Great Western Coffee Shop

I purchased 2 tickets for my travel today to London and I am not happy!

I asked for a First Class ticket from Westbury - London Zone 1,2 & 3 via Warminster and Salisbury. I should have paid ^43.85 (Railcard Discount applied) But the sales advisor told me he could only sell me a ticket to Zone 1, 2 & 3 if I went into Paddington. So I took Westbury to London Terminals via Warminster-Salisbury for ^41.85

So I then asked for a London Underground ticket from Waterloo to Zone 3. I was sold London Terminals - U3* LONDN for ^6.80. I then realised once i'd boarded the train that my railcard discount hadn't been applied to this ticket. But it got worse. When I tried to use it in the barrier for the underground I was told to "Seek Assistance" and a LU advisor confirmed with me that the ticket was not valid for starting the journey in Zone 1 and would have to buy another ticket. >:(

I then went to buy another ticket and I could not for the life of me get the machine to issue me a single to Zones 1 2 and 3. I ended up with a travelcard from zones 1 - 6 for ^5.30 with railcard discount.

So all in all, i'm now ^10.10 down because of an FGW Sales Advisor cock up! Fabulous start to the weekend >:( ::) :o

Best bet will probably be to keep hold of anything you have to buy owing to the error, and take them back requesting a refund.

I believe you've faced a similar problem before, the trout. Sorry to hear you have faced another cock-up.  :(

In the first instance, you need to complain to FGW as it was their employee who failed to sell you the product you asked for. I've checked and there is a ticket as you described. Which I'm sure you know!

Future reference: Ask the clerk to enter ZONE U123* LONDN (or 0791) as the destination and to select the Anytime Day 1st Single, Route: WARMSTER-SALSBRY. Whilst it's handy to know this precise information it shouldn't be behoven of the passenger to provide it.

Include those destination details in your complaint to FGW as well. You should be refunded for any additional expense above the ^43.85 you should've paid and if it were me I'd be asking for that refund by cheque not Rail Travel Vouchers. FGW may try and wriggle out by saying that the subsequent tickets sold in error are not their fault, but it was their clerk's failure in the first place that led to those errors.

Hopefully FGW will refund without too much hassle, but if not then you should inform them you will be escalating the complaint to Passenger Focus pointing out that the failure to sell you the correct ticket is a breach of the rules for impartial retailing - something that is part of their franchise agreement.

It's disappointing that the FGW clerk initially only offered you a ZONE U123* if you went via Paddington. A FGW route where they set the fare and take the lion's share of revenue. Probably not deliberate, but it's the sort of thing which Passenger Focus and the Office of Railway Regulation are there for to prevent.

ATOC's guidelines to rail retail staff are quite clear on the issue of impartial retailing:


Note: TSA = Ticket and Settlement Agreement. An agreement signed by all TOCs which sets out clear obligations for them on the standards they are required to meet with regard to the selling of rail tickets impartially and correctly.

Whilst the cock up is unfortunate, and we all make mistakes sometimes, it is ultimately the customers responsabilty to check they have the correct tickets before leaving the window.

Not 100% certain but can Star terminals issue a through ticket to any underground Zone as railcards do not get discount on the underground portion. Railcard discounts are only valid on all zone (1-6, but also 1-9 with separate conditions) travelcards with a min fare of ^5.30.

Good old fashioned APTIS would have allowed this ticket as the staff could override the fare.

However this would not account for the staff member saying they could issue the ticket on the Any Permitted route.

Also don^t understand why the LUL staff just didn't let you through on the ticket from London Terminals to Zone U3 as the revenue would go to them it just wasn't issued quite right and they could obviously see that it wasn't your error.

Vacman
Whilst the customer has responsibility, what do you do when the clerk refuses to sell you the right ticket?

That may be an issue (paging Ollie!!!) but the fare is listed in the Fares Manual (I'm only going by NFM 08 valid until May 2011 - I don't yet have NFM 09 - so there is a very slight chance that the fare is no longer available):

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/wsb0791.jpg)

But how do you know you've been sold the right tickets unless you ask for a specific type of ticket routed a specific way, most people wouldn't know.

I have some sympathy for the booking clerks the system is so complicated. Plus they get into trouble for selling the wrong cheaper  ticket or a more expensive ticket when there is a cheaper ticket valid on the trains concrned.  I would defy anyone one person to say what is cheapest way of getting from A to B at a particular time of day and day of the week. Where A and B are any two stations on the Network.

Star is more than capable of doing it if the ticket is there. And even if it's not, if you find the fare is in "The Manual" (all Star machines have access to this) then you just do a manual fare on Star.

In terms of railcard discounts on LU services, if the ticket is wholely LU no discount, but if a national rail discount is included it can be applied.

