefits far outweigh costs, which is why the Government is pressing ahead despite these tough economic times.

The drive to develop our transport links is fuelled by a desire to let businesses escape the South East, where living costs are high and the cost of commercial property higher, but for some reason we seem to be focusing almost exclusively on the North and Midlands.

Bristol will benefit from faster, more spacious trains thanks to electrification of the Great Western main line, but Devon and Cornwall, further west, once again have been overlooked for electrification.

Former public sector employees are hunting for private sector jobs, so ensuring sufficient transport links for Devon and Cornwall is essential to our future economic prosperity.

With only a short stretch of motorway running as far as Exeter, drivers then face a spider's web of roads that are often congested or not fit for purpose. I hope the Government will fund the long-awaited Kingskerswell bypass, but this is just one piece of the puzzle. A functioning road network, plus a modern rail service and better communication links could turn the region into an attractive proposition for large businesses in London and the South East.

Too often people try to portray investment in roads or railways as mutually exclusive options. We need to tackle these misconceptions and work towards a South West transport network we can all be proud of.

I was pleased to see the Government confirm its commitment to the coastal railway, which carries more than two million passengers a year and is a tourist attraction. Dawlish, Teignmouth and surrounding villages often rely on train journeys, either for business or pleasure. A train storming along the line, diving in and out of cliff tunnels as sea spray spatters the windows, is a majestic sight, reigniting the romance of the railways of old.

The line is a local asset, but many trains that use it seem to limp rather than storm and any notion of romance is ruined by the passengers being crammed inside like sardines. When people come to enjoy our beaches and moorlands they should feel as if they are travelling first class on the Orient Express.

Tourism provides employment for many people and generates indirect benefits for other industries. We need investment to cope with the extra cars on our roads and passengers on our railways at the height of the tourist season.

Short trains with only a few carriages might be sufficient for local routes used by commuters, but they cannot cope with the sheer number of visitors looking to use them in summer. Increasing the capacity of the rail network will ensure that passengers receive the premium service they are paying for.

Much-needed investment in our railway stations now seems to be forthcoming. Some stations are dated and unwelcoming, while others continue to present problems to people with disabilities.

But we must also explore reopening stations which were previously closed but might now offer a viable alternative mode of transport to the local communities.

Towns and villages expand, and routes deemed unsustainable under the Beeching reforms in the 60s, may well be an ideal solution to transport problems now.

North and West Devon bore the brunt of the Beeching axe, with many lines and stations closing, having a huge impact on the tourist industry.

The Government is now preparing to commission a new Greater Western franchise, due to start in 2013. Regardless of which operator is awarded the contract, it is important that it is given the freedom to respond to passenger requirements, whether it relates to increasing capacity or improving stations.

I've come to accept that electrification is a dream that will not be realised for some time, but it is still a long-term aim for which we should continue to strive.

Meanwhile, station refurbishments and replacing our badly overcrowded, dilapidated rolling stock are achievable and realistic goals. I will continue to put pressure on the Government to invest in the South West's transport network.


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: ChrisB on August 26, 2011, 13:34:17
Trouble is, the fares box is judt so small in the SW, if it were nearer the rest of the country, I think her plea would carry more weight?


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: anthony215 on August 26, 2011, 14:55:09
I do think perhaps a new route should be built when money is available which avoids the sea wall and is wired so that there are new high speed trains serving Plymouth etc.  Besides i think FGW should get some of the class 91's and mk4 stock with a new diesel loco hauling the trains from Exeter via dawlish to Plymouth/Paignton etc


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: Rhydgaled on August 26, 2011, 22:49:54
Does the author realise the complaints one hears about underfloor diesel engines on Intercity trains, and that the bi-mode IEPs are only 5-car? Isn't there going to be an IEP stabling facility in Plymouth (and therefore a mix of IEP and IC125 services) anyway? IC125s may be old but perhaps they are the best for the job at hand until such time as electrification could be extended to Plymouth, personally I don't think IEP should go beyond Reading or Bristol towards Taunton at all.

I agree that, with RPI+3% fare rises, passengers will have even more reason to complain about trains with insufficient coaches for the level of demand.

