Great Western Coffee Shop

As discussed in another thread, FGW is ending it's franchise earlier due to the clause.

Question : If First Group dont win it again, who would you like to run it and why?

I would like to see Arriva (Deutsche Bahn owned) run it but under the german Deutsche Bahn name. The reason behind this is I think that if it had the german name and maybe bought in the management from Germany to run it, I believe they could have more guts to fight against network rail for improvements. Also I like the colour scheme!

Can't wait to hear other opinions on who should run the franchise in the West.

CentralMan

Do you want to answer your own question in bold, centralman, to start us off.

Thanks for that. I think I have done it correct now!

My first thread :-[ So all new to me!

No, sorry, that's not what I meant....

Can you expand on that, I meant - most TOCs would make a reasonable job.

Why DB? They own CrossCountry & I wouldn't want their management involved in any way! - for example.....

I was on a spur of a good idea at the time and then thought how can I write this correctly.

I have changed the post now to why I think they would do good.

I've always thought Stagecoach have made a good job of SWT so they'd have my vote. I wonder though, just because a company has been successful with one franchise, would they necessarily do a good job with another?

Not from Brighton, i'm not sure if the competition commitees would allow them to have all london-westcountry services

anyone but arriva !!!!! .... reason: i have used xc

Thats because they havent got the good German execs!

Bring some over from Germany to run the franchise and Im sure it would improve!

I wouldnt mind giving Govia a chance, certainly hope it doesnt got to Veolia/Transdev , especially after the way they have run the buses in south wales and treated some of us staff.

personally my money is on first winning the new franchise  (unless they get the east coast franchise)

so here in order i who i think would win the next FGW franchise:

• First
• DB

• Stagecoach
• Govia

Hmm, aren't DB going for West Coast? Would a TOC get two long-distance franchises?

DB are trying to worm their way out of investment with Chiltern, Govia and Stagecoach have destroyed ticket office open hours and culled loads of staff (SWT basically got rid of their entire Revenue Protection team), Arriva are appaling in both XC and ATW, Virgin wouldn't be too bad, Abellio..... well just look at that excuse of a franchise thats called Northern! first are far from perfect but atleast they havent closed every other ticket office, layed off loads off staff and having the balls to basically turn around and say that they got it wrong with FGW and have implemented change to reverse the initial cock up by the bid team! NX are going down the pan aswell, for me it would have to be First again or Virgin (albeit 49% owned by stagecoach!

I doubt winning East coast would be dubbed as a monopoly to prevent them winning GW.

Hmmm, I'm not so sure.

Yes but would first bother again with the Great Western franchise if they won the east coast franchise?

I agree that FGW were bad when they started off, but they have  put their hands up and said they had made a screw up and would do their best to sort it out. They have picked up their act  lately, although a lot of their problems are lack of  rolling stock.

I think whoever gets the next Great western franchise would consider if they get a long enough franchise investing in brand new rolling stock, maybe ordering those 11, 4 carriage class 172's for the Cardiff - Portsmouth Hbr route. This will allow the class 158's to be re-formed back into 2 carriage sets which can run together duirng  busy times forming a 4 carriage train.

The DfT specify the rolling stock policy.  Unless it is a franchise spec requirement no prospective TOC is ever going to voluntarily bring in new stock - it would automatically make their bid the most expensive...

Paul

like the hst's that first purchased?....ok not new but similar principle

Those HSTs are often quoted, but they don't create much of a precedent AFAICS, because they were very much a one off opportunity while there was a surplus - there are not really any more (especially power cars) on the shelf.

A dozen or so new build four car DMUs is a significantly different prospect, because finance for them would only be available if they were to have a guaranteed 30+ years of use somewhere.

Paul

There is a whole new "politics" in the railway which is only just taking shape as such the GW could prove to be an interesting franchise, the DfT will not want to pay the cost of electrification or the new trains so that will be wrapped up in the franchise, there is a risk / possibility of taking some if not all of the devolved NR route under the wing of the franchise winner as a partner relationship or even TUPE, the new NR CEO has / is rewriting to the "rule book"

The DfT never do pay for new trains surely - they just guarantee their use on the Network (or an explicit part of it) over their expected book life. So in the case of IEP they'll have told Agility Trains that X number of diagrams per day will be needed on the GW, and in due course the TOC will have to be contracted through the franchise process to use that many diagrams, or else.

I don't think much will change really.  It's basically just what is happening already with the WCML's new and existing Pendolinos after all.