Thanks for that Ollie.  8)

You're a Star (pun intended)  :P ;) ;D

Thanks for the replies ;)

I definately know the fare exists... It will even come up on the Southern Journey Planner for 43.85

There are lots of anomalies on the Warminster Salisbury route. For example you can get Standard Class tickets from Frome routed Warminster Salisbury, But not First Class tickets. Something I have mentioned to SWT about previously. They also have weird excess options from Standard Class to First Class on Westbury - Waterloo tickets. (Where as I posted in another thread, I was quoted 4 different prices >:( )

I find this really irritating to be honest when I ask for tickets like this and then receive a look that suggests i've grown 3 heads >:( A classic example is asking for the Cheapest First Class return between Southampton and London. They will sell you an SWT Ticket. They don't like to tell you about the Sourthern Trains option which is much cheaper but the route is longer (Get a free coffee though ;D ). The usual response is "But no-one goes that way" (What I didn't tell the clerk was that I was actually travelling short to Gatwick Airport but it's cheaper to buy to London Victoria!)

Another way of looking at this though that I should point out. I suffer from an ASD, so I sometimes struggle to explain things and it doesn't always make sense to the person listening. So it could have been a partial error on my part. But to clarify. The Clerk definately said that if they put on Zone U123* it would only display Paddington bound tickets and I would have to buy a seperate ticket for LU if I wanted Waterloo!! >:(

The cheapest ticket to London from Southampton is in fact a Southampton - Brighton ticket routed Not London (valid via Clapham Jn), then a single from Clapham is dead cheap.

Is it really valid via CJ?.....is that not just saying you have to go along the CoastWay?

SOU - BTN is valid via LONDON, CW and WX+LB.

WX permits Southampton - Clapham Junction via Basingstoke.
LB permits Clapham Junction - Brighton via Streatham and Gatwick Airport.

Only a SOU-BTN ticket is actually required as the journey can be broken at GTW.

Thanks Brucey but what language is that?

I did not understand a thing,  I'm still not sure sure what the routings are.

How are the public espected to understand this at least I know roughly what station is on what line and where it's served from.

thetrout was talking about First Class fares. Southampton - London SOUTHERN ONLY is a bargain ^39.40 day return or ^44.40 period return.

Travelling short to CLJ First Class on a SOU-BTN NOT LONDON ticket would cost ^76.60 for both day and period returns. Then there's another ^7.80 to get to and from Waterloo/Victoria.

eightf48544, I think my post was in routeing language :D.  I'm not even sure I understand it myself sometimes.  Most of the public won't have a clue about routeings or that the routeing guide exists.  And why the e in routeings?

My simple advice if you are unsure about a route ... stick it into the National Rail Enquiries website with a via and see what ticket is suggested.  On most occasions, the NRE enquires website is correct with routeing.

I was referring to the part about the railcard discount

Thanks that's good advice. I found out that Selby can be routed direct, via Leeds or York, Off Peak for the same price.

The other bit of advice I'd give about routeings, if you are not sure, is to ask here on the forum in Fare's Fair. I'm more than happy to look through the Routeing Guide on a fellow forum members behalf.

Or you can have a go yourself. Be warned though, The Routeing Guide is an unwieldy, fiendish set of documents designed, in all probability, by the devil himself!

http://www.atoc.org/about-atoc/rail-settlement-plan/routeing-guide

Because that's how you are supposed to spell it; you only take the e out if you're lazy, thick, or American.

According to my copy of the OED, both spellings of the present participle of route are fine. It can be spelt routing or routeing. The former is not referred to as a US spelling. Or one to be used by lazy or thick people.  :P

It is, however, more open to confusion with 'boring holes or grooves in wood using a router', or the present participle of a verb describing something going very wrong on the battlefield.

Although of course in both those cases it's pronounced to rhyme with "trout" rather than "root" ;)

To show Star is able to do it :P

Out of curiosity, someone mentioned earlier that it is the customers responsibility to make sure they have the correct tickets. Maybe I am being naive, but how are the general public supposed to know? Most people don't even know what the routeing guide is (or that one exists), let alone able to work out if the ticket they have been sold (by someone who should know what is correct and what is not correct) is right or not.

One asks?.....or enquires of websites?

Staff are not always correct (as this very thread shows), and the websites are not always correct either (or the staff do not believe the website is correct - theres a thread on another rail forum about someone who bought a ticket online but was told when travelling that it is not valid for his journey, even though they bought it from that ToCs website).

print everything off from websites and they've got to allow you to travel....if you feel unsure. ditto at the ticket office - if you aren't sure, get them to priont out route / timings and add the station stamp.

Well, that is all very well for people, geeks, like us who frequent blogs, but what about the 99.9% of passengers who do not understand routing options, etc, etc. They put their trust in the clerk or the website that they use, and frequently get robbed. My ex travelled this week from Tunbridge Wells to Barnstable and back, and in spite of going in advance to the station at a quiet time to discuss the options in buying her ticket, was sold the 'easy option' at great cost. 

Hmm.  I'll try that, with Jacob at Nailsea & Backwell, tomorrow morning ...  :P

Avantix should be able to print out itineraries, either on the ticket stock (marked clearly 'not valid for travel') or via the bluetooth/wired connection to the card reader and printed on the plain receipt paper.

Not sure that the portakabin at NLS has it's own rubber stamp though!

It's quite a long way to Massachusetts...

Only about 200 miles from Tunbridge, VT though ;)