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All across the Great Western territory => The Wider Picture in the United Kingdom => Topic started by: Chris from Nailsea on May 11, 2011, 13:49:45



Title: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 11, 2011, 13:49:45
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-13360741):

Quote
A train station manager was sacked for moving a shopping trolley from the track fearing a derailment, prompting an angry reaction from villagers.

Ian Faletto, who had worked for South West Trains for 27 years, was based at Lymington station, Hampshire, which has a single-track running through it.

South West Trains said Mr Faletto was dismissed for a "serious safety breach" which was upheld at an appeal hearing.

Residents said he always went the "extra mile for passengers".

The single-track branch line runs between Lymington and Brockenhurst in the New Forest.

The Reverend Alex Russell, vicar of St Mark's Church, Pennington, has started a petition calling for Mr Faletto's reinstatement. "I'm really delighted about how much support there clearly is for Ian and he deserves it because he has always gone the extra mile for passengers," she said. "The station has been immaculate, there are things for the children to do, sweets for them to eat, flowers out every day, he is always dressed beautifully. There's just nothing I can find to criticise about Ian and it appears local people agree with me."

In the past Mr Faletto, who wore a button hole, has won a number of awards for customer service which included Sway station - where he previously worked - being named station of the year.

A South West Trains spokesperson said an employee had been dismissed for a "serious breach of safety".

"This action was taken following a full and thorough internal investigation and the decision was also upheld at an appeal hearing," he said. "Our absolute priority is to run a safe railway for our passengers and staff. All of our employees are aware of the importance of complying with the strict rules governing railway safety, which we have a duty to enforce, and the serious consequences of disregarding them."


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: Brucey on May 11, 2011, 14:00:05
Also reported in the Echo, with the usual array of comments: http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/9019438.Stationmaster_fired__for_removing_trolley_from_railway_/

Given that this line has third rail electrification and a shopping trolley conducts electricity, I would suspect the safest solution would be to call control and get the next train stopped/traction current switched off.


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: Rhydgaled on May 11, 2011, 16:40:26
Also reported in the Echo, with the usual array of comments: http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/9019438.Stationmaster_fired__for_removing_trolley_from_railway_/

Given that this line has third rail electrification and a shopping trolley conducts electricity, I would suspect the safest solution would be to call control and get the next train stopped/traction current switched off.
Would the station manager in question have been likely to get sacked for removing the trolley if the line was not electrified?


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: Electric train on May 11, 2011, 17:09:14
Also reported in the Echo, with the usual array of comments: http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/9019438.Stationmaster_fired__for_removing_trolley_from_railway_/

Given that this line has third rail electrification and a shopping trolley conducts electricity, I would suspect the safest solution would be to call control and get the next train stopped/traction current switched off.
Would the station manager in question have been likely to get sacked for removing the trolley if the line was not electrified?
Yes, station staff are not generally track safety trained, a shopping trolley is unlikely to derail a train.  There are procedures in place to deal with these type of incidents


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: paul7575 on May 11, 2011, 19:11:04
AIUI he wasn't a 'station master' at all - that's media inacuracy for you.

Small stations like Lymington Town are usually single manned by ticket office staff, who are also possibly responsible for general cleanliness as well.  Station management is done on an area basis nowadays.

Paul


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on May 11, 2011, 20:49:39
correct me if im wrong Lymington is the end of the line....

i dont know on one hand health and safety rules do go too far these days

but all he had to do was slip while holding the trolly and would have been frying tonight....... which carry on film was that?


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: inspector_blakey on May 11, 2011, 21:27:33
AIUI he wasn't a 'station master' at all - that's media inacuracy for you.

Somewhat debatable - there was an article about the Lymington branch in Rail going back a few years which made it clear that Mr Faletto was widely (albeit unofficially) known as the Lymington station master. It's certainly true that his involvement in the station went far beyond his duties selling tickets, as he was also maintained the waiting room with books/children's toys etc etc and the floral displays (frequently out of his own pocket), and was responsible mroe or less singlehandedly for the very special and distinctive atmosphere of the town station.


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: Trowres on May 12, 2011, 00:08:03
We do not have the complete facts on this story.

However, we can deal with the postulate that "railway rules are sacrosanct, and their breach is a sacking offence".

