|
Title: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: Chris from Nailsea on July 25, 2011, 11:56:10 From the Mirror (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/07/25/train-driver-caught-reading-newspaper-at-60mph-115875-23295001/):
Quote Train driver suspended after being caught reading newspaper at 60mph, on commuter train With his paper spread across the dashboard of a speeding commuter train, a lone driver appears to take his eyes off the controls. The terrifying image was taken as he raced out of a tunnel around 60mph ^ allegedly at the expense of passenger safety. Instead of focussing on driving the train and the track signals ahead, he looked like he was catching up on the day^s news. Now shocked bosses have suspended the First Great Western driver while they carry out an investigation. Jim Hales, 64, who took the photo, said: ^I was completely stunned. It looks so dangerous. He was apparently responsible for driving a train full of people. That takes every ounce of someone^s concentration or else it could be a total disaster.^ The high-speed train, which had set off from Plymouth at 5.53am on July 4, is usually packed with hundreds of people by the time it reaches Paddington, London. The shot was taken earlier this month at Coryton tunnel close to Dawlish, Devon, at 6.37am. First Great Western traced the driver using the train^s ID number ^ along with details provided by our witness. One former train driver said: ^A driver should be constantly adjusting the speed of the train. They should also be on a constant look-out for signals, whether they are green or red. If a driver runs through a signal by accident then it could potentially cause the train to crash. It takes a driver^s full attention to drive safely.^ First Great Western said: ^First hand this photograph is frankly astonishing and appears to show behaviour that falls way short of the professional standards we expect from our train drivers. He has not driven a train since we were alerted and remains suspended.^ - DO you know this driver? Call our newsdesk free on 0800 282 591. Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: IndustryInsider on July 25, 2011, 11:56:49 A FGW driver has been caught on camera reading a newspaper near Dawlish.
Note that the actual photo itself isn't on the link - I'm sure it will be printed somewhere soon. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/train-driver-seen-reading-paper-092129631.html (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/train-driver-seen-reading-paper-092129631.html) There are still a tiny minority of people who take risks that let the vast majority of the driving grade down. For the record 'cab discipline' especially regarding mobile phones being switched off at all times when in the cab, has been a prominent topic in briefings, posters, and so on over the last few years. Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: IndustryInsider on July 25, 2011, 11:57:36 Sorry, Chris - you beat me to it by 39 seconds! Feel free to merge...
Edit note: Topics now merged. CfN. Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: ChrisB on July 25, 2011, 12:06:25 It is on Chris's Mirror link at the top of this thread.
Truly shocking, but we must be careful not to tar every driver. THey are a professional bunch. Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: Electric train on July 25, 2011, 13:26:39 The Southall crash 19 September 1997 was in part due to the driver "packing his bag" also the AWS and ATP were faulty
Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: inspector_blakey on July 25, 2011, 15:24:11 Small technical point... At Southall the ATP was not faulty. It was switched off because driver Harrison was overdue for refresher training in its use.
Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: LiskeardRich on July 25, 2011, 21:56:21 Photo in todays Mirror of the driver reading the paper! seen that whilst browsing round the papers at work on my break, we have in our staff room whatever other staff have left, and i was cutting it tight and didnt have time to get my own paper this morning!
Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: bobm on July 25, 2011, 23:05:40 While not condoning a driver reading a newspaper I do object when newspapers use expressions like "speeding commuter train". There is no evidence he was running over line speed.
It's sloppy journalism. Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: Sprog on July 26, 2011, 00:06:15 There is also no evidence that he was atually 'reading' the paper.....
This is the problem with the "spotter police" they take a 1 second snap of a 12hour day and then cant wait to sell it if there is even the slightest hint that something is not right (even if they need to fib a bit to do this) There are loads of reasons that could explain the picture: The train is stood at a red Folding the paper to swat a fly or wasp Folding paper to plug a draughty window or door (the tunnel would have amplified this noise) Folding paper to make a sunshade Picking up a paper that had blown off the desk due to the suction of the tunnel or the harsh airflow that the HST power car A/Cs put out. The cash hungry spotter fakes it completely........ >:( In realty, not one of them are unsafe if the driver knows the road well. Drivers will regularly check their diagrams on the move to see if they are on time & scheduled to stop at the next station. So on the face of it this is more than likely nothing unsafe or worth bleeting about, but since a snapper has snapped it they must get their blood money so they sell it to a tabloid and let the tabloid make up whatever headline they want >:( :( ....and people wonder why staff are often hostile towards spotters? Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: Sprog on July 26, 2011, 00:07:32 Pictures btw:
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/07/25/article-2018465-0D277F9C00000578-617_634x350.jpg) (http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/07/25/article-2018465-0D2780ED00000578-595_634x523.jpg) Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: IndustryInsider on July 26, 2011, 00:16:42 'Sprog' does make some possible alternative explanations, though I have to say the position of his hands and head does make it look like he's reading it, rather than about to swat a fly. I guess the outcome of his suspension and subsequent hearings will decide whether he's guilty or not.
Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: devon_metro on July 26, 2011, 00:51:44 The train is stood at a red Whilst I generally agree with you it's not anything too much to worry about, this particular scenario is not applicable since there are no signals where the photo was taken. It is my belief that he is reading the paper - the location of his hands suggests so. Do I care? - not particularly. Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: LiskeardRich on July 26, 2011, 00:54:47 to me if the train was travelling at such speed, surely the picture would be blurry, and not so perfect.
photos of movement at speed will create slightly blurry effect. is there any evidence the train is moving, is there anyone else in control we cant see from that one photo? the zoomed in potentialy photoshopped picture above isnt strong enough evidence to me! Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: Ollie on July 26, 2011, 00:57:34 Depends on the camera, there are some good cameras out there, a colleague of mine has one, and took pictures on an hst passing through Ealing BW and it came out very clear.
Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: Phil on July 26, 2011, 07:05:46 I don't suppose there's a possibility that this driver was actually sat at the tail end of the train when the photo was taken? i.e. not actually driving it at all?
Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: Brucey on July 26, 2011, 07:06:44 White lights on, so this was the front end
Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: Tim on July 26, 2011, 09:52:02 Isn't there a "dead mans handle" that woudl make it impossible to use two hands to read a paper whilst the train was moving?
The driver certainy needs a talking to even if he is only guilty of alarming the public by looking like he is reading a newspaper at the controls, but we should wait for some mroe facts before jumping to any other conclusions. Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: ChrisB on July 26, 2011, 10:23:03 So on the face of it this is more than likely nothing unsafe or worth bleeting about, but since a snapper has snapped it they must get their blood money so they sell it to a tabloid and let the tabloid make up whatever headline they want >:( :( Rubbish - my money's on dismissal. He's definitely got a case to answer.... Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: Sprog on July 26, 2011, 10:41:40 There is no dead mans 'handle', but there is a foot pedal they must keep depressed and release and re-apply every 60 seconds or so.
So on the face of it this is more than likely nothing unsafe or worth bleeting about, but since a snapper has snapped it they must get their blood money so they sell it to a tabloid and let the tabloid make up whatever headline they want >:( :( Rubbish - my money's on dismissal. He's definitely got a case to answer.... Judge, Jury and Executioner....this is a persons livelihood you are writing off here in a single sentence..... Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: ChrisB on July 26, 2011, 11:01:07 He's definitely got a case to answer.... Not if he can answer it. But there is the case that he has got his emplyers bad press. Suggest even handling a newspaper while in control of train is bad idea. You can be disciplined by most employers for bringing them into disrepute. Any car driver doing that (opening a paper across their sterring wheel) even while stationary at traffic lights could expect a ticket from any passing police officer. Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: broadgage on July 26, 2011, 13:59:28 Certainly looks bad, even if there is some inocent explanation.
IMHO, reading a newspaper is only acceptable if the train is stationary and expected to remain so for some time. Ive seen drivers watching a DVD in the cab, or reading, fine IMHO on an engineering train that is stationary, with the brake on, but no way if moving. I am aware of a case of a driver who APPEARED to be drinking beer in the cab, reported by a passenger. The police met the train at the next stop and interviewed and breath tested the driver. The test was negative, and the driver stated that he regularly used a washed-out Grolsch beer bottle for drinking water. A second beer bottle also containing water was in the drivers bag. I was on the train and was asked to make a statement confirming that the driver had been seen filling beer bottles with water on the platform. The train was cancelled and much delay caused. I believe that a memo or instruction was issued shortly afterwards stating that bottles previously used for alcoholic drink should never be re-used for water or soft drinks. Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: IndustryInsider on July 26, 2011, 14:11:02 Drinking from a beer bottle in view of the public? How blindingly obviously a bad idea is that? ::)
Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: ChrisB on July 26, 2011, 14:55:34 'Reading' a paper in full view of the public is about the same!
Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: The SprinterMeister on July 26, 2011, 18:45:56 There is no dead mans 'handle', but there is a foot pedal they must keep depressed and release and re-apply every 60 seconds or so. So on the face of it this is more than likely nothing unsafe or worth bleeting about, but since a snapper has snapped it they must get their blood money so they sell it to a tabloid and let the tabloid make up whatever headline they want >:( :( Rubbish - my money's on dismissal. He's definitely got a case to answer.... Judge, Jury and Executioner....this is a persons livelihood you are writing off here in a single sentence..... Personally I think debate on the subject should be confined only to those of you who can say honestly you have never done anything remotely dangeous, illegal or silly like using your (non hands free) mobile phone while driving a motor vehicle. Which is far more dangerous than what is alledged to have happened here. Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: Rob S on July 26, 2011, 19:14:14 to me if the train was travelling at such speed, surely the picture would be blurry, and not so perfect. photos of movement at speed will create slightly blurry effect. is there any evidence the train is moving, is there anyone else in control we cant see from that one photo? the zoomed in potentialy photoshopped picture above isnt strong enough evidence to me! So you think it's possible to photoshop a newspaper in to the picture but at the same time not possible for a camera to shoot at 1/1000 of a second or faster? How much blur do you think a train travelling at no more than 60mph is going to create when photographed at shutter speeds of even 1/125 of a second? Why was I looking at the pics I was taking of a hovering Apache helicopter at the RIAT, miffed that I couldn't get a speed slow enough to create ANY motion blur in the main rotor but fast enough to have the rest of the helicopter sharp because of camera shake? Other possibilities..... - He's just thrown up over the control panel and he's covering up the mess with a newspaper as the sight of the vomit might make him throw up again. - He's covering the controls because he's just about to open a can of Coke that he knows only just fell on to the floor and it's going to spray everywhere when he opens it. - He's gift wrapping the controls because he knows the driver taking over at Exeter is celebrating his x0th year of driving that day. -It's a map, he's just checking where he is on the route. - He's going to use it to shield his identity from the strange woman at Dawlish station that is always stalking him. Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: TerminalJunkie on July 26, 2011, 20:46:56 So you think it's possible to photoshop a newspaper in to the picture but at the same time not possible for a camera to shoot at 1/1000 of a second or faster? A train travelling at 60mph will travel 1.056 inches in 1/1000th of a second. A digital camera's JPEG conversion algorithm will almost certainly reduce any blur to an imperceptible level. Other possibilities..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occams_razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occams_razor) Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: The Grecian on July 26, 2011, 21:09:29 If it's any help, that definitely appears to be the north end of Coryton Tunnel, the second tunnel west from Dawlish. There's a viewpoint on the clifftop. If you type 'Coryton Cove, Dawlish' into Google Maps and click on the first option, you can see roughly where the photographer would have been. There's also a better view if you request street view on the map itself.
It shows the photographer wouldn't have been close enough to see what the driver was doing. I don't know enough about cameras to guess what effect the distance would have had on the image. Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: Rob S on July 26, 2011, 21:29:48 It shows the photographer wouldn't have been close enough to see what the driver was doing. And the tunnel in the picture would indicate he'd have no time to see what the driver was doing to even decide to take the picture of it. It's a pretty unremarkable view and moment until you see the paper by chance when you are going through the pics once you've stuck them on the computer. Maybe the photographer regularly checks what the driver is doing or simply spotted it as he zoomed in to the front of the train to check for sharpness. Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: ChrisB on July 27, 2011, 05:29:30 The latter would be my guess,
Bear in mind the train is coming towards the photographer, hence the movement would be minimal, just the speed of the auto-focus would need to be quick Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: dog box on July 27, 2011, 09:56:36 you cannot draw comparisions with driving a Train to a Motor Vehicle, Trains are not driven on line of sight but to signals, therefore any Driver with route knowledge knows the speed restrictions and braking points etc .
Its a stupid thing to do and i wouldnt condone it, but people need to have some idea of what driving a train is all about before making stupid ill informed comments Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: ChrisB on July 27, 2011, 10:57:19 It still involves keeping your eyes on the route ahead though - for obstructions, etc.
So yes, you can compare. My point being that the vehicle driver would get a ticket for doing that - a train driver, with the added responsibility of his passengers, should lose his job if found guilty. Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: pbc2520 on July 27, 2011, 12:58:47 I expect the unions will be demanding his instant dismissal, being as safety conscious as they are...
Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: vacman on July 27, 2011, 15:14:39 I expect the unions will be demanding his instant dismissal, being as safety conscious as they are... Yeah right, the unions have the biggest monopoly and closed shop in the country, they only care about safety when it suits them.Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: ChrisB on July 27, 2011, 15:21:24 I think perhaps there was an invisible sarcastic smiley on the end of that post, vacman!
Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: pbc2520 on July 27, 2011, 16:56:58 I think perhaps there was an invisible sarcastic smiley on the end of that post, vacman! Indeed there was! In this case, I'm expecting a deafening silence. Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: gaf71 on July 27, 2011, 18:30:53 It still involves keeping your eyes on the route ahead though - for obstructions, etc. The very major difference is, that if you see an obstruction 200 yds in front of your train, when you are doing 70mph, you are still going to hit it, albeit at a slightly reduced speed, whereas in a road vehicle you may have an opportunity to take evasive action. As a previous poster has said, it's all about route knowledge and signalling, there is no way a train driver can concentrate on the line ahead for 100% of his driving time, it's too mentally draining. (This said, I do not condone the actions of the driver in the photo, nor am I trying to defend him)So yes, you can compare. My point being that the vehicle driver would get a ticket for doing that - a train driver, with the added responsibility of his passengers, should lose his job if found guilty. Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: dog box on July 28, 2011, 10:36:31 gaf 71.....you are absolutely spot on.
Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: gaf71 on July 28, 2011, 11:06:05 gaf 71.....you are absolutely spot on. Thanks dog box, it's probably because it's what we do every day!Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: ChrisB on July 28, 2011, 11:07:27 What, read papers??!!!
Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: 12hoursunday on July 28, 2011, 18:14:17 To the Guys and Gals who wonder that due to lack of blurriness in the photo that the train was actually moving, is all I can say is the OTMR download will or will not prove this, and yes a download will have been done.
Mess Room discussions have also indicated that station CCTV is being looked at to see if the paper was being read further down the line. Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: Henry on July 29, 2011, 07:43:17 Wouldn't have happened in the steam days. (the paper would have caught alight). Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: broadgage on July 29, 2011, 09:16:25 Drinking from a beer bottle in view of the public? How blindingly obviously a bad idea is that? ::) Not very sensible ! It was many years ago. The train in question was loco hauled one from Waterloo to Exeter, which dates it somwhat. The driver filled the beer bottles with water at Salisbury, and the police met the train at Tisbury. Great delay was caused whilst another driver came by road from Salisbury. I dont know if the driver was refused permission to continue, or declined to do so. It would seem in order to continue driving following a negative breath test. Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: smokey on July 29, 2011, 18:45:20 I expect the unions will be demanding his instant dismissal, being as safety conscious as they are... Yeah right, the unions have the biggest monopoly and closed shop in the country, they only care about safety when it suits them.There's Now a lot of Staff working on the Railway who are NON Union. Hardly a closed shop Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: vacman on July 30, 2011, 22:00:03 I expect the unions will be demanding his instant dismissal, being as safety conscious as they are... Yeah right, the unions have the biggest monopoly and closed shop in the country, they only care about safety when it suits them.There's Now a lot of Staff working on the Railway who are NON Union. Hardly a closed shop Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: gaf71 on September 08, 2011, 19:23:37 The driver involved in this story was dismissed last week, but has since been reinstated on appeal.
Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: ChrisB on September 08, 2011, 19:51:09 Wonder what the grounds for appeal were?
Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: inspector_blakey on September 08, 2011, 19:55:48 Shot in the dark, but it may be an anagram of SEFLA...
Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: JayMac on September 08, 2011, 20:10:02 Fleas? ;) ;D
Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: Btline on September 08, 2011, 22:20:52 Shouldn't that info be put in the Frequent Posters Club? Otherwise it may be the headline tomorrow...
Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 08, 2011, 22:58:01 Hmm. There's nothing to identify the individual involved, so I'm inclined to leave things as they are. ;)
Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: Tim on September 09, 2011, 09:31:59 Wonder what the grounds for appeal were? I wonder what the grounds for dismissal were (ie, was he really reading the paper (dangerous) or was he guilty of the lesser crime of appearing to be reading it (merely foolish)) Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: The SprinterMeister on September 09, 2011, 23:01:55 Hmm. There's nothing to identify the individual involved, so I'm inclined to leave things as they are. ;) Quite. Obviously there are a large number of people who are aware of the drivers identity (including myself) and it doesn't looks as if the Mirror (or anyone outside the industry) is going to be told, simply because there is no 'need to know'. Best let both sides learn something from this episode, there are no victors in this other than a victory for commonsense over knee jerk reaction. Title: Re: Train driver caught reading newspaper at 60mph (25 July 2011) Post by: Maxwell P on September 10, 2011, 13:10:56 Hmm. There's nothing to identify the individual involved, so I'm inclined to leave things as they are. ;) Quite. Obviously there are a large number of people who are aware of the drivers identity (including myself) and it doesn't looks as if the Mirror (or anyone outside the industry) is going to be told, simply because there is no 'need to know'. Best let both sides learn something from this episode, there are no victors in this other than a victory for commonsense over knee jerk reaction. Seconded! This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |