Great Western Coffee Shop

Sorry to be the bringer of bad news, but according to Tony Miles column in the November edition of Modern Railways, the first four 180s will go into storage at Eastleigh at the December TT change following the reduction of diagrams. You would have thought that they would store them somewhere else following the press attention given to the stored ex-Wessex stock that was stored at Eastleigh following the last December timetable change whilst commuters crammed into less rolling stock.

Also he reports that things are not looking rosy on the 142 front with the units not proving very popular with FGW engineers who I think its safe to say feel that they are not fit for purpose with one fleet manager reported to have taken the view that plan to put them into service should be abandoned.  :o I dont think FGW have a lot of choice as they will be chronically short of stock once the 12 158s go in December.

This is only a very brief summary of what Tony has to say on the matter in my own words so its worth reading if you can get hold of a copy.

There are still many challenges ahead for FGW and Dft are not helping them by taking away more rolling stock (158s) and placing 180s into storage at a time when FGW are barely coping with the stock they do have. Knowing this I think it would be unfair of the Dft to pull the trigger on a company that has all the odds well stacked against them. There simply is no spare decent stock that they could use.

Except the Adelantes...  >:(

Exactly!

Unless someone *wants* press attention in which case it's an excellent place to store them  ;D

I hadn't thought of that one Graham, good point  :)

The 142's have been used for driver familiarisation runs lately and most drivers have been pleasantly suprised by them! as they are quite quick and aren't too bad on welded rail. Hull trains are to have one Adelante from December to cover for a 222 "Pioneer" that is poorly!

In order to shed light on the ridiculous amounts asked for by the ROSCO?

Forum members may remember the furore that erupted last December when 4 class 153's from the Wessex local fleet were put into store at Eastleigh and passengers were forced to cram onto short formed trains. I think pictures of those units were published on this forum and in the railway press.

FGW stated there was no suitable stock available. Well those 4 153's have lanquished at Eastleigh for what, the last 10 months unused. What do we make of FGW statement now, damn lies ?

Today (24/10/2007) they were moved to Bournemouth depot, an electric train depot, to be worked on and readied for a move up north.

Were they offered to FGW LAST December / Jaunuary to alleviate the FGW "unforeseen" stock shortage, I doubt whether we shall ever know the truth.

I think there has been a massive cover up on this stock issue to mask another of FGW's failings, staff. With the current level of staff shortages, we see daily, handfuls of services cancelled due to a member of crew being unavailable.

Even with staff shortages they could have tagged one of those 153's onto the back of a 150 and alleviate some of the overcrowding experienced by passengers in the last 10 months or so.

Who knows without the staffing problems, with these 4 153's back on the books they would even have had stock to allocate and to provide a more frequent service on the Trans-Wilts line.

Andrew Haines has a hell of a task before him, I dont have his CV in front of me but can any member of this forum post when he joined SWT as I seem to remember that when SWT were first privatised, that TOC had a clearout of staff. This put them in the position of having a staff shortage like FGW have today. Would be interesting to know whether AH joined SWT after that fiasco and now hes been head hunted for FGW to sort out the similar mess left by the previous watch.

 

It was those very 153 units that sat, unused in a siding at Eastleigh for almst a year that were used to provide the Swindon to Southampton service until December 2006.

Basically ... they withdrew our increasingly popular train service and parked up the stock that had been used to provide it in a siding near to one end of the line, in full public view.

Actually, only 2 were used for it ;)

The 153s were technically and internally knackered, not the best choice for stock. The 142s are no better though! I'd like FGW to refuse to use them and demand the DfT does something useful for once.

Its a shame to see a modern fleet of stock stored at Eastleigh. Why don't FGW pull out all the stops and either use them on Cardiff - Portsmouth or strenghthen any 180s left with FGW running as permenant 10 car units.

With the exception of 153308 all of the 153's at Eastleigh were no worse than any of the other clapped out 153's with FGW! 153308 is a jonah unit, had plenty of hits on the Newquay branch with cars!!!