It comes to many a rail worker that they have to make a snap decision on whether or not to play by the rule book. Let's just modify the above scenario a little...

Station staff sees pram on track. Possibly occupied. Train due in 1 minute.

What happens next?

Do the following words have any impact?: "As well as reporting the hazard, you must take any other necessary action" (I think there may be an issue here that the "rule book" doesn't apply to station staff - perhaps someone could advise?)

My musings relate to the generality of obstructions on track, and not to the specifics of the Lymington case.


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on May 12, 2011, 00:21:46
well, we could keep changing the variables we could make it on a runway or a motorway... the fact is it was an electrified line and it was a shopping trolly and as you said there are rules, if it was written into the contract that wearing black socks will result in dismissal then guess what...


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: JayMac on May 12, 2011, 03:22:22
correct me if im wrong Lymington is the end of the line....

Lymington (Town) is the penultimate station and the one with the manned ticket office. Lymington Pier is the end of the line.


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: Tim on May 12, 2011, 10:06:08
Well the TOC must not ignore the rule breaking.  They muist take it very serious with giving the chap a dressing down and a formal written warning retrainign or whatever, but what is the piont in sacking him?  it was a mistake or error or judgement rather than something like stealing from the till which would have a moral failing. 


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: ChrisB on May 12, 2011, 10:07:26
Indeed - I would have given him a final written warning & demoted him to a larger station with supervision for a period.


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: Brucey on May 12, 2011, 10:08:50
The Telegraph give some more details: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/8506898/Award-winning-station-manager-sacked-for-removing-trolley-from-track.html

Of particular importance
Quote from: Telegraph
"I was also told that the power hadn't actually been turned off either.
Given the train was not due for thirty minutes, I can't see this ever being considered an "emergency situation".

A comment on the Daily Echo website suggests he has previously received warnings.


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: ChrisB on May 12, 2011, 10:29:33
Indeed, someone left on his own for too long, assuming he can be superman.


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: grahame on May 12, 2011, 17:19:16
Folks ... as the person concerned has been named in the press, I guess there any issues of his privacy have been shattered so there's no sense in sticking with our normal convention of not naming opeational staff.   However ... we certainly seem to be very close to making judgements based on press reports, which are not necessarily accurate and complete ... and it's very unfair (and potenially a problem for the site operator) is we do so.   Can we please desist?


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: JayMac on May 12, 2011, 17:22:18
Some folks are sticking up for him. 550+ signatures on an online petition:

http://www.petitiononline.co.uk/petition/where-is-our-station-master-reinstate-ian-faletto-at-lymington-town/2815


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: ChrisB on May 12, 2011, 17:42:25
Fair request - there are libel laws in this country. I suggest you lock it.


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 12, 2011, 22:44:15
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-13383155):

Quote
MP likens sacked train master to Railway Children scene

An MP has likened the sacking of a station master who said he broke safety laws to move a trolley off a track to a scene from The Railway Children.

Desmond Swayne, Conservative MP for New Forest West, backed a campaign from Lymington residents calling for South West Trains to reinstate Ian Faletto.

It said Mr Faletto was dismissed for a "serious breach of safety" and there had been an internal investigation.

In the novel a character climbs onto the track to warn a train of danger.

Famously played by Jenny Agutter in the 1970 film, Roberta uses her red bloomers as a flag after there had been a landslide.

"She was probably breaking health and safety rules but she was thanked for it," Mr Swayne said. "I think there has to be a sense of proportion in this case and you don't sack a man who has an outstanding record for doing something that he did to protect the public. Perhaps that deserves a reminder of the health and safety rules and a slap on the wrist, but to sack a man?"

Hundreds of people have signed a petition calling for Mr Faletto, who was popular among passengers, to be reinstated.

Mr Faletto is considering taking South West Trains to a tribunal.

The single-track branch line runs between Lymington and Brockenhurst in the New Forest.

Mr Faletto said he arrived for work, noticed a shopping trolley had been thrown onto the line and knew it had to be removed before the first train came. "I went on the track and I removed a shopping trolley. Obviously having a train half an hour later it had to be removed before it hit it or derailed. I went on to the track, I called it an emergency situation. I had asked for the power off and it turns out the power had not been turned off, fortunately I had taken a wooden broom handle."

