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Title: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: dayranger57 on February 18, 2011, 22:20:13 A snap shot of times at a few locations:
08.53, 10.53, 12.53, 14.53, 16.53, 18.53 at HONITON (UP FGW hst's) 09.06, 11.06, 13.06, 15.06, 17.06, 19.06 at AXMINSTER (UP FGW hst's) 10.08, 12.08, 14.08, 16.08, 18.08, 20.08 at CASTLE CARY (UP FGW hst's) This is only an 'UP' guide, and you must check before you set out. dayranger57........ Saturday 19, Feb and Saturday 26, Feb. Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: Louis94 on February 18, 2011, 22:35:19 Running Saturday and Sundays until the end of March. Some services on Sundays even non-stop Honiton!
Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: Timmer on February 19, 2011, 11:05:01 Looks like the reduced service is already struggling to cope judging by these reports from the FGW website:
Quote 07:00 London Paddington to Penzance due 13:54 This train has been revised.It will call additionally at: Yeovil Junction.This is due to an unusually large passenger flow. 07:00 Penzance to London Paddington due 13:44 This train has been revised.It will call additionally at: Yeovil Junction.This is due to an unusually large passenger flow. 07:14 Plymouth to London Paddington due 11:40 This train has been revised.It will call additionally at: Yeovil Junction and Pewsey.This is due to an unusually large passenger flow. 09:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 15:39 This train has been revised.It will call additionally at: Yeovil Junction.This is due to an unusually large passenger flow. 09:42 London Paddington to Penzance due 15:56 This train has been revised.It will call additionally at: Yeovil Junction.This is due to an unusually large passenger flow. 11:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 17:51 This train has been revised.It will call additionally at: Yeovil Junction.This is due to an unusually large passenger flow. 11:37 London Paddington to Penzance due 17:53 This train has been revised.It will call additionally at: Yeovil Junction.This is due to an unusually large passenger flow. Looking at today's timetable their are only 7 direct trains between London Paddington and Plymouth/Penzance instead of the usual 13 so you can hardly say this is due to an unusually large passenger flow as the West of England line is busy all year round when a normal timetable is running. Are they not able to increase the frequency of services diverted via Yeovil/Honiton now the new double track is available? Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: bobm on February 19, 2011, 11:07:17 Shame the live departures board can't cope with it!
11:37 London Paddington No report 12:05 Reading No report 13:32 Castle Cary No report 13:34 Yeovil Junction On time 14:38 Axminster 13:58 40 mins early 14:52 Honiton On time 15:08 Exeter Central On time 15:21 Exeter St David's On time 15:42 Newton Abbot On time 16:29 Plymouth On time 16:54 Liskeard On time 17:08 Bodmin Parkway On time 17:20 Par On time 17:27 St Austell On time 17:45 Truro On time 17:58 Redruth On time 18:06 Camborne On time 18:17 St Erth On time 18:27 Penzance 23:48 321 mins late Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: super tm on February 19, 2011, 12:41:48 Looking at today's timetable their are only 7 direct trains between London Paddington and Plymouth/Penzance instead of the usual 13 so you can hardly say this is due to an unusually large passenger flow as the West of England line is busy all year round when a normal timetable is running. Are they not able to increase the frequency of services diverted via Yeovil/Honiton now the new double track is available? SWT are running an hourly service which is taking up the available paths. Previously SWT would almost run no service. Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: anthony215 on February 19, 2011, 13:23:12 I think they need to add more passing loops or more double track along that route.
Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 19, 2011, 13:28:20 ... and by the way: Welcome to the Coffee Shop forum, dayranger57!
Chris :) Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: grahame on February 19, 2011, 14:34:13 "Mopping up" ... I understand that the extra loop allows an hourly service to Exeter as a maximum - and at diversion weekends, that means a FGW service every 2 hours and a SWT every 2 hours. Also, my understanding of "unusually large passenger flow" is that it's shorthand for "lots more people wanting to use this or another train than happens on a normal day". And that could be because Yeovil Town have made the FA cup final and their fans want to travel ;) ... or because there are fewer trains on the route in question ... or because other train routes are cancelled / curtailed and people are flowing in unusual directions.
Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: JayMac on February 19, 2011, 14:53:41 And that could be because Yeovil Town have made the FA cup final..... Where they will meet Exeter City! ;) :D ;D Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: Louis94 on February 19, 2011, 15:13:03 Judging by looking at LDB the information being fed to it is not correct. Yesterday it was showing no FGW services calling at Yeovil, however this morning about 0500 Yeovil junction and pen mill stops appeared also some of the times at certain SWT stations altered. However during today Pen Mill stops have disappeared on some services!
I'd imagine the change of times at some SWT stations will be down to the SWT information system being connected to LDB and information being different, than what trust said! Then i'd imagine the addition of the Yeovil stops being FGW as i understand they were always ment to call there, but fgw didnt make them public in journey planner so that the trains didnt fill up with people from there. Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: JayMac on February 19, 2011, 15:53:39 And rather weirdly, both SWT and NRE say there is engineering work between Yeovil J and Exeter SD today and tomorrow. Surely it's a case of amended timetables rather than engineering?
Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: paul7575 on February 19, 2011, 17:51:17 How SWT explain it on their engineering pages:
Quote Engineering work will affect the First Great Western route between Exeter and London Paddington all weekend. A revised South West Trains service will run between Exeter and London Waterloo all weekend to accommodate the diverted First Great Western trains. Please use these links for timetables of altered trains services and replacement buses: http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/uploads/110219exeter.pdf (http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/uploads/110219exeter.pdf) http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/uploads/110220exeter.pdf (http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/uploads/110220exeter.pdf) So it is an altered SWT service, hence about 1.5 tph (each way) combined - suggesting once again that a 2 tph service is not possible due to the position of the existing loops. Paul Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: JayMac on February 19, 2011, 17:56:04 Aha, that's on the monthly summary pages. Click on an individual calendar day (19th or 20th February) and it says:
Quote Engineering work between Yeovil Junction and Exeter St Davids on Saturday 19 and Sunday 20 February 2011 Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: paul7575 on February 19, 2011, 18:50:34 Aha, that's on the monthly summary pages. Click on an individual calendar day (19th or 20th February) and it says: Quote Engineering work between Yeovil Junction and Exeter St Davids on Saturday 19 and Sunday 20 February 2011 I just go by their summary pages, because there is usually far more accurate more info and pdf timetables. The calendar just repeats whatever useless description Network Rail happen to be publishing, it's a pretty stupid setup really. Paul Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: SandTEngineer on February 19, 2011, 18:54:21 I don't follow the argument about only an hourly train service being allowed by the infrastucture. Firstly why provide a dynamic loop at Axminster that can hold up to three trains in each direction on each line. Secondly the normal hourly timetable normally only uses Axminster loop. The main constraints are the single line between Pinhoe and Honition and Chard Junction and Yeovil Junction. Close examination of the sectional running times shows that at a pinch a 30 min interval service in each diection could be provided with crossing moves at Chard Junction, Axminster and Honiton. However, there would be no room for late running, but that then was one of the reasons for the capacity in the dynamic loop at Axminster.
Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: Southernman on February 19, 2011, 20:12:10 SWT are running an hourly service (albeit one is out of the normal regular interval) with FGW operating a service every 2 hours (or so). The insertion of the Yeovil Junction stops is down to a confusion between the various parties I understand. SWT always thought stops were being made and FGW didnt! Interesting that one train is being looped and then passed by two trains following each other in the opposite direction at times! I dont think many more trains would be fitted in somehow!
With regard to the Axminster loop I believe that the a forthcoming resignalling will provide greater capacity on the line and then we may see the reason for the provision of so much signalling! Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: JayMac on February 19, 2011, 20:31:12 Thanks for that information Southernman, and a very warm welcome to the Coffee Shop forum. ;)
Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: Timmer on February 19, 2011, 21:20:41 The insertion of the Yeovil Junction stops is down to a confusion between the various parties I understand. SWT always thought stops were being made and FGW didnt! This would never have happened in the days of British Rail ;) And at least a revised timetable would have been published, which incidently is available in the NRT for Sunday services whilst diversions via Yeovil are taking place between now and the end of March (Table 135). How accurate it will be now to what actually runs tomorrow is another question.And we are told by FGW to consult the online journey planner even when that doesn't provide accurate information because they and some other TOCs cannot be bothered to publish revised timetables at times of engineering works. Should be mandatory IMHO. If TOCs like SWT and East Coast can do it why can't others? Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: vacman on February 19, 2011, 21:43:46 apparently the Yeovil PM and JN stops were put into the WTT for operational purpouses but somehow showed as passenger stops, hence the junction stops being "added" at the 11th hour.
Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: smokey on February 19, 2011, 21:49:52 Am I right in thinking Yeovil PM to JN is worked by a Token?
Be very interesting to see anything go between Junction and Pen Mill without stopping. Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: bobm on February 19, 2011, 22:08:38 Perhaps I'm old fashioned but I always preferred the booklets FGW did for engineering work rather than the reliance on the on-line planner. Somehow it was more definite and substantial than an on-line guide which you can't take around with you. Think they won special praise for their booklets at one point. I know economics comes into it - but even so.
Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: Timmer on February 20, 2011, 07:30:41 Think they won special praise for their booklets at one point. I know economics comes into it - but even so. FGW did win praise for them and yes economics do come into it but that shouldn't stop them from publishing a revised timetable online so it can be printed out if you require. SWT and East Coast are a good example of what can be done if you can be bothered.FGW appear to even be economising on the info provided on their Timetable alterations and engineering works page. For example info provided for this weekends work and next weekend. Same work taking place: http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=720 Quote Saturday 19 February LONDON PADDINGTON / BRISTOL TO WEST OF ENGLAND On Saturday 19 and Sunday 20 February 2011 the railway line between Taunton and Tiverton Parkway will be closed due to track improvement work. As a result a revised timetable will be in operation between London Paddington / Bristol Temple Meads and Taunton / Exeter?St Davids / Paignton / Plymouth / Penzance. The following is a summary of the changes. Customers are advised to check journey times before travelling as services over the whole route are subject to change. A limited through train services will operate between London Paddington and Penzance (in both directions). These trains will be diverted between Castle Cary and Exeter St Davids to run via Honiton with extended journey times. These trains will not call at Taunton or Tiverton Parkway. A revised train services will be running between London Paddington and Taunton. A revised train services will be running between Bristol Temple Meads and Taunton. A revised train services will be running between Tiverton Parkway and Plymouth via Exeter St Davids. Replacement buses will be running between Taunton and Tiverton Parkway. Some bus services will be extended to run to / from Exeter St Davids. Customers travelling on these routes are advised to check journey times before travelling as your journey times will have changed. Quote Saturday 26 February LONDON PADDINGTON TO THE WEST OF ENGLAND Line closed Taunton to Tiverton Parkway with buses replacing trains. London Paddington to West of England services diverted with extended journey times This page hasn't been updated for a couple of weeks now and only shows alterations to Friday 4th of March only with only the briefest of summaries for each piece of work taking place which is pretty poor when there are TOCs who have information on forthcoming engineering taking place in May! Come on FGW sort it out. You encourage customers to obtain information about timetable alterations and engineering work from your website so its time to improve this part of your website. FGW do many things well but provision of providing information is pretty lacking at times and needs to be improved. Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: grahame on February 20, 2011, 09:02:08 Quote 08:03 Penzance to London Paddington due 15:05 This train has been revised.It will call additionally at: Honiton and Yeovil Junction.It will no longer call at: Chard Jn. S.B.This is due to an unusually large passenger flow. Last Updated: 20/02/2011 08:08 When's the next service to Chard Jn then ;) Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: eightf48544 on February 20, 2011, 11:33:19 just a thought what happens if someone gets on at Honiton or Yeovil Junction with a Waterloo ticket?
Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: Brucey on February 20, 2011, 11:35:55 just a thought what happens if someone gets on at Honiton or Yeovil Junction with a Waterloo ticket? A walk-up ticket would be to London Terminals, so valid to Paddington also.An advance ticket would be different - presumably the passenger would be considered ticketless as they aren't on the booked train. Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: Timmer on February 20, 2011, 12:39:17 just a thought what happens if someone gets on at Honiton or Yeovil Junction with a Waterloo ticket? Because WoE services will be so rammed this weekend because of the reduced frequency of services, the chances that they will even see ticket inspection will be pretty slim.Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: old original on February 20, 2011, 14:15:23 Instructions were issued that during these weekend works, walk-on tickets routed "Taunton" would be valid on SWT to Waterloo and "Honiton" routed ones would be valid on FGW services to Paddington.