The demand in question here is largely seasonal is it not? Shame the spare coaches that were seasonally used to extend loco-hauled trains have gone the way of the trains in question. The West Somerset Railway's suituation, having a rail link to Taunton but being unable to run through services (meaning tourists can't use rail to travel to Minehead for example) has given me an idea. Preserved railways often don't run every day out of season. If heritage railways with mainline connections were allowed to run through to their nearest National Rail station modern DMUs (ok, Sprinters aren't modern but you get my meaning) could provide a public transport service in the winter. In summer, the heritage railway would take over the services, releasing the DMUs to strengthen National Rail services. It isn't a total solution, but it might help a bit if you can get around the obvious problems with pathing heritage rolling stock limited to a few miles per hour on a 75-100mph railway.


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: woody on September 04, 2011, 12:05:11
Given the loss of air links from Plymouth rail is now to be the only effective alternative to driving for business people to get to central London from Plymouth.Something now needs to be done to improve journey times and frequencies closer to other major cities in England.Also it strikes me as odd that rail fare rises are set to national formula ie currently inflation+3%=8% on average for all "regulated" fares.Passengers on say the recently upgraded ^7billion West Coast main line from London Euston to Birmingham/Manchster/Glasgow which has been virtually rebuilt to 125mph standards for new "Pendilino" tilting trains and the ^5billion soon to be spent electrifying the Great Western main line from London Paddington to Bristol/Cardiff/Swansea together together with a new fleet of IEP trains to replace the aging HST trains currently face the same fare increases as the investment starved west of England rail main line to Paddington.Basically if the the railways can only provide the south west with a 20th century rail link then we should not have to pay 21st century rail fares at the very least.


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: JayMac on September 04, 2011, 14:15:23
Arguably there is already a price differential for those using the 'modernised' WCML. An Anytime Return from Lancaster to Euston is ^289.00. The same ticket type from Plymouth to Paddington is ^249.00. 16% cheaper. Both journeys are around 230 miles.

Are you arguing for different price rise formulas for areas that do not have a speedy direct link to the capital? The fares system is complicated enough.

And I'd also argue that Plymouth is not a 'major city'. It only ranks 20th in the UK in terms of population.


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: woody on September 05, 2011, 09:31:02
Arguably there is already a price differential for those using the 'modernised' WCML. An Anytime Return from Lancaster to Euston is ^289.00. The same ticket type from Plymouth to Paddington is ^249.00. 16% cheaper. Both journeys are around 230 miles.

Are you arguing for different price rise formulas for areas that do not have a speedy direct link to the capital? The fares system is complicated enough.

And I'd also argue that Plymouth is not a 'major city'. It only ranks 20th in the UK in terms of population.
Actually it the 14th largest city and with its hinterland has a combined population of about 400,000 and though not one of Britains "major" citys unlike now it was once considered important enough by the original GW railway to warrant major investment in 1937 west of Exeter ie the Dawlish avoiding which would have been opened in 1941 if the war had not intervened.It is becoming increasingly clear in my neck of the Woods(devon/Cornwall)that the current Swindon based FGW franchise is being run exclusively for the benefit of the Great Western Main line only and that problem needs to be addressed in the new Great Western Franchise.Yesterday a friend of mine on a South West rover ticket at Swindon noted HSTs running to and fro lighty loaded compared to to the constantly rammed HSTs we have to endure in Devon and Cornwall which says it all really.


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: ChrisB on September 05, 2011, 11:49:13
With respect, those trainms are full of holidaymakers & not Cornish/Devonian residents unfortunately. cf Winter trains....


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: TerminalJunkie on September 05, 2011, 12:08:22
Actually it the 14th largest city

It's only 21st according to http://www.ukcities.co.uk/populations/ (http://www.ukcities.co.uk/populations/), or 20th here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_United_Kingdom_settlements_by_population (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_United_Kingdom_settlements_by_population)

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with its hinterland

You are Michael Bell from Middlesbugger, and ICMFP.


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: devon_metro on September 05, 2011, 15:45:13
Arguably there is already a price differential for those using the 'modernised' WCML. An Anytime Return from Lancaster to Euston is ^289.00. The same ticket type from Plymouth to Paddington is ^249.00. 16% cheaper. Both journeys are around 230 miles.

Are you arguing for different price rise formulas for areas that do not have a speedy direct link to the capital? The fares system is complicated enough.