South West Trains said: "This action was taken following a full and thorough internal investigation and the decision was also upheld at an appeal hearing. Our absolute priority is to run a safe railway for our passengers and staff. All of our employees are aware of the importance of complying with the strict rules governing railway safety, which we have a duty to enforce, and the serious consequences of disregarding them."


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: ChrisB on May 12, 2011, 23:28:31
Chris - after one of yoyr Global Mods asks us to post no further, why encourage us by posting the above.

Undermines the request, doesn't it?


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: Ollie on May 12, 2011, 23:32:21
Actually Graham (who is the admin by the way) pointed out that it's not right to judge the guy based on press reports.

Chris (from Nailsea) has just added a news article from the BBC as it is related.


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: grahame on May 13, 2011, 05:01:37
Chris - after one of yoyr Global Mods asks us to post no further, why encourage us by posting the above.

Undermines the request, doesn't it?

No, my request has not been undermined.   I asked that members desist from "making judgements based on press reports" and explained why. That is a long way short of "post no more".  chris from nailsea's post reports the press - it does not make judgements, nor does it go against the spirit of my request, and I'm 111% happy with it.

If I had wanted no additions to the thread (and in the process if I had wanted to prevent people from going back and changing their words, for which they are responsible - see forum agreement (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1761.0)), I would have locked the thread. I considered it, but didn't.

Actually Graham (who is the admin by the way) pointed out that it's not right to judge the guy based on press reports.

Chris (from Nailsea) has just added a news article from the BBC as it is related.

Exactly so  ;D


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: ChrisB on May 13, 2011, 09:33:46
So, you'd allow any press quote, because the press are always right?


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: grahame on May 13, 2011, 11:16:14
So, you'd allow any press quote, because the press are always right?

Not what I am saying, Chris.

The philosophy is to be broad in what we allow ... and where we have to say "no" or "please desist", it's for specific reasons.  The reason I asked people to desist in this case was because they were getting close to putting themselves, and perhaps the board operators, into a potentially troublesome position - you yourself mentioned Libel.


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on May 13, 2011, 17:07:58
if you quote a newspaper and add links to said article then you are making it clear who wrote the information and where it was published... pointing out these links cant be seen as YOU speculating but simply pointing out a reference source which is in the public domain.... i believe what grahame is trying to tell you is that we as members of this forum should resist taking elements of these news articles and piecing together the story ourselves...which could cause confusion to people just skimming threw this thread

as you have been told in many other posts chris this highlights the need to include references/linkbacks when quoting news reports


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: ChrisB on May 13, 2011, 20:19:57
Don't agree, sorry.

If you repeat a libel originally made elswhere, even by the press, then you are just as guilty as the original publisher, and would be jointly sued with them as party to the offence.

Just because you post the link as well, makes no difference. By copying the text, leads you to be as guilty as the original. Provide only the link and you are in the clear.


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: JayMac on May 13, 2011, 20:34:40
Rather drifting from the point grahame made, ChrisB.

None of the quoted articles do, as far as I can see (although IANAL), contain anything potentially libellous. grahame's point was that passing judgement on those in the articles, be it the member of staff or the employer, could be problematical for the forum administrators. You'll note that grahame's request to desist on making judgements came after a post of yours.....


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 13, 2011, 20:36:14
All I have done, on this topic, is to post two links to the BBC - quoting their wording, acknowledging the source, and without passing my own comment.

If, by doing that, I'm 'repeating a libel originally made elsewhere', I'm in rather good company, I think.


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: ChrisB on May 13, 2011, 20:44:23
No one here has named him.

Indeed, someone left on his own for too long, assuming he can be superman.

Hardly libellous either.

Either we agree not to discuss events / press coverage like this, or we do, and it is moderated if necessary. Neither is this gentlemnan staff any longer.

Indeed, Chris. My point is that I'm suggesting that the owner / mods allowing press quotes needs to consider this quoting the press. What if the News of the Screws had published something salacious aboiut a well known manager? (albeit that isn't a good comparison as that paper is behind a paywall now) - but it makes my point.

