Great Western Coffee Shop

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12945892

Posted in "The Wider Picture" cos it turns out to be mainly about parliamentary trains.  Not sure that Stockport -> Stalybridge should really be "Parly" ... I think there's a genuine flow there!

For those of you who prefer words to pictures:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/therell-be-another-bus-in-a-month-or-so-2260119.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/therell-be-another-bus-in-a-month-or-so-2260119.html)

Two errors in Simon Calder's items.

Firstly, there is a service in the other direction over the Latchmere curve from Wandsworth Road, it runs non stop to Kensington Olympia.

Second, the W13 bus service runs only when people book. If there's no-one on the inbound service then the return from Milton Keynes will not run. The service, called Wanderbus, is a community bus service and is run by volunteers.

Gonna do the journey from Wandsworth Road. to Kenny O later this week. Just for the heck of it!

As a frequent user of the line in the 1980s to get between Yorkshire and Birmingham in my student days, i can assure you there isn't. Local traffic was absolutely minimal, with almost everyone on board connecting between Transpennine trains and services running south of Manchester Piccadilly, to avoid the bus journey between the two Manchester stations - which was the only reason Stockport-Stalybridge lasted as long as it did. Once Transpennine services started going to Piccadilly, the entire basis for Stockport-Stalybridge trains went - Greater Manchester PTE/PTA/ITA has never thought it was worth trying to develop the route.

Make a Day of it, take the 09:25 from Kenny O, have 6 1/2 hours in Wandsworth then catch the 16:12 back ;D

I suspect that if Stockport wasn't at capacity, the Denton reddish south link would see regular services, infact despite the fact it's a long way round running a morning and evening service from rose hill to Stockport via guide bridge and Denton would still be quicker than road

I'd imagine that the road traffic situation is very different to 20-30 years ago, willc.

The Friends of Reddish South Station (http://reddish.dsracing.me.uk/index.html) are arguing for an improved service because, "the Reddish, Gorton and Hyde road corridors are becoming increasingly congested we need to be thinking about alternative modes of transport to Stockport and Manchester."

Just after electrification to Manchester and while Woodhead was still open, the quickest way to Sheffield was often Stockport Guide Bridge to Sheffield Victoria.

There is a big supermarket right by one of the stations which might generate trade.

The other use could be to keep passengers out of Manchester Piccadilly, by diverting them via Stockport. Although take point about Stockport at capacity. Is Stockport still unique in having 4 AB sections through the station?

Re Latchmere Number 2 to Wandsworth Road via Factory junction, presumably the "parly" will still be required when LOREL run their Highbury to Claphsm Jn service via the East London Peckham and South London. This will connect with the West London to Willesden at Clapham Jn to form an outer circle. As the Clapham Jun trains will  only use Factory Junction to Longhedge Jn, leaving the stretch to Latchmere No. 2 without passenger trains.

Does anyone know the status of Latchmere No 3 to West London Jn which was put back to allow Eurostars to get to North Pole and was used for a while by some connecting services from the North. I've used it with Clan Line on a railtour.

Did that line have to be formally closed or was it never really open to passenger trains?

 

Now I could spend 6^ hours in Wandsworth - there are a couple of nice pubs on the riverside I know there. Unfortunately Wandsworth Road station is in Clapham, Borough of Lambeth!!

Also, does anyone know what's happening over the other section of track that lost its train service when CrossCountry stopped their Brighton services? The stretch from Acton East Junction to North Pole Junction. Is the 'ghost bus' still running from Ealing Broadway?

Sheepcote Lane curve was definitely formally closed to passenger service at the end of 2004 - I guess the official correspondence will be archived as the SRA were responsible for the application.  ATW had been running a service off the West London Line into Waterloo, it was covered by a taxi in the very early hours for the last few months.

There's a short history here: http://www.avoe05.dsl.pipex.com/Sheepcote%20Lane%20curve.htm  - it includes a link to a relevant DfT letter, but not the probably more specific second page; however ATW's statement that closure had been approved is there...

Paul

The bus is still operating i think Southern did plan to run a wandsworth road to ealing broadway service using a class 171 but network rail refused as it would be difficult to rescue  due to  the couplers not matching those of the class 165/166 fleet.

Southern have now decided to give the idea another go this time as a evening journey from Clapham common  i think, to Ealing Broadway & back, i suppose network rail may be more willing  this time as the route is a little bit more quieter than during the daytime.

But the whole idea of a SN service to/from Ealing Broadway is stupid. There is a perfectly usable parallel route using the Central Line from Shepherds Bush, so no-one whatsoever is being inconvenienced.  If there really is a necessity for through fares to be available, why not just produce one with the necessary routeing to make them valid on LU - it will be a damn sight cheaper than running an empty DMU about...

Paul

It's nothing to do with fares. It's all about providing a service, no matter how silly, instead of going through the formal closure procedure. A legal requirement that must be done when a passenger service is removed from a stretch of line or station.

Since CrossCountry ceased to serve Brighton, two stretches of line (one between Acton Main Line and Shepherd's Bush and the other between West Brompton and Wandsworth Road) were no longer traversed by in service passenger trains. The second of those two now sees a once-a-day return trip from Kensington (Olympia) to Wandsworth Road.

The first, however is more problematical. A requirement to provide the service lies with Southern, as it was written into their franchise agreement beginning Sept 2009. The major problem is suitable rolling stock. As the line is not electrified between Acton East Junction and West London Junction Southern don't have any suitable rolling stock. What DMUs they do have are not yet cleared to run over that section.

So, until that problem is overcome we have a token once a week rail replacement bus running in lieu of a passenger train service.


I've done a bit of digging and have found provisional timings:

2017 SSuX Clapham High Street - Ealing Broadway
2112 SSuX Ealing Broadway - Clapham High Street

Start date not comfirmed yet, but when these services do start the two other 'parlys' between Kenny O and Wandsworth Town will be withdrawn.

Class 171s to be used. The problem of incompatible couplings is still going to be an issue should one of the Class 171s fail on the GWML. Still quite busy through Ealing Broadway around 9pm on a weekeday. Bit of a wait for another Dellner coupled 171 to make it's way form Selhurst Depot.

Hi, BMN ... someone pointed out to me that the Friends of Reddish South Station are members of ACoRP, and asked me how come their application was accepted and the TransWilts one wasn't.   And I couldn't find a good answer from what we've been told so far.   I think it's absolutely right that they're members, by the way - my question isn't "why are they members", it's "how come we're not allowed based on lack of trains and the fact that we want more, when others are".   Answers sought - I'm more and more thinking we may not have the full story.

See http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=8690.0 for the linked story

I've done a bit of digging and have found provisional timings:

2017 SSuX Clapham High Street - Ealing Broadway
2112 SSuX Ealing Broadway - Clapham High Street

Thanks  anthony for those. One question hoiw are they going to turn round at Ealing Broadway? As far as I know there is no bi-directional working through the station.

It could either fgo back empty via Down Relief to Acton West Junction and go into the yard and come back wrong line to Up Relief or go down Relief to Hanwell  and come back over the first crossover of Hanwell Jn and come right line Up Relief.

If it starts in May it would be possible to do one way in daylight.

I presume it will be on a Travelcard so i can do some running around andcatch iot from Calpham High stret and change at Ealing for Taplow.

Grahame interesting point re ACoPR and Reddish South. When is campaining for a better train service not campaiging for a better train service?

Sorry can't help I'm as puzzled as you.

It'll probably go empty to West Ealing, into the goods loop by the Plassers factory, and stand behind the goods loop signal before returning Up Relief to Broadway - the same shunt that the Greenford's do if they're terminating short at West Ealing

I know all that - I'm saying it is stupid that the DfT aren't closing the NR passenger service - because there is a perfectly usable LU alternative.  There appear to be no valid reasons why anyone could object, so why don't the DfT just get on with it?

Paul

Yes, the traffic situation is different. Since the 1980s, they have completed the motorway ring around Manchester, which makes getting to Stockport from the Guide Bridge, Denton and Reddish areas by road much easier than it was back then. Never mind that, as i said, local passenger traffic on the line was near non-existent long before the M60 existed - if it had existed, then the PTA might have thought the service worth saving. And if you want to go to Manchester, then I'd suggest Reddish North station would be the place to catch a train.

The fact that Reddish South may have a very weak case it's still odd it's a member of AcoPR whilst Transwilts with a much stronger case can't join.

Maybe that's the problem it would be harder to say no to Transwilts if they were members. Roll out the conspiracy theories.

RE Wandsworth Ealing Broadway forgot about Plasser loop.

I think i i remember correctly it was to run emepty up to west ealing i think and reverse on the greenford branch or something.

Also from May Chiltern have decided to stop the 11:36 London Paddington - Gerrards cross service at South Ruislip again so it is possible to a  have a trip along some of rare sections of line around ruislip using a travelcard

If the 11:36 Padd to Gerards Cross is to stop at South Ruislip, do you mean West Ruislip? I can well recommend a run on it for you track bashers.

You can return to London via Marylebone if it stops at West Ruislip, or  Central Line all the way or go to Greenford and  back to Padd.

I am sure it was south ruislip it said on  proposed the timetable

I guess eightf48544 is referring to the fact that trains cannot get from the Paddington route to the platform at South Ruislip, but they can with the new layout - IF it is finished by the timetable change date.. 

However the new Chiltern timetable is supposed to be all up in the air because the infrastructure works won't be completed, so the proposed calling pattern from May 22nd might not actually change then - I'd check nearer the time, but it's being suggested the main changes won't occur until September...

Paul 

Or maybe they just went up to Stalybridge, got on a train over to Slaithwaite and did some direct lobbying of Acorp.

I suspect Acorp's beef with Transwilts is that since 2005 community rail partnerships and community rail lines are designated on an official basis by DafT. Without that, Acorp won't play ball. And Transwilts did not figure in the list of lines DafT considered had potential for such partnerships when it drew up its community rail strategy, see http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/strategyfinance/strategy/community/revcomrail?page=6

Will, thanks for that thought / link to the designated list.   We were aware of the list, and of the absence of the TransWilts line / service from it, and had discussed this in person with civil servants who look after community rail from the Department for Transport prior to making our application to ACoRP. And we understood that the absence of a line / service from the initial list was no barrier to it being granted the status and a CRP being able to join ACoRP.  I'm not saying that this isn't the reason (please excuse the double negative) we weren't accepted, but if it is the reason, I would have expected the letter from ACoRP to have included something to the effect of "the line / service you wish to support is not included in the list of suitable lines.

I'm inclined not to speculate too much more at present; we should really wait for the clarification that we've asked for from ACoRP.

just to add to my post, i have no idea about traffic to stalybridge, however i can tell you that as of 1997 getting from marple to stockport was a pig! that is clearly some time ago and i can confirm that it has got much worse!!

i dont think that a case can be argued for a regular service to stalybridge that conects with rose hill (marple) services at guide bridge for a stockport connection for 2 reasons stockport stalybridge isn't a major commuter route.. is it? and as for connecting service i cant see that being a winner with passengers who would have to change at guide bridge...

but a service that runs from rose hill to stockport at peak times probably would, 18 mins from rose hill to g b and another 21 from guide to stockport so 39 mins in total, could shave time off by omitting some stops but even without doing so 39 mins beats the peak journey time from marple to stockport by road... it can take that long to get to get to  17 windows ! and during the day without traffic the bus takes 24 mins

Looking at the list form willc's hyperlink I see Slough Windsor is included.

Here we have line which now has a 20 minute service during day, service for 18 hours , well used and run by FGW. Why does it need to be a Community Rail partnership?

Also included are Maidenhead Marlow and Twyford Henley.

The former possibly as there already is an active user group. However, the line is at capacity in the morning and evening peaks with through trains to and from Padd. Plus there is little scope for more than an hourly service duing the day and evening unless the loop is put back in at Cookham and the Marlow branch runs as a shuttle to Bourne End all day. Still they put the loop back at Penryn.