Great Western Coffee Shop

I have always purchased tickets either at a station, on board, or via a WebTIS booking engine such as that provided by eastcoast.co.uk.

However this week I needed to book Group Save and, not wanting to make a trip to Temple Meads specially, I decided to do it via First Great Western's website. Wanted to book early so as to increase the chance of either getting a table or at least sitting together.

I completed the transactions and got the best seating available (no tables though  :(). On checking my account today I discover I have been debited the correct amount of ^61.80 but this has been done as two transactions, ^22.00 and ^39.80 for the two lots of tickets, despite the fact that when I purchased them they were in a 'basket' totalling ^61.80. There is also a 'hold' on my account for ^61.80, which should have been removed once the transaction(s) were complete. This 'pending authorisation' effectively leaves me ^61.80 out of pocket until the 'hold' is removed, or 'drops off the system' as my bank refer to it. Anything up to 5 working days say my bank - it's the retailer that removes the 'hold'.

This has never happened before when I've used WebTIS. Whilst the transaction may not be processed the same day, as soon as it is the 'hold' on those funds is removed. I've never experienced a transaction where the money is debited and the 'hold' remains.

My bank are certain that the retailer is responsible for removing the authorisation 'hold', but of course FGW's web support (ie thetrainline in India) say that everything is normal their end.

^61.80 is a lot of money for me to be without even if it is just for a few days. Has buggered up my budgeting. I fear being charged twice and having to go through the tortuous VISA Debit Chargeback process.

Severely p155ed off. Thanks FGW.  ::) >:(

I've experienced similar issues. I once booked 12 tickets for a weeks worth of travel to save having to queue in the booking office in Taunton each day.

FGW debited my account for each individual ticket purchased, which when going over my bank statements, caused me some confusion. Which surely costs them a small sum in bank charges considering 6 of those tickets cost less than the magic ^5

I use Southern to book tickets and they charge me per transaction and I believe they offer groupsave discount too :)

I've checked Southern. No Group Save. None of the WebTIS based retailers offer it.

Southern only offer something called "Super Group", which is an advance ticket that actually allows many people to travel.

On a debit card, it would (they're priced per transaction); on a credit card, you're usually looking at a percentage and it would make no difference to the total fee to the card company.

I've had a hotel put a "hold" against my credit card when I checked in that had an extra "0" added to the end of it - should have been 300 pounds for a week in London but the nice folks put on a hold of 3000 pounds - resulting in some rather awkward problems when I wanted to use the card for something else.   Let's just say I was less that thrilled with them ...

It won't help I'm afraid but it's the card issuer (so the bank) that are responsible for removing the hold.. Some will and some won't. I think the request would have to come from the retailer though (I know this as I've had to do it as part of my job).. The hold on the funds does usually drop off after a few days but that again varies by bank. Your bank should be able to tell you how long it'll take (if they're feeling helpful that is).

I still don't understand why they did what they did though  :)

I have had the multiple individual charges when I once booked eight tickets in one go. Ive not had the "hold" thought with FGW. It did happen with another online retailer and when my bank looked at it and saw there was an identical transaction for the same amount they removed the second one.

I think (admittedly this is based on experience with my US card issuers, not in the UK) if the transaction has posted to your bank account then the hold should generally clear at midnight. If it remains there then that's an indication that they may have placed a "double hold" either due to computer error or some other kind of cock up.

Silly question but you didn't "double click" the pay button did you...?

Don't know if it's any help but there's a wikipedia article on the subject:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_hold (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_hold)

I think over here it's usually 4 or 5 days (average) for the hold to be removed (assuming the amount isn't "settled" by then with the bank).

My bank are saying it's an issue with the retailer, and the retailer is saying that they've performed the transaction correctly.

I have fingers crossed that the 'authorization' (is that an 's' or a 'z' blakey or CfN?  :P) will 'drop off' tonight. Still annoying though that I do not have access to the funds until the 'drop off'.

Well yes the initial problem does lie with the retailer.. Instead of sending off authorisation requests for the two lower amounts (totalling ^61.80) they seem to have requested the ^61.80 twice.. They definitely should be able to check this out..

And if so, and if the hold is still there, they can (try and) request it be removed..

Good Luck.. In my experience, by the time you've got them to agree to do that, it'll have dropped off due to time passing anyway...

Worth an e-mail to FGW maybe? They might give you compensation if nothing else..

The "holding onto funds" bit is something I really don't understand the reasoning behind (past the following morning anyway).. I've heard of examples where a computer system has got into a bit of a loop and requested the same amount (for authorisation) many many times until the card limit is reached.. Not good if the customer then has to wait several days to be able to use the card again.. even though they had enough money..

