Great Western Coffee Shop

The Class 172 units will first operate between Hereford and Birmingham New Street via Worcester on Monday 13th December 2010.  The first services will replace the four existing 4-coach trains (2 x 170) with a pair class 172 units making a 5-coach trains.

The first train being 2B00 06:00 from Worcester to Hereford and it's return service the 07:08 from Hereford to Birmingham NS.

Worcester drivers have told me that they are the first to be trained on the new London Midland units which will replace all the class 150 and all or most of the class 153 units.

I guess one 172 will be 3 car and one 2 car.  Bit tight for Colwall.  What would happen if the put two 3 car 172 together.  Can they do SDO?

New Street or Snow Hill?

new street - hereford trains don't go from snow hill

Given that they're supposed to be replacing the 150s on the Kidderminster line, why are they being introduced on the New St - Hereford route?

The original idea (ie the DfT Rolling Stock plan) was to replace all LM's 150s, so the first route they happen to enter service on doesn't really mean much does it?  It could also just be down to traction knowledge - 170 drivers may be easier to cross train initially?

OTOH the unsubstantiated rumour is that some 150s will be retained - presumably based on the idea that there haven't been enough cascades to other TOCs agreed yet?

Paul

Didnt think 150s went to hereford either!

Don't think I've ever seen one on that route

Have any even been delivered yet? Let alone any drivers trained

Bit of a surprise as I haven't heard anything about any of the LM sets being completed by Bombardier yet, nor seen any photos anywhere. As for training the drivers, I believe LM have bought a simulator to help speed things along.

The 172s unlike the 170s are fitted with SDO - Selective Door Opening - which is how they will cope with short platforms. 

The original plan was to start training the Worcester crews first and run 172s on the Hereford-BNS service because this would cause the least problems - with few stops between Droitwich and BNS , I don't know if this is still the plan, or if any of the crews have been trained on them, but the belief is that a pair will be in use from Worcester on Monday morning.   The two Hereford - BNS services have been chosen because they are considered by LM management to be the worse two overloaded services and an extra coach with SDO operation is what they have been waiting for. 

As the 172s have corridor connections and the 170s don't, the intention is to try to replace the 170s that have to work in pairs (or with 153s) and use the 172s on these 2-unit, 4 and 5 coach services. So a current two coach service that does not need to be strengthened is likely to be a 170 in future, and a similar 3-coach is likely to be either one of the five 3-coach 170 or one of the fifteen 3-coach 172s, whereas a current 4-coach is likely to be a pair of 172s.

Once the are in normal service (post shakedown and crew training), most are expected to spend much of there working life running between Malvern-Worcester-Kidderminster-Stourbridge-Snow Hill. 

This is supposed to free up all the 150s and the 153s to be redeployed to other operators (FGW in Devon and Cornwall and Northern around Leeds).

As for 150s in Hereford, they used to be very common before the 170s came along.  Now there is, I think, just one on a Saturday evening and perhaps another on Sunday.   

I have NEVER seen a 153 on any LM service between any Brum station and WOS  station(s) and/or hereford

The only 153 I ever saw in that part of the world was the HOW line

I may have been lucky but.....

You sometimes get a pairing of a 2-car 170 with a 153 on the B'ham - Hereford. I've seen this on

07:05 Malvern - B'ham
10:40 Hereford - B'ham
16:49 B'ham - Hereford
20:59 B'ham - Hereford

Hold on have any of the London Midland/Chiltern class 172's actually been fully built yet as i havnt read anything in the latest rail magazines. I thought the 1st class 172 for london Midland wasn't expected til 2011?

To be honest, that's what I thought when I was told by a couple of men who were putting up "4 car stop" signs and "SDO" signs at Ledbury on Thursday lunchtime, this was then reinforced by the LM driver and guard on my train.

PS. The signs are black with white writing unlike the HST 7 & 8 stop signs which are white with black at Ledbury.  London Midland colours!

PPS. The LM 172s were originally expected to enter service/staff training with LM in August, but this was delayed by the exhaust issue.

A quick google and the lack of... anything, makes me wonder if this is actually true. 

Oh, with regard to 153s just before the morning and evening rush-hours there are scheduled empty stock workings of 5+ coach trains from Tysley to BNS.  Things like 2x 170 and a 153 or a 170 and 2x 153, would make a unusual photograph.

