Great Western Coffee Shop

Change in conditions of use - full fare before 9:30am.

http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/southwest/devon/news/index.php?item=13091&show=1

Just to clarify, Chris, this is not FIRST doing this, it's a Cornwall Council decision which affects all bus operators, Western Greyhound etc.

Thanks, chrisoates and old original.

In the interests of 'fairness' (?!), I've amended the heading of this topic.

Further details of their decision are available from Cornwall Council (http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=25978):


CfN.  ::)

Always thought the National Bus Pass could be used at any time?
I know of areas that take the pass on certain routes at any time, London being one of them.

It comes down each local authority who has to pay for the scheme (with a subsidy from central gvmt) to set certain conditions.
Cornwall currently allows local residents to use them at any time but visitors not until after 09.30. From January, the locals will not be allowed to use them until 09.30 as well.

The national conditions are 09.30 to 23.00 Mondays to Fridays, any time Saturdays and Sundays (where there's a service).  In London TfL funds the use of national bus passes in London at any time but otherwise each local authority sets its own conditions for its local pass.  For example in Wiltshire local passes are allowed at any time except on First services before 09.00 M -F.

South Yorkshire PTE is the most generous of all. Passes valid from 9.00 am, on all buses, trains and trams, plus on through Northern Rail services out of SY into West Yorkshire. Also visitors can use the buses after 9 am but not the trains, but they can also use the trams. Hopefully this will not change but we await the setting of next years's budget

As this topical discussion is now widening to compare public transport services outside Cornwall, I've moved the topic here, in 'Other ways to travel'.

Thanks for your replies, everyone!

CfN.  :)

i believe such passes should perhaps be means tested or disability tested rather than handed out to all, i know of many elderly people who have saved well, and have more money than most other people in cornwall,   


*runs for cover, probable controversial comment*

Perhaps there is a case for making such inflexibly 'automatic age related payments' a bit more focussed: for example, the winter fuel allowance paid to those over 60 also causes some heated discussions (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1322165/Multi-millionaire-Lord-Sugar-handed-200-year-winter-fuel-allowance-says-I-dont-want-it.), apparently!  ::)

Speaking as an OAP, I have never believed that people appreciate things they get for free ( well, excluding fresh air perhaps!). Since the journey from home to town of around 4 miles cost ^2.40 one way or ^4.30 for a day ticket on what First laughingly call a bus SERVICE, I believe that a nominal payment of at least ^1 per journey should be applied. This should also include young people who currently pay only 50p per trip. Multi trip tickets would cover longer trips and bring in some revenue.

with regards to the heating allowance, my grandparents have retired to Greece, and yet still receive this every year, they are not registered as living in the uk, no addresses suplied in the uk, something to do with being eligible for a private british pension so they receive the fuel allowance!

I has been argued before, that Universal benfits like Winter Fuel and Child Benefits are administered more cheaply than there being a requirement to claim, supported by a statement of income for means testing, all of which require extra staffing at a time when staff cuts are being made. Look at the fiasco over limiting child benefit to people earning under ^40k, but not households earning under ^40k.

However the only reason free bus travel is available in England is because the devolved administrations od Scotland and Wales offer it to their citizens. Personally I would be very satisfied to retain free travel in my local area, which for many an be a quite large area. E.g. Cornwall, Devon, North Yorksire, though those living in Bristol might loose out ( but then they have a greater choose of buses than Cornwall).

Have heard that the introduction of Smart Card technology might be expedited Nationally and a new Smart card version of the OA Pass introduced witha monthly monetary cap on use applied 'before 2013/4'.  A suggested value of ^120 per month of which up to ^20 could be carried forward to subsequent months was made in the conversation I was in. The value selected enabling reasonable shopping and leisure journies with a backup for health trips, but preventing the tourism aspects of the current free-for-all.

In Cornwall most Western Greyhound services are equipped already, First might struggle as would the smaller operators.

Seems like the way to go to me. ^120 pm seems quite generous, for example SYPTE have a Travelmaster Direct debit ticket covering a years travel by bus, tram and train for ^89 pm. No restrictions, so ^120 on a Smart card seems good. Hopefully there would be no move to remove peaktime (am) restrictions.

I wonder how much OAP passes are used outside their local county. Personally I very rarely use mine outside, though for many free bus travel in London is useful.

I believe it's the extraordinary way that the system was introduced. I think drivers can only issue single tickets and therefore the face value of these is high, whether there's a discount offered by operators to the Local Authorities once these tickets are cashed in I don't know. Renegotiating this will have to be part of any rejigging the system.

The senior citizen bus pass subsidy has the important effect of maintaining the bus network during the day.

As long as extra buses aren't needed, (the number is dictated by peak demand when passes aren't valid) the marginal cost is only that of issuing the passes and the fares foregone.

Remove the OAP pass subsidy and the bus network collapses, as does the plusbus system that considerably extends the usefulness of the passenger railway.

A glance at a county bus map (none for Berkshire, note) shows that the local bus network is unsuitable for longer journeys with speeds typically of 20mph. Also there are some odd gaps; you can go from Reading to Oxford, Newbury, High Wycombe or Bracknell conveniently but not to Basingstoke or even to Maidenhead. The 40 odd miles from Reading to the coast is also not practicable.

OTC