It's as long as the supplier feels it's needed, up to maximum of 2 weeks ... or that's what I was told when it happened to me, for my particular supplier. My hotel stay was for a week and I as I recall they put the hold on for that time plus a couple of days.  I can't see why an online railway ticket supplier would need to do it for more than a few hours while they check back with a central point for the availability of a limited resource such as a sleeper berth.

I doubt you would get any joy e-mailing FGW - they would just refer you to FGW Web Support (AKA - Trainline)

Not entirely related, but i've recently had a bill from Virgin Media for my Fibre Broadband. On the bill I noticed a late payment charge... So I queried this with them because I knew there would have been funds in my account to cover the bill.

Apparently during the time I switched banks, my new bank (Santander) requested that my Direct Debit be changed to the account I had with them, and not to take it from my old bank. But someone somewhere messed u and tried to take the funds from my old bank account (Which also had sufficient funds but the DD had been cancelled by Santander). Consquently that bank said no. Neither bank informed me of this and the first I heard of it was when VM issued me a ^10 fee on my account. >:(

I have contacted them and they said it was down to my bank to sort out...! Grrr!!

Santander, say no more.  :D

They blocked both my cards as I was using the card for a transaction away from home, apparently I should inform them of this!

Nothing specific to Santander there, that's standard procedure for almost any bank, to reduce the risk of card fraud. A quick phone call to tell them that you're going away is generally prudent, otherwise they may well detect what to them is a flurry of abnormal activity on the account and temporarily block things as a precaution.

Still not dropped of my account. Buggering up my weekend plans.

That isn't good..  >:(

Did you ask your bank if they could release the hold on your funds? or if not did you ask FGW (the offshore department  ::)) if they could ask the bank for the hold to be released?

Ping pong with me as the ball.  ::)

Co-operative Bank have said they can't lift the 'hold'. FGW (aka thetrainline) say there is no outstanding authorisation. Can I get the two to talk to each other? Can I flip.  >:(

Co-op have now said they will extend to me a temporary, fee free, overdraft, if the charge doesn't drop off overnight. Which is nice, but that only happened after a lot of pleading on my part.

Lesson learnt. Sorry FGW but you are not getting any more online transactions from me. If it's GroupSave then it's a station, anything else and I'm sticking to WebTIS and FGW can lose a percentage of the ticket price to East Coast.

Oh well... Where I work.. If we have complaints of this fashion.. we work our hardest to convince the banks to remove the hold (not that they always do).. Maybe FGW isn't that good (ooh did I say that out loud?) ::)

will point out once again that the ticketing part of the FGW Website is contracted to Trainline.

Oops sorry Ollie, I missed that .. OK i mean "maybe trainline isn't that good".. Either way FGW should either be able to sort it out directly or be able to direct bignoesmac to trainline's customer support.. yes?

im under the impression he has been speaking to them. But iirc number is 08703331778

Oh well.. Not as helpful as where I work then it seems.. :-(

I have been talking to them. Through gritted teeth. I know the online ticketing and the ticketing customer support is contracted out to thetrainline, but the shop window is FGW, therefore it is FGW who are not going to get another online ticket sale out of me. I already know to avoid thetrainline.

Next time I'll make a trip to Paddington specially, to buy my triple split Group Save 4 from Ollie.  ;) ;D

Oh, I collected the tickets today. All 38 of them!!!

..and that's another thing.  Why is it if you buy a series of journeys at the same time in the same on line basket do you get a different reference number for each one?  Spent over five minutes putting the card in and out of the machine and tapping in reference numbers at the TVM this morning for seven journeys and waiting for the machine to printout 23 tickets - what with reservations and a receipt for each journey.  It would be far easier to have one reference for the whole transaction.

WebTIS sites (East Coast, Southern, Southeastern, London Midland, Chiltern) all give one reference number for the whole booking, regardless of how many different journeys you book.

  Makes you wonder what percentage of ticket transactions are now made on line ?.

  It must be quite a sizeable proportion judging by the queue's at the Totnes TVM (when it's working).
  Perhaps it is time that TOC's addressed these issues, bearing in mind that this is obviously their prefered
  method of revenue collection.

I would ideally like to see a "print your own" ticket option for all TOCs - perhaps something standardised across the network.

In a comparison of buying FGW train tickets and booking a National Express coach this morning, the coach was much easier.  Immediately after payment, the ticket was presented which I printed.  Has a barcode which is presumably scanned on boarding.

Coaches, Ferries, Airlines can do it ... you have to wonder why the railways can't, don't you?

I have often wondered how I can book a plus-bus ticket which starts off with a bus ride without having to get it delivered by post days ahead, or making a journey to a manned / TVM'd  station to pick it up ...