And I'd also argue that Plymouth is not a 'major city'. It only ranks 20th in the UK in terms of population.
Actually it the 14th largest city and with its hinterland has a combined population of about 400,000 and though not one of Britains "major" citys unlike now it was once considered important enough by the original GW railway to warrant major investment in 1937 west of Exeter ie the Dawlish avoiding which would have been opened in 1941 if the war had not intervened.It is becoming increasingly clear in my neck of the Woods(devon/Cornwall)that the current Swindon based FGW franchise is being run exclusively for the benefit of the Great Western Main line only and that problem needs to be addressed in the new Great Western Franchise.Yesterday a friend of mine on a South West rover ticket at Swindon noted HSTs running to and fro lighty loaded compared to to the constantly rammed HSTs we have to endure in Devon and Cornwall which says it all really.

"Constantly rammed"

Rarely have I ever had issues whilst travelling on HSTs in Devon/Cornwall.

Seen far more "rammed" HSTs leaving Bristol for London...


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: trainbuff on September 05, 2011, 18:07:29
Ok so the population of Plymouth is only 21st. Listed with the same population as Hull. Exeter is 43rd by the same poll! It is a fact that Plymouth is the largest city west of Bristol. Mileage from Bristol to the end of the line is arond 180 miles.

Also Plymouth has a very large catchment area from the South Hams, Cornwall and Tavistock

Investment is needed here badly. Perhaps that is why the reopening proposals for Bere Alsto to Tavistock have a BCR (Benefit Cost Ratio) of 3.5


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: smokey on September 05, 2011, 18:25:00
One thing overlooked about Rolling Stock:

Loco Hauled as against Units is this:

Besides the frequent Daily & Weekly exams that all stock gets, Engines require far more maintenance, so if you have a service that requires ten in Number 8 car train sets in use, you need 12 sets of 8 coaches and 14 Locomotives, (best if you have Twin engines, eg Western or Deltics) or 2 light power cars as per the HSTs which would push your loco requirement up to 27.
However if you have Units you have 14 sets of 8 car units. That's 112 engines you have to keep in working order.

So Maintenance on Units COSTs a WAD more than maintaining a Loco fleet.
A HST power car is only about twice the weight of a class 222 carriage.

Loco's & coaches have others advantages, you can increase or decease the amount of coaches Easily,
Take a car out of a voyager & it's a nightmare.
On a Loco hauled set you can change quickly and easily from Diesel to Electric Power units.

Ok you can couple up Units but on Inter-City type units theres no through gangway.
A class 222 can't recover a class 175 and all that, the biggest mistake on the class 43 power cars was the lack of buffers.



Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: TerminalJunkie on September 05, 2011, 18:43:55
It is a fact that Plymouth is the largest city west of Bristol.
I think you'll find that the largest city west of Bristol is Glasgow. (http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/einstein3.gif) (http://www.millan.net)


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: woody on September 05, 2011, 22:40:17
Fight begins for more fast rail links
http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Fight-begins-fast-rail-links/story-13267752-detail/story.html


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: devon_metro on September 05, 2011, 23:50:37
Not too difficult to make the 0553 leave at 0600 and arrive in London at 0900 like it used to.


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: trainbuff on September 06, 2011, 12:58:37
It is a fact that Plymouth is the largest city west of Bristol.
I think you'll find that the largest city west of Bristol is Glasgow. (http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/einstein3.gif) (http://www.millan.net)

Yes! Lol. I mean to the South West and in the South West Peninsula!!!!


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: matt473 on September 19, 2011, 14:18:00
Population in city is useless to compare as to whether somewhere requires a decent intercity service as it there may be many feeder services from outside the local area that lead to onward travel. With how usage on lines increasing greatly thanks to a better service as a result surprisingly of the pacers, better services from the West with reasonably priced feeder services could lead to a great increase in usage. Look at Bristol for example, how many of the people on the hst's to London travel from other local or nearby stations for onward travel? A far greater number no doubt than jsut the local population that use the service to travel.

I think that faster and more facilities such as catering on long distance services on the long distance services on with fgw such as Swansea, Plymouth etc. along with even better connections and prices with feeder services could greatly increase overall usage on other services. Of course this would only work properly with a single company running services so could work in South West but not in South Wales because of different TOCs.