Paul

I think the DfT may well not be ready to issue the ITT in time to re-let the franchise in 2013. I think it may well suit them to delay until decisions on IEP and GW electrification is finally tied up & contracts at least tendered.

So, what happens in the interim?

How about a Management Contract?

FGW could hardly refuse if asked by the DfT for a year or so, and possibly to the 'other' end date of 2016.

We'll find out by the end of the year, I guess. Which would be when the ITT would be due?

Or Directly Operated Railways. They'll be looking for something to do once the ECML franchise is re-tendered....  ;)

i mean basically its costing the industry more because roscos purchace new trains (they are normally banks!) and then they let the units out to the toc's.... no doubt at a nice little profit!, i find it amusing that the government will dish out student loans the majority of which doesnt actually go on living and studying (im sorry if your the exception to the rule and didnt go out binge drinking every night) and charge no interest.... but something which is vital to the daily running of the country such as the railways is set up so that banks can rob even more cash off us!

Consider all the money that UK plc hasn't got to build new trains though!

Oh, they DO charge intetest on student loans....

i thought they were only charged interest once you earn a certain amount a year?, it doesnt really matter its going off topic but its interest free or very low rate

Northern have handled their franchise very well. It was meant to be a no growth franchise and some quarters thought it would shut down lines but in fact it has boosted use on many rural lines.

Here is just a handful of the achievmnets

-Punctuality - the number of trains on time - has risen from 83% in the year to December 2004, when Northern started, to 91.5% in the year to June 2010.

-The number of passengers travelling with Northern has risen by 34% in five years to 85.5 million - more than double the 33 million carried by British Airways!

-They have invested more than ^25m in improvements to train depots, stations, ticket retailing systems and other facilities that have a direct or indirect benefit to passengers.

-In addition, they have instigated and led partnerships to attract further investment of at least ^80m, some of it from outside the rail or transport industry. (This includes 36 extra 158s, not including centre cars for Blackpool-York)

This shows what a great franchise Northern is. Although it may still be not as good a standard as the others, it is best at improving it's network.

Also Merseyrail, run by the same people is also a top notch franchise, but thats largely due to the influence of Merseytravel.

I think they'd need to go in with someone with IC experience, bith if so, yes - why not?

bambam, im glad that someone has came out and praised northern.... ok they ain't perfect but they do not deserve all the bad press they get! if you conceder the environment (rolling stock- network constraints) i think they do a great job!

Sorry for going OT, but just to correct this - Interest is accrued from day 1 regardless of salary.  You only repay (under current rules) when you hit ^15k salary.  Interest rate charged is lower of bank base rase+1% (so currently 1.5%), or March RPI (unless RPI is negative when the interest rate is 0%).  So yes it's cheapest rate loan going as the theory is, you borrow ^10k, you will only pay back ^10k+inflation.

Northern are a joke, they have stock that hasn't even had a heavy clean, let alone refurb since they took over, they've done their best to kill the 180's that they are "borrowing", they employ agency staff on mass to do basic things such as Revenue Protection, need I go on?

 Hopefully they can run both, small steps, small steps  ;)

Disagree there - the figure involved is far too many ^million to wrap up in a 15-year franchise. Add-ons may well be the deciding factor - extra vehicles to that DfT spec and / or additional wires up the branches maybe....

Your having a laugh! Arriva are, as an employee, the last lot I would want to have it! From a passengers point of view they are probably one of the worst for the standard of customer service provided. Look at Arriva Trains Wales and Cross Country to see why.

But it doesn't follow that all operating divisions within a group are poor. Within DB there's Chiltern and part ownership of the current London Overground franchise. So who's to say DB Great Western would be a bad thing?

Apparently DB in the UK with passanger services has been absorbed by Arriva so potentially the once admired Chiltern services may soon adopt Arriva's way of running things. Hope this does not happen but would not be surprised as even Mr Shooter is now off to pastures new so the omens are not grat

BR bought New Stock and Wrote the Cost off in 7 years, after that stock cost was from Maintenance budget, and works refits kept then going for anything up to 40 years.

Today ROSCO's buy the Stock and lease them for about 10% the build cost every year.
So a NICE little earner when stock is older than 10 years,

If leasing stock is such a rip off, then why did TfL alter their plans?  They originally intended to buy the LO 378s outright - but following a review of the comparative costs decided that it was better to use a ROSCO (albeit a new one to the market, QWRail):


http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/archive/7525.aspx

Paul