Mookiemoo, a 153 coupled to a 170 happens more than once a day, the last train to/from Hereford is almost always like this, just in case one unit breaks down.  Spend three hours at Foregate Street, and you are almost certain to see a paring.

I think it was probably planned to be happening on Monday, but instead will happen next year.  I'm pretty sure nothing has been delivered yet, let alone crew trained up.

The 172 production line was apparently restarted at Derby about a month ago, but as I said previously, I've seen no suggestion that they have completed a single train yet, never mind two, nor tested any. And after their experiences with the London sets, I would have thought they will make sure the LM ones work properly before passengers are let anywhere near them.

Hm.  Maybe the signs were going up because the contractor contract said they had to be up before the start of the new timetable on 12th December and everyone is relaying gossip.  But you would have thought that the driver would know the truth.

He had obviously been on some training (simulator?) as he was moaning about all the different computer controls that would no doubt breakdown and cause him problems. 

He also moaned about loosing the 150s as because of their simple (no computer) design, they did not breakdown as much as the 170s and even if they did have a problem, you could always nurse them home. 

Earlier this year I remember seeing a 153 and 170 at Hereford. The 170 had completely failed and the 153 had to run round it, before they set off for Worcester.  The 170 was very dead and had a portable tail lamp on the rear. The 153 had passengers onboard.

A friend of mine says there is/was a 172 at Bromsgrove yesterday.  Not working, sitting in a siding.  Not sure how reliable this is, anyone know more?

Correct

There was a photo of it on the wnxx forum - but it was LO unit 172008, not an LM version.
 
Paul

Oh, not LM.....  I wonder what it's doing round here?  Crew training / familiarisation ?

Incidentally, the same friend has noticed that since the 12th December timetable change, all of LM 153 units are no longer in service.  So London Midland must be 9 or 10 coaches down with no new 172s into service yet.  That must be hurting somewhere. 

Testing on the Lickey bank?

Seems unlikely to have gone all that way otherwise, and if so it also suggests to me that the possibility of the three variants having different gearboxes and top speeds for their specific roles may not necessarily be correct...

Paul

This week's "Weekly Operation Notice" to traincrew has details of the special arrangements in place for testing of 172s on the Lickey, under full power and with engines isolated I believe, so yes, testing on the Lickey.

Thanks, interesting.

I know that Worcester drivers with a 170 that is down an engine won't attempt Lickey.

Might this thread be moved to the Wider Picture? While it touches on the western end of the Cotswold Line, it's not exactly a core concern east of Worcester.

correct a 170 with an engine out is not going to make the bank very easy if at all.
if it did make it then speed will be sub 10mph by the top,what normally happens is remaining engine/s will overheat the transmission and go back to idle or shut down if the engine overheats.

170/s great when running but awful if they have a problem way to over complicated just to move people from a to b

the 170's that LM have are fited with SDO on the in train control panels not 100% the cab control panels have it though.

Talking with LM management last week, they're not expecting any 172s before end-March / April, with driver training likely between Moor Street & Stratford-upon-Avon.

Don't expect them in service before September though.....

First 172/3 has left Derby...

http://cw-railpic.fpic.co.uk/p68624468.html

Short clip of the first set on the test track at Old Dalby
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpmjY6IbuKU

Ugly beast, innit?!

Interested that  LM might be using Moor Street. I thought it was paid for by Chiltern do they have to pay Chiltern or Networkrail for access?

With our crazy mixed up system you never know.

Must have a go on the LOREL ones on T&H or as now know GOB. Very interesting line first found it in the sixties when it still terminated at Kentish Town and was down for closuure.

Love: Junction Road Junction goes with Box Signal Box.

Strangely enough, just been on a 172 from Blackhorse road to Barking. Smooth ride, light and airy, 2+2 seating and wheelchair/standing space by the doors. Going on first impressions, im a fan.           

LM use the through platforms at Moor Street, whilst Chilten have just re-opened 2 of the 3 bay platforms.  NR own the station (and all stations), but my guess is that LM rent the station from NR, and that now Chilten rent some space from LM and have some staff based there.

It would have been nice to have made a comparison with the 172/4's http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=3929.15.  :( :(

Class 172 Wiki page has now been amended.  :'(

On the brighter side we'll be getting loads more 153's  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Moor Street is managed by Chiltern and has been since 2002 or so, when the old buildings were renovated and reopened.