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: The SprinterMeister on September 29, 2011, 17:07:27
Not too difficult to make the 0553 leave at 0600 and arrive in London at 0900 like it used to.
It wouldn't arrive in London at 09:00 reliably though would it? It doesn't now although to be fair Southcote Junction - Paddington seems to be the main problem.


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: The SprinterMeister on September 29, 2011, 17:18:33
Unlike now it was once considered important enough by the original GW railway to warrant major investment in 1937 west of Exeter ie the Dawlish avoiding which would have been opened in 1941.
Which is the only way you will get 25Kv overhead powered electric trains to run reliably all year round to Plymouth and beyond. All the talk of electrifying along Dawlish Sea Front is just that. Talk and it will never happen. If IEP is to run to Plymouth, you'll need  to either divert the line or use either dual mode IEP or a push pull LHCS based solution which has a loco change at Exeter. I'm not convinced by those who say LHCS is best simply because you can add extra coaches to the set in times of need, this only works with the older LHCS still in use. Modern LHCS will no doubt be rammed full of gadgets that need to talk to each other before the loco can release the brakes, it seems to be the nature of the beast to ram trains full of gadgets simply because you can. To strengthen trains you'll need some of those unheard of objects known as spare coaches which you'll no doubt need to lease off some Japanese bank for an exhorbitant sum just in case the loadings require them on any given day. I think we can rule that one out....   


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: The SprinterMeister on September 29, 2011, 17:25:36
I do think perhaps a new route should be built when money is available which avoids the sea wall and is wired so that there are new high speed trains serving Plymouth etc.  Besides i think FGW should get some of the class 91's and mk4 stock with a new diesel loco hauling the trains from Exeter via dawlish to Plymouth/Paignton etc
Depends how much time you want to spend at either Bristol or Exeter detaching the 91 and attaching a diesel or how much time you want to loose hauling an 85 tonne non passenger carrying blob over the South Devon Banks. Bear in mind you need to run round to bring the 91+stock back as the 91 cannot function as a DVT and control a diesel locomotive at the rear. That function went when they stopped using them with HST trailers / power cars.


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: inspector_blakey on September 29, 2011, 17:53:52
Just thinking aloud here, but is there any insurmountable technical obstacle to reinstating the ability of a class 91 to control another loco at the rear given that they did have this capability previous. Also thinking aloud, assuming class 91 locos were to be used and run round stock if push-pull wasn't viable, would the speed restriction on a 91 operating 'blunt-end first' (100 mph if memory serves) cause any issues in the west country or are line speeds sufficiently low?

Edited to add...
Just checked and (according to Wikipedia, anyway) the speed restriction on a class 91 working @r$e-backwards is 110 mph, not 100.


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: The SprinterMeister on September 29, 2011, 19:00:25
Just thinking aloud here, but is there any insurmountable technical obstacle to reinstating the ability of a class 91 to control another loco at the rear given that they did have this capability previous.
The principle obstacle is of course the lack of electric wires above the 91. The 91's controlled modified class 43 power cars but were obviously themselves providing traction power. Lack of Overhead lines means the 110 volt battery on the 91 isn't being charged which limits its range when being used as a DVT. It might be possible to provide an alternative 110v supply via a switch mode or simalar from the DC ETS though. All the power cars have long since lost the modifications they had to work with class 91, 67's are not fitted with TDM Multi and 57/3 & 57/6 are not iftted with Multi of any description. Everything else is too old and decrepit.

You still have the issue of hauling 85 tonnes of dead AC electric loco round if your going to haul the entire 91 + Mk4 set to Plymouth which will put about 5 minutes or more on the journey time.


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: paul7575 on September 29, 2011, 19:38:53
Can I please just ask this. 

Why are there so many posts suggesting future uses of 91s/Mk4s away from the ECML,  when there are no longer any clear plans to replace them with anything else ON the actual ECML?  AFAICS once the DfT decided to replace only the ECML HST fleet with IEPs, the former trains are stuck there...

It all seems such a pointless exercise...

Paul


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: The SprinterMeister on September 29, 2011, 20:51:45
Why are there so many posts suggesting future uses of 91s/Mk4s away from the ECML,  when there are no longer any clear plans to replace them with anything else ON the actual ECML?  AFAICS once the DfT decided to replace only the ECML HST fleet with IEPs, the former trains are stuck there...