Copoying press willynilly without guidelines could invite problems. Providing the link isn't


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on May 13, 2011, 20:45:28
sorry... and i hate to add this tone, but are you telling me that you believe that if you were sat on a bus reading a paper and pointed out an article to the person next to you that you would be guilty of liable? ..... this is grahame's forum he knows what he is doing and he has spoken, you have already had your say on what you believe PLEASE JUST LEAVE IT AND MOVE ON NOW!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: ChrisB on May 13, 2011, 20:53:02
sorry... and i hate to add this tone, but are you telling me that you believe that if you were sat on a bus reading a paper and pointed out an article to the person next to you that you would be guilty of liable? .....

No I'm not - and you are not going to shout at me either. Let's keep this civil.

Pointing it out doesn't open you to libel either. Printing it on a website, even if you are repeating it, does. I'm jusat trying to alert Grahame to the possible problem, civilly.

Which you certainly aren't.


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 13, 2011, 20:56:22
Gentlemen, please ...  ::)

We have now strayed so far off the original subject that I'm going to do exactly what ChrisB asked: I'm now locking this topic.

CfN.  :-X


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: JayMac on November 01, 2011, 14:11:37
In light of recent news, I'm unlocking this topic to update it.

From the guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/nov/01/trolley-dash-railwayman-withdraws-claim):

Quote
'Trolley dash' railwayman withdraws unfair dismissal claim

A railway worker who claimed he was sacked for removing a shopping trolley from the track has withdrawn his claim of unfair dismissal.

Ian Faletto alleged he was sacked after 27 years of service by South West Trains for removing the trolley at Lymington railway station in Hampshire, where he was ticket office clerk, in March. Many local people supported his campaign to get his job back and the New Forest MP, Desmond Swayne, handed a 8,400-strong petition to parliament in support of the award-winning worker.

But after he was presented with new evidence, his counsel advised him to drop his claim, prompting a strongly-worded statement from SWT. It described the allegations by Faletto as "fictitious, Walter Mitty-style claims" and the company stressed he was not paid off.

It said it was angry about the trolley claim, that Faletto's action in stepping on to tracks were "foolhardy", and it was "doubly upsetting that many well-meaning people in the community were so misled".

Faletto had alleged he contacted the signalman to turn off the power and then removed the trolley to prevent an accident. Speaking outside the employment tribunal building in Southampton, the 50-year-old, from Totton, Hampshire, maintained that the trolley was on the railway track. "The way they have treated me after 27 years' momentous service is very disappointing. It's very difficult to fight such a large company. They have basically said they have other evidence and I have been strongly advised by my counsel to withdraw."

The director of SWT, Jake Kelly, said: "We are pleased that Mr Faletto has finally withdrawn his case, which proves definitively that there was never any substance to the claims he made. However, we remain angry at the way these fictitious, Walter Mitty-style claims were so quickly reported as fact. It is also doubly upsetting that many well-meaning people in community were so misled.

"This was a matter of principle and integrity and we were fully prepared to outline the truth to the employment tribunal. We are confident that they had heard all of the evidence, they would have found in our favour. For the avoidance of doubt, we have made no payment to settle this case and nor have we ever considered doing so.

"This case involved a serious breach of safety. The fact is that there is no evidence to show that there was a trolley on the track, as Mr Faletto claimed, and the safety of our passengers was not compromised at any point. The only safety risk was caused by Mr Faletto's foolhardy actions in knowingly stepping down on to an area of live track for no justifiable reason.

"No 'trolley' incident was recorded in the station log or reported to management at the time - or even when Mr Faletto was first questioned by management. It is very sad that an individual who was recognised by the railway has acted in this way."



Moderator note: Comment is welcome, but please consider the earlier requests about speculation and judgement of the parties involved. As the tribunal is now not going ahead it is highly unlikely that we will ever know the precise chain of events or exactly what evidence was to be presented by both parties.





Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: ChrisB on November 01, 2011, 14:23:30
The additional evidence was obviously sufficient for his legal team....nuff said


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: vacman on November 01, 2011, 17:19:55
I think that common sense has prevailed!


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: Tim on November 01, 2011, 17:24:18
Wow.  SWT's statement is an unusual departure from bland "corporate-speak"


Title: Re: Train station manager sacked for moving trolley off line
Post by: Timmer on November 01, 2011, 17:36:33
Wow.  SWT's statement is an unusual departure from bland "corporate-speak"
I think that gives you an idea of just how much feeling there was at SWT towards this claim.



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