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Line problem between Oxford and Worcester Shrub Hill.
Train services are being disrupted due to signalling problems between Oxford and Worcester Shrub Hill.Engineers are working as fast as possible to restore services to normal. Short notice alterations and delays of up to 25 minutes can be expected.
Last Updated: 19/11/2010 08:06

05:48 London Paddington to Great Malvern due 08:36
This train has been delayed and is now 16 minutes late from Evesham.This train will be terminated at Worcester Foregate Street.It will no longer call at: Malvern Link and Great Malvern.This is due to signalling problems.
Last Updated: 19/11/2010 08:19

06:43 Hereford to London Paddington due 09:47
This train will be started from Worcester Shrub Hill.It will no longer call at: Hereford, Ledbury, Colwall, Great Malvern, Malvern Link and Worcester