It all seems such a pointless exercise...

Paul
Moderan Railways alludes to Alstom promoting a non tilt class 390 derivative as a possible replacement for the BR era IC225 91's and hauled stock. Although as far as I know there are no definitive plans to replace it, it might feature in some aspirant EC operators plans especially as if the franchise is let for a 15 / 20 year period.

However hauling displaced 91's and Mk4 stock past Bristol or Exeter with a diesel loco is to my mind a pretty dud idea.


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: woody on September 30, 2011, 01:07:59
As I understand it journey time improvements along the post electrified Great Western main line will be as a result of the much improved excelleration of electric traction rather than higher line speeds.Given that the "wires" are not going to reach Plymouth in the foreseeable future and that the venerable HSTs will be operating Paddington/Plymouth/Penzance services into the 2020s at least could the retained HST mini fleet be cost effectively be re-engineered  to use more of the available horsepower of the MTU diesel engine to improve excelleration and therefore journey times on west of England services.ie a higher rated electric transmission.


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: Maxwell P on September 30, 2011, 09:01:16
Following on from the above post:-

HSTs to the SW already do reasonably well until they reach NTA. However, most services are diagrammed to call at TOTnes and several at IVYbridge. Once over the bridge into Cornwall, they are at best 'semi fasts' and often used as local 'stoppers'.

This has a disastrous effect on timings, particularly where stations have short platforms, (necessitating long and time consuming walks by TMs) and also plays havoc with traction gear designed for relatively long and fast runs.

Accordingly, we have a situation whence, (a couple of trains excepted) HSTs are no faster through Cornwall than a 150, although this is also due to low line speeds.  I know that local rail user groups will be outraged by this, but surely, cessation of calls at minor stations by HSTs would speed things up and at much lower cost.  A pair of 158s on sensibly timed services could easily hoover up pax from the smaller stations and offer cross platform HST interchange at PLY.  (Yes, I know there are no spare 158s at the moment).


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: Tim on September 30, 2011, 09:22:26
Maxwell is right.

 Rather then up-rating the far west HSTs you would get better more cost effective timings by removing stops.  In Devon and Cornwall this could be by introducing more DMU stoppers. 

Too far into Cornwall and the line is too bendy for decent speeds anyway.  and IIUIC at low speeds acceration is more due to gearing than it is to raw power which only becomes important at the upper end of the acceleration curve

As for short platforms slowing journey's down.  A bit of extra concrete is surely cheaper in monetary and envoronmentally than uprating an HST to burn more fuel.   


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: woody on September 30, 2011, 10:01:54
It is a sad reflection of the state of Devon/Cornwalls main rail link to London that some 17 odd years after rail privatisation we are still having this sort of discussion at all in 2011.Only yesterday I caught the 1255 Plymouth to Paddington HST which makes a connection with the 1046 Penzance to Plymouth,a pair of hopelessly inadequate and overcrowded 153s on a so called main line connecting service.My friend who has mobility problems had to stand all the way from St Austell to Plymouth.
 Personally I had enough of the financial disaster and shortcomings that are the hallmark of our privatised railway and so have many other people.


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: grahame on September 30, 2011, 11:03:29
... the 1046 Penzance to Plymouth,a pair of hopelessly inadequate and overcrowded 153s on a so called main line connecting service.My friend who has mobility problems had to stand all the way from St Austell to Plymouth. ...

In many ways I share the frustration ... but there are alternatives - not an expert here, but there's a through HST from Penzance to London about 45 minutes earlier, which offers a quicker end to end journey too.  Would it too have been full and standing from St. Austell?  And from observations the following train (again less that 1 hour forward) is 3 rather that 2 cars. I was looking through the Network Rail CP5 documents, and they're suggesting that if loading is over 80% in general terms, there are bound to be pockets which are overcrowded. Let's hope that a revamp of services doesn't cut down the number of trains retained from scrapping to a bare minimum, but rather uses the opportunity to add more seats in total.


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: Tim on September 30, 2011, 11:26:45
Let's hope that a revamp of services doesn't cut down the number of trains retained from scrapping to a bare minimum, but rather uses the opportunity to add more seats in total.

