Great Western Coffee Shop

For this Monday...

Trying to see if I can be bothered to go see mommy

Cheltenham, Birmingham & London Midland to/from Birmingham

Bristol to Hereford Standard Class Anytime Day Single* (^21.30 or ^23.60 from Nailsea), travel short to Birmingham on any XC service. Birmingham to Stafford single (^9.20 peak/^9.00 off peak), then Stafford to Liverpool Virgin Trains Only fare - First Class from Stafford to Liverpool (VT Only) is quite reasonable at ^22. Standard Class ^19.50 peak, ^18.50 off peak. Again both VT Only.

After that you're on your own, but I'd suggest looking at Advance Purchase for Liverpool to Peterborough!

*This fare is routed 'Any Permitted' and the Routeing Guide allows Bristol to Hereford via Birmingham. So end your journey at Brum, travelling short. It's a darn sight cheaper than the BRI-BHM fare and about ^7 cheaper than splitting at Cheltenham.

Thanks

I'll be starting from Bristol if I do make the journey - I'll know by sunday night which leaves the AP option open for the peterborough leg

I'm impressed to learn that you're allowed to do Bristol - Hereford via B'ham. Given the loss of the direct LM service to Cheltenham, the journey planner often tells me to travel from Worcester via B'ham, but I've always assumed that that's not a permitted route.

Interestingly when I put Bristol TM to Hereford into East Coast's system it gives travel via Newport and the ^21-30 single, but add via Brum and it says no fares available.

Indeed. The fares system will not show the route as available, but the ticket has 'Any Permitted' printed on it and one of the mapped routes for Bristol - Hereford shows Birmingham as a potential via point. Possibly an error in the Routeing Guide but it's there and in the public domain and if it is  an error it wasn't corrected in the most recent revision.

It may not be logical to go that way when travelling to Hereford, but since when was the Routeing Guide ever logical?  ;) ;D

Still, the illogical routeing throws up a handy saving for travel to Brum and I'm all for that!

Hmmm - you might have fun persuading the XC gripper....

Done the trip numerous times and have yet to have an XC gripper disallow the ticket. One even said, "Ah, using the Routeing Guide are you? Bet your not going to Hereford."

I wasn't. I was going to Liverpool!

But as a caveat, there is the potential for a XC TM to disallow. In which case I'd ask for a UPFN and then write to XC with details of the relevant Routeing Guide map.

QED.  :-X

Watch out with the return fares.  The "no-time restriction" SVR has restriction code 8A, which says on the outward journeyThe CDR and SDS appear to have no such restriction.

And almost impossible to enforce. You'd have to be followed by an extremely zealous RPI. You could access station facilities for hours if you wished.....

And with a legitimate change of trains being a walk between Birmingham New Street and Birmingham Moor St, how is that walk enforced? Again you'd need to be followed. Do you have to stick to a set route? Are you allowed to do some shopping or have lunch en route?

So, a rather silly rule in this instance, but yes, you're not supposed to break your journey (including travelling short) on the outward with the SVR, but the OP's journey required single fares so no problems there.

Of course, I don't condone rule breaking. Just highlighting the silliness.  ;)

And, something else to throw into the mix.

You can, of course, split the Bristol to Birmingham part of the journey at Cheltenham as ChrisB originally suggested. However there's no need to buy a Cheltenham to Birmingham Standard Anytime Single at ^20.50. You can instead buy a Cheltenham (CNM) to Bromsgrove (BMV) Standard Anytime Day Single at ^9.80 and travel to Birmingham (ending short) courtesy of this easement from the Routeing Guide:


 ::) ;) ;D

Again, the same caveat applies as mentioned earlier. Being armed with a print-out of the relevant section of the RG should help smooth any potential difference of opinion from on train staff.

As always, I provide the advice merely to show what the potential cheapest fare could be. Whether you act on that advice is entirely up to you. As is whether you decide to arm yourself with the evidence from the Routeing Guide. Some folks won't want the hassle and will weigh up the potential saving versus the potential hassle. I can respect that. My experience having travelled this route with XC, on both the the BRI-HFD fare and the CNM-BMV fare, is that I've yet to experience any problems. Tickets queried yes, but by explaining how they're legitimate according the Routeing Guide has seen XC TMs allow me on my way.

Now, I'm aware that publicising these legitimate loopholes may see them closed in the future and I've had heated debates on another forum about whether certain loopholes should be discussed publicly. However, I'm of the opinion that these workarounds shouldn't only be there for a select few to share privately - that smacks of an "I know know something you don't" attitude that I'm not comfortable with. Why should I save money with my knowledge of the fares system and not others? Yes, I could've replied to the OP on this thread by PM but can I really add a condition to my advice saying "keep this to yourself"?

Of course, I run the risk, by providing this information publicly, of seeing these loopholes closed. I'm comfortable with that. It's a bit of a game. With such a complex fares system there are always going to be legitimate workarounds. I'm aware of examples where one loophole has been closed only to open another on the same route. Such is the nature of our current fragmented rail network. I make no apologies for highlighting these loopholes and potentially depriving the TOCs of what they see should be the correct fare for a particular journey. They are responsible (through ATOC) for the massively complex system currently in place, so they get little sympathy from me when I, or others I provide the advice to, pay less than the TOCs believe should be paid for a particular journey.

It's not just me. Andrew Adonis made great play about the value that an All-Line Rail Rover could offer when he was SoS at the DfT. Consequently savvy business people realised the 1st Class 7 day ALR could be better value than just two 1st Class Anytime Returns in a week on certain journeys. ATOCs response? Put a 10am restriction on the ALR for flows into/out of London, surrounding major stations and Birmingham. Kudos to FGW for not agreeing to that restriction however. And there is still a legitimate workaround to avoid that 10am restriction at very small additional cost.....

Thanks all!

I won't be going on Monday but I will be at some point so this is all helpful!!!!!!!!  I have too much to do due to distractions in my life to waste a long weeked schlepping to scouseland!

And it wasnt exactly fun when she was here!