No easements on Advance tickets though Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: paul7575 on February 20, 2011, 14:25:57 There's routeing easements for this regular event in the current ATOC routeing guide list:
"10004 - During engineering works on days when trains which normally run via Taunton are diverted via Honiton, Yeovil Pen Mill and Castle Cary, tickets routed Taunton may be used on the diverted services. This easement applies in both directions." "30069 - From stations Exeter St Davids to Crewkerne (inclusive) tickets routed Woking, AP Woking, AP Woking London, Salisbury, Honiton, AP Honiton and AP London Honiton may travel via Reading on Great Western services during engineering works." The latter might be an anachronism, because SWT's almost normal service is running. Should cover most potential arguments you might have with a guard though... ;D Doesn't help with Advance fares of course - for those you still need to be on the correct service. Paul Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: bobm on February 20, 2011, 19:29:30 Quote 08:03 Penzance to London Paddington due 15:05 This train has been revised.It will call additionally at: Honiton and Yeovil Junction.It will no longer call at: Chard Jn. S.B.This is due to an unusually large passenger flow. Last Updated: 20/02/2011 08:08 When's the next service to Chard Jn then ;) Looks like the signalman at Chard is out of luck today! Quote 14:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 20:42 This train has been revised.It will call additionally at: Honiton and Yeovil Junction.It will no longer call at: Chard Jn. S.B.This is due to an unusually large passenger flow. Last Updated: 20/02/2011 13:18 Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on February 20, 2011, 22:37:15 is the old passing loop still serviceable ?
Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: Louis94 on February 20, 2011, 22:48:55 is the old passing loop still serviceable ? Yes it is, its used once or twice a day for early morning trains that are out of the hourly pattern. I also think it is being used for some of the altered South West Trains services during the diversions. Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: vacman on February 24, 2011, 11:50:03 Am I right in thinking Yeovil PM to JN is worked by a Token? Is still token worked but theoretically no need to stop at YVJ station as the signal box is beyond the platforms, although when stopped at the box the rear power car is still in the platform, at Pen Mill the tokens were being exchanged without coming to a stand!Be very interesting to see anything go between Junction and Pen Mill without stopping. Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: The Grecian on March 21, 2011, 23:15:42 I travelled on the 1609 from Axminster to Castle Cary yesterday (it was quicker to go that way to Bristol than my normal route via Exeter). For some reason there seemed to be a built in stop at Chard Junction even though we didn't pass anything and used the fast 'up' line (as far as I know Chard Jc has bidirectional lines, with the down line being used for the first train in either direction so the second train may not have to stop). As the train was scheduled to take 27 minutes to Yeovil from Axminster, this seems to have been built in.
I think Yeovil Junc - Pen Mill is token worked as is Pen Mill-Castle Cary, as the train had a few minutes wait at Junction before a scheduled stop at Pen Mill to collect tokens. It had a pretty meandering 64 minutes scheduled from Axminster to Castle Cary for what's a journey of about 37-ish miles. But that's engineering works and single line working for you. Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: Louis94 on March 22, 2011, 18:26:01 I travelled on the 1609 from Axminster to Castle Cary yesterday (it was quicker to go that way to Bristol than my normal route via Exeter). For some reason there seemed to be a built in stop at Chard Junction even though we didn't pass anything and used the fast 'up' line (as far as I know Chard Jc has bidirectional lines, with the down line being used for the first train in either direction so the second train may not have to stop). As the train was scheduled to take 27 minutes to Yeovil from Axminster, this seems to have been built in. I think Yeovil Junc - Pen Mill is token worked as is Pen Mill-Castle Cary, as the train had a few minutes wait at Junction before a scheduled stop at Pen Mill to collect tokens. It had a pretty meandering 64 minutes scheduled from Axminster to Castle Cary for what's a journey of about 37-ish miles. But that's engineering works and single line working for you. The reason for the stop at Chard was to allow the Waterloo train ahead to clear the section between Chard and Yeovil. Also the reason for the huge amount of time between Yeovil and Castle Cary is because the HSTs are limited to 40mph compared to a DMUs 75mph on the section between Pen Mill and Castle Cary. Hope that clears everything up for you. ;D Title: Re: Southern route for FGW hst's Post by: The Grecian on March 22, 2011, 23:31:22 Cheers - that does answer a few questions.
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