I share this hope. 

It would be an ideal opportunity to add an extra carriage to the retained HSTs too.  That ought to be a no-brainer cost-wise.  The capital costs ought to be merely equal to the cost of defering cashing in on the scrap value of the coach for a few years and the running cost ought to be extra fuel and maintence only (no more operation staff would be needed) which on a growing railway where overcrowding contrains further growth should be more than offset by extra fare revenue.

BR would have done the calculation like that and concluded it could lengthen the trains without huge extra costs, but you just know that under our present system the only way the HSTs would be lengthened would be at huge cost to the tax-payer 


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: Tim on September 30, 2011, 11:35:35
Personally I had enough of the financial disaster and shortcomings that are the hallmark of our privatised railway and so have many other people.

Devon and Cornwall's tragedy is that a real difference could be made to passengers and the economy by some improvemenst that in the great scheme of things would be small scale.  A few lengthened platforms and HSTs and a dozen extra units would make a huge difference.  We can afford to spend Billions on something like Crossrail but when it comes to relatively small amounts of money, we are told that schemes are unaffordable. 

A sensible government would go for the easy wins first and adding a handful of new units to Devon and Cornwall (and for places like Melksham) would transform services for a signifiant number of people for money that in the great scheme of things is peanuts   


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: Rhydgaled on September 30, 2011, 18:32:34
Regarding the Intercity 225s, yes it would be pretty daft and almost unworkable to drag one with the 91 still on. However, I think swapping the locomotive for a diesel would be a very good idea. Of course there never was a suitable diesel locomotive, I think only the class 43 power cars ever had a suitable TDM system. The obvious solution is to create a new batch of class 57s, fitted with TDM, or fit existing 57s with TDM. Swapping a locomotive will probablly take about 8-9mins, too long in most cases but shouldn't be an issue at places like Swansea where there is a 7min dwell time for Intercity services anyway.

As for Intercity 225s not being released from their ECML duties, it seems daft to me to pay for guage clearance for IEP on such a wide range of routes. If the IEP carriges were confined primarilly to the ECML and Padington to Oxford/Bristol/Cardiff instead of being cleared for Penzance, Hereford and Carmarthen (Pembroke Dock isn't confirmed) then IEP could completly replace East Coast's fleet, releasing the 225s and hence providing a means of continued Pembroke Dock trains.


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: Maxwell P on October 02, 2011, 10:57:16
Let's hope that a revamp of services doesn't cut down the number of trains retained from scrapping to a bare minimum, but rather uses the opportunity to add more seats in total.

I share this hope. 

It would be an ideal opportunity to add an extra carriage to the retained HSTs too.  That ought to be a no-brainer cost-wise.  The capital costs ought to be merely equal to the cost of defering cashing in on the scrap value of the coach for a few years and the running cost ought to be extra fuel and maintence only (no more operation staff would be needed) which on a growing railway where overcrowding contrains further growth should be more than offset by extra fare revenue.

BR would have done the calculation like that and concluded it could lengthen the trains without huge extra costs, but you just know that under our present system the only way the HSTs would be lengthened would be at huge cost to the tax-payer 


Great idea in theory, particularly if sets are used as EXPRESS trains.  However, 8 coaches is already a PIA when there are no platform staff at smaller stations.  9+2 further complicates the issue, particularly when SDO is used, although we do already run the occasional 9 coach train.


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: FlyingDutchman on October 02, 2011, 17:53:10
I can't wait to get rid of these 143 units we have on the exmouth line.


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: noddingdonkey on October 02, 2011, 23:21:37
We'll have the 143 on the exmouth branch for several years to come - better learn to love them!


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: gaf71 on October 04, 2011, 08:11:19
We'll have the 143 on the exmouth branch for several years to come - better learn to love them!
Not too sure about that, I think if the agreed amount of 150's eventually arrive at EX TMD, replacing the outgoing 142's, you may see the 143's return to their 'home' depot at SPM.


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: devon_metro on October 04, 2011, 19:17:17
I would have thought that demand for the 143s around Bristol was limited since as I understand it FGW want to run 150s on the Severn Beach line.


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 07, 2011, 22:12:37
Agreed: the preferred stock for the Severn Beach Line is 150s - 143s just can't cope.


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: JayMac on October 08, 2011, 21:13:01
And yet I prefer the 143s on the SVB line.  ;)


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 08, 2011, 23:10:18
I, too, have a certain fondness for the 143s ...  ;)

Last train out of BRI last Thursday night was the 23:06 to Exeter - a well-packed 143. We departed on time, but then we went rather slow until reaching a complete stop somewhere short of Bedminster. After some delay, after announcing that we were 'waiting for a signal to clear', the embarrassed guard then announced that the signaller had apparently sent us down the wrong track, so we would have to reverse and start all over again.  :o

Fair play to the FGW guard for dealing with such an 'off the script' situation with good humour - I even resisted the temptation to suggest to him that he could have used the standing time to carry out a full ticket check.  :P


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: JayMac on October 08, 2011, 23:21:19
Did you go through the old carriage wash line between Temple Meads and Bedminster? I've not coloured that one in yet on my rail atlas.  :P


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 08, 2011, 23:26:48
Hmm. It was pitch black outside the train, so I couldn't be sure - but my personal suspicion was that that was exactly where Control had sent us ...  :o ::)


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: Henry on October 09, 2011, 09:25:03

 In my opinion Morris is saying nothing different than Lib-Dem Younger-Ross was 10 years ago.

 I cannot see much change in the next 10 years either, no criticism on FGW part, considering most
 of the time they are 'farting against a thunderstorm'.


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: gaf71 on October 09, 2011, 10:17:42
Did you go through the old carriage wash line between Temple Meads and Bedminster? I've not coloured that one in yet on my rail atlas.  :P
That was where it went!


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: RichardB on October 09, 2011, 14:41:16
We'll have the 143 on the exmouth branch for several years to come - better learn to love them!
Not too sure about that, I think if the agreed amount of 150's eventually arrive at EX TMD, replacing the outgoing 142's, you may see the 143's return to their 'home' depot at SPM.

Exeter Depot do a great job with the 142/3s and I too think we'll have 143s on Devon local services for a few more years yet.



Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: The SprinterMeister on October 10, 2011, 19:34:53
Hmm. It was pitch black outside the train, so I couldn't be sure - but my personal suspicion was that that was exactly where Control had sent us ...  :o ::)
I very much doubt it. There isn't a main aspect signalled route available for the move towards the old washer or Carriage line.


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: The SprinterMeister on October 10, 2011, 22:33:09
Did you go through the old carriage wash line between Temple Meads and Bedminster? I've not coloured that one in yet on my rail atlas.  :P
That was where it went!
How odd. Does the driver sign the road? Or was he / she talked past signal B46?


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: gaf71 on October 12, 2011, 08:10:35
Did you go through the old carriage wash line between Temple Meads and Bedminster? I've not coloured that one in yet on my rail atlas.  :P
That was where it went!
How odd. Does the driver sign the road? Or was he / she talked past signal B46?
I believe there may have been some sort of signalling error!


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 12, 2011, 15:58:12
According to the signalling records signal B46 (Down Main starter at Bristol West) only shows a subsidiary aspect with route indication 'C' to the Carriage Washer Line so both a signaller and driver error ::)


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: The SprinterMeister on October 12, 2011, 21:41:33
According to the signalling records signal B46 (Down Main starter at Bristol West) only shows a subsidiary aspect with route indication 'C' to the Carriage Washer Line so both a signaller and driver error ::)
I'd agree with that.


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 12, 2011, 22:25:01
Wow!  I'm impressed that I seem to have got caught up in such a bizarre combination of circumstances, then!  :o

My comment remains, however: congratulations to the youthful conductor for dealing so professionally with such an unexpected start to his journey!  ;)


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: JayMac on October 12, 2011, 22:37:24
Jealous now.

I ain't gonna colour that line in unless, I too experience a signalling/driver SNAFU.


Title: Re: West needs better deal on transport, says MP (Exeter Express & Echo 26/08/11)
Post by: gaf71 on October 13, 2011, 09:25:39
According to the signalling records signal B46 (Down Main starter at Bristol West) only shows a subsidiary aspect with route indication 'C' to the Carriage Washer Line so both a signaller and driver error ::)
I realised that, but as a driver myself, was not going to admit that we make mistakes! ;)



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