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Title: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: grahame on August 19, 2011, 15:06:16 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14580224
Quote Many rural railway lines have seen a huge increase in popularity in the last three years, the rail industry says. Operators say journey numbers on some lines in Cornwall and Derbyshire almost doubled between 2007-08 and 2010-11. The industry puts the success partly down to the "staycation" effect, with people choosing to holiday at home instead of going abroad. Many of the fastest-growing branch lines connect to seaside resorts and towns, and show spikes during summer. The Association of Train Operating Companies (Atoc) says there are now around 40 million local and rural rail journeys made each year. The 10 branch lines with the biggest percentage growth saw total journeys increase from 4.5m to nearly 7m between April 2008 and March 2011. Atoc collects data for the 27 stretches of track designated as "community rail routes" by the Department for Transport - typically low-speed, countryside routes provided by one operator. ... Interestingly, although the headline is "rural" that word "local" is used too ... and the top growth services are listed as follows: Truro - Falmouth: 90.6% Bristol Temple Meads - Severn Beach: 90.3% Derby - Matlock: 86.2% Arun Valley line: 53.1% Par - Newquay: 52.6% Good to see three sets of results like that from FGW Land ... and I note that all lines their lines that are in the list are ones that have had service improvements. Am I allowed to suggest another line which - if the service level was increased to an appopriate level - should show growth of over 100% and top the table? ;D Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: ChrisB on August 19, 2011, 15:43:42 Not quite so picuresque, eh, Chris?!! :-)
There's a video report on the BBC website that I've seen, via a twitter this morning. Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: Tim on August 19, 2011, 16:55:35 One wonders how many of these branchline passengers continued onto the (profitable) mainline who otherwise might not have done so?
If you want to invest in getting more people to buy your lucrative mainline tickets there is a good arguement that you might actually get a good return by investing on the local feeder lines where the amounts of money needed are relatively low. This must apply especially to the local line Grahame has in mind due to its proximity to London Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: ChrisB on August 19, 2011, 17:06:34 But is the capacity there?
Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: eightf48544 on August 19, 2011, 17:36:23 Capacity is a problem over many parts of the network. Grahame's line is single track thoughout with no passing loops, thus a train running late in one direction will cause a train in the other direction to have to wait on a main line.
Thus to be on the safe side a large margin between trains in opposite directions is required. Thus reducing the potential frequency of service. Add in few freight trains as well and the capacity for passenger traffic is further reduced. Plus of course not forgetting the shortage of stock to cover both the the extra passengers and/or a more frequent service. Any potentialy spare units released by say the 172s are already in high demand to agument services, see other posts on the board. Plus we still can't scrap the 14Xs. Thus the only way one line can get a more frequent service/longer trains is by robbing Peter to pay Paul. Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: Chris from Nailsea on August 19, 2011, 18:35:51 Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: ChrisB on August 19, 2011, 19:04:20 Sorry, that was aimed at Grahame!
Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: grahame on August 19, 2011, 19:23:58 But is the capacity there? Yes. ;) We know where the various capacity limits are and the elements of TransWilts Rail have been and continue to work together to move towards an appropriate service that's within the limits now, and post electrification too. Thanks to rail industry professional report work rather than our own workings, so it does stand up. There will be need for some associated provision in terms of capacity, such as the provision of additional road (private and public) interchange facilities, and it's highly likely that ticketing facilities will need to be enhanced for certain departure points. Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: Electric train on August 19, 2011, 19:24:07 Hopefully there will be a substantial traffic growth on the Marlow Donkey on Sunday :o
Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: bobm on August 19, 2011, 23:11:14 Dear oh dear the good old BBC using words like staycation - whatever happened to the English Language..... ???
Hoping to go on the Falmouth line tomorrow or possibly the St Ives... Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: JayMac on August 19, 2011, 23:35:31 Short video news item about the Liskeard-Looe line with the quoted news item (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14580224) as well.
I'd put the Severn Beach figures down partly to the improved revenue collection. The work done by Severnside CRP and FoSBR has no doubt helped as well. The line doesn't really benefit from that much tourist traffic - I've not considered a 'staycation' at Severn Beach! Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: Electric train on August 20, 2011, 08:01:17 I blame Micheal Portillo for this ;D
Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: smokey on August 21, 2011, 14:22:54 The 90.6% increase on Truro-Falmouth line,
Would that increase be BEFORE this years New Truro Gate line? Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: LiskeardRich on August 21, 2011, 16:46:40 It is based on a years figures, so based on the gates being less than a year old, as a minimum the start of the figures were pre gate installation. Potentially depending on when the figures date from it could be more pre gate than post gate, so a larger increase to come in the next set of figures!
Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: RichardB on August 22, 2011, 15:38:49 The 90.6% is the rise between the 2007/8 financial year (April - March) and 2010/11 one. Given the gates didn't become operational until this January, most of the rise came before the gates.
So far this calendar year, the Maritime Line has seen 18.1% more journeys than last year. This year's total for the first 7 periods (28 weeks, Jan to July) of 299,562 journeys is already more than the full year totals for years 2001 to 2008. Only 2009 and 2010 were more. Wasn't all the good publicity on Friday great..... Richard Burnngham, Devon & Cornwall Rail Partnership Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: Tim on August 22, 2011, 16:06:11 But is the capacity there? More generally, on rural routes their may not be the track capacity, but as the trains are currently so short, they ought to be the routes where an extra carriage could be added relatively easily. One of McNulty's recomendations was that UK trains need to be longer (therefore getting better productivity out of the path and the driver). Longer trains and more passengers ought to be able to improve the economics of branchlines without the kind of huge investments in capacity needed where mainlines are at maximum capacity. Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: smokey on August 23, 2011, 20:33:07 I was on the Falmouth Line on Monday, both Trains on the Branch were Class 150 (2 car units), hopefully this is to become the Standard.
Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: LiskeardRich on August 23, 2011, 20:35:09 I was on the Falmotuh Line on Monday, both Trains on the Branch were Class 150 (2 car units), hopefully this is to become the Standard. 150128 and 150232 according to my notes from my travels! I traveled on the line on Monday also. Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: phile on August 23, 2011, 21:15:14 The suggestion of a Sunday service in the Winter does not seem to have come to anything (Nothing on Journey Planner) and which could perhaps be justified in view of this growth. Costs would no doubt preclude this.
The topic was discussed earlier on the Cornwall Board. Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: LiskeardRich on August 23, 2011, 21:15:54 Falmouth currently has all year round sunday services.
Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: jester on August 24, 2011, 00:08:12 It just doesnt start early enough in the day on a sunday. By the time you get to Truro for a connection its midday. This is what needs addressing.
Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: grahame on August 24, 2011, 06:18:10 It just doesnt start early enough in the day on a sunday. By the time you get to Truro for a connection its midday. This is what needs addressing. Any idea why it doesn't start earlier? 1. Lack of availability of the line to the train operator? 2. A theory / case made that no-one would use it? 3. Past trials that didn't generate as much traffic as was hoped? 4. Not in the SLC2 and no-one has stepped forward to subsidise a presumed loss? It's interesting to see that the 09:08 Portsmouth to Cardiff on Sundays is noted "Seat Reservations Recommended" ... Serious comments / thoughts welcomed on this as a general subject Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: RichardB on August 24, 2011, 10:00:37 The later start on a Sunday is to allow Network Rail daylight patrolling time in Winter and dates right back to the introduction of all year Sunday Services in, I think, 2002.
Given the massive amount of maintenance work done since then, and the great increase in passenger numbers, hopefully this can be looked at again in the new franchise. Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: grahame on August 24, 2011, 11:13:40 The later start on a Sunday is to allow Network Rail daylight patrolling time in Winter and dates right back to the introduction of all year Sunday Services in, I think, 2002. Given the massive amount of maintenance work done since then, and the great increase in passenger numbers, hopefully this can be looked at again in the new franchise. Thanks - that sounds to be a logical explanations and mirrors what I had heard with regard to the Heart of Wessex line to Weymouth. First arrival in Weymouth - 10:42 in summer, mid afternoon(?) in winter. A silly follow up question ... (and I think you're asking it to some extent, Richard) - is such daylight patrolling really needed these days? I'm minded that the first Bristol to London via Bath expresses leave soon after 07:30 and I would have thought that there would be more rather than less need to check out higher speed lines. Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: RailCornwall on August 24, 2011, 13:05:05 Daylight patrolling seems to be an anacronysm, how do continental operators with their consistent identical seven day timetabling perform this function?
Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: paul7575 on August 24, 2011, 13:26:36 Daylight patrolling seems to be an anacronysm, how do continental operators with their consistent identical seven day timetabling perform this function? Well the French at least have a close down in the middle of the day for patrolling - known as 'white space', IIRC. Our own WCML has 'daylight floodlighting' being progressively fitted at all the major junctions, to allow examination of critical areas overnight - and far more use is intended of track recording cameras mounted on in service trains, eg the 379s on Anglian routes being the first with OHLE cameras, and low level forward facing TV... Paul Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: Maxwell P on September 10, 2011, 13:23:50 The 90.6% increase on Truro-Falmouth line, Would that increase be BEFORE this years New Truro Gate line? Allegedly, 600+ 'NEW' journeys per day have been counted since gatelines were installed. Not that I am accusing the good folk of Falmouth and Pernryn of fare dodging :-) Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 10, 2011, 20:53:56 No need to. :-X
Chris. :o Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on September 10, 2011, 21:59:41 how are station usage figures counted at stations without barriers? is it just from point to point ticket sales?
Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: Trowres on September 11, 2011, 00:11:13 Yes, with some estimation required, for example to cover the number of journeys made on season tickets & tickets with non-specific destinations. More details can be found in http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/stn_usage_report_0910.pdf (http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/stn_usage_report_0910.pdf).
These figures are sometimes supplemented by real counts at stations and on-train. Neither method is perfect. :-\ Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: RichardB on September 11, 2011, 20:00:22 Trowres is absolutely right about the station usage figures. The branch line journey figures quoted are different in that they are simply ticket sales to/from branch line stations plus a manual addition for the Tamar Valley and Tarka Line Carnets.
Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: LiskeardRich on September 11, 2011, 21:08:50 The 90.6% increase on Truro-Falmouth line, Would that increase be BEFORE this years New Truro Gate line? Allegedly, 600+ 'NEW' journeys per day have been counted since gatelines were installed. Not that I am accusing the good folk of Falmouth and Pernryn of fare dodging :-) This doesnt surprise me. I live in Penryn, and the number of times i've seen it impossible for the guard to get around, and then the crowds use to walk out the end by the level crossing avoiding the booking office. Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: Maxwell P on September 11, 2011, 22:01:10 The 90.6% increase on Truro-Falmouth line, Would that increase be BEFORE this years New Truro Gate line? Allegedly, 600+ 'NEW' journeys per day have been counted since gatelines were installed. Not that I am accusing the good folk of Falmouth and Pernryn of fare dodging :-) This doesnt surprise me. I live in Penryn, and the number of times i've seen it impossible for the guard to get around, and then the crowds use to walk out the end by the level crossing avoiding the booking office. Exactly! and...apart from the revenue issue, Truro is also a much safer station to dispatch from as 'visitors' are now severely restricted. We may yet see the Penalty Fare zone extended to Penzance and that station gated to boot, but nothing concrete at present. Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: FarWestJohn on September 12, 2011, 09:07:08 The growth would be even more on the Falmouth branch if you could purchase a ticket. Yet again at Perranwell on Saturday I boarded the train and sat there holding the correct fare but no one came around. This happens even more often since the gates have been installed at Truro. I normally purchase a return on the way back but on Saturday I was only going one way. Both branch trains were single 153s and not packed perhaps the guards ticket machine was not working?
On a Sunday recently when no one came around I counted 24 passengers that got on at Penryn and Penmere who were not asked to pay. As First are so hot with there penalty fare scheme perhaps there ought to be a similar system set up so that passengers could log when no one comes around to collect fares? It is pretty obvious that the passenger numbers quoted for branch travel are considerably less than reality. Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: LiskeardRich on September 12, 2011, 09:18:38 indeed Farwestjohn, i'd say from my trips into Falmouth, from Penryn 50% of passengers do not pay as no machine/ office at either end as you know, and impossible for guard to get round to everyone in 8-9 minutes!
Title: Re: Growth in rural line traffic Post by: Maxwell P on September 12, 2011, 11:40:59 Very valid points made in the above posts. AFAIK, there are plans to introduce Ticket Vending Machines at FMT and PYN, but I don't know when. It must also be extremely frustrating not to be able to purchase tickets on train. I totally agree, there is no point in banging on about fare evaders when simple steps to allow tickets to be sold are not being taken. I will refer this thread to an RPI colleague.
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