You could say that!!

With the exeption of 329 and 369 our 153s are wrecks!

What are the chances of a fleet of new trains for us in the SW then under Andrew Haines?

I can dream...

372 should be OK in a couple of weeks after refurb!

It would have only needed 1 153 to provide a Westbury - Swindon shuttle.

What do they say, half a loaf is better than none at all.

Surely out of the millions of profit First Group reported in their publish accounts, they or the owning ROSCO could have given the 153's a refresh and put them into service rather than make the passengers suffer the overcrowding that has been a noteable feature of peak hour travel since last December and on the Cardiff - Portsmouth throughout the day. Its having to be done now to make them presentable for the new lessee TOC.

In a word MONEY. Angel Trains are asking too much for them and FGW or anyone else WONT pay what they are asking. Personally I feel FGW should work something out with Angel trains and as an act of goodwill and get them running on Cardiff-Portsmouth so the displaced 158s can be used elsewhere on the network thus saving the people of Devon and now looks like the Bristol area (6 to be based at SPM) having to use 142s. If First management are that serious in rescuing this franchise they need to put their money where their mouth is and keep the Adelantes. I'm pretty certain they would more than get their money back as business people would use them Cardiff-Pompey as they have 1st class. Come on First show DfT that you are a company worthy of winning more franchises by investing in what should be your jewel in the crown franchise.

I would say the chances are precisley nil! You will be very lucky to even see the refurbed 158's anywhere south of Bristol....That's why only Exeter and Penzance crews(who have one job between Exeter and Newton Abbot) are learning 142's, because they are going to be here for a while.(down south that is!) :(

I heard a quote of 15 million pounds per year for FGW to retain the Adelantes - I'm not sure if that was for the whole fleet, or enough for the Cardiff - Portsmouth, nor whether it was the total cost or the difference over and above using 2 car 158s for the service. If anyone can help quantify this, it would help in the understanding.

The comment was also made that the TCO (total cost of ownsership) of an Adelante is the same as the total cost of owenership of a 125, even though they only have a half of the capacity.

It's not in anyone's interest to have expensive resources (trains) sitting in sidings doing nothing when they could be earning money for both their owners (Angel Trains) and an operator (such as FGW).  But while the two parties wrangle and negotiate and play brinkmanship, it leaves the people for whom passenger trains exist in the first place - passengers - fuming on the platform. I am inclined towards blaming the system more than any of the individual companies. When the Adelantes come back into use somewhere, we should all take a look at the solution and ask "why couldn't they have got their heads together and come to that conclusion before taking them out of service?"

It would cost ^15m to retain Adelantes on CDF-PMH services according to FGW, thats before any profit, for unreliable units that keep setting on fire and probably burn more fuel (being 5 cars=5 engines), unless Angel trains get real with their leasing cost's then these units will sit in sidings turning rusty and nobody can really blame FGW for this. Would you do it if it were your business?

Many thanks for clarifying the origin of that 15 million figure. And, no, I would not invest 15 million unless I had a business case. And I would be reluctant to invest it if I thought that a bit of robust negotiation would reduce the figure significantly.

Would be interesting to know what the annual income is for the Cardiff-Portsmouth route. ^15 million is a lot of money I agree but what income is generated on this line and what could be generated by improving rolling stock with first class which may encourage people off the A36 and back onto the Severn Solent line.

A lot of negative customer experience of either being left behind at a station or being crammed in to a two car 158 would have made people go back to their cars this past year or so. If services were to improve passengers may come back (good publicity of new trains on the route) and income would increase.

I do agree though that Angel are asking too much for them otherwise why wouldnt another operator have snapped them up.

FGW are probably playing a waiting game, Angel won't want trains that aren't even ten years old sat in sidings off lease so they will have to reduce the leasing costs, the Adelante's would probably boost passenger numbers on the route.

I found a leaflet burried in a pile of junk at my house, about when the 180's were brand new!

Lets put it this way, I dont think we've heard the last on this one. Over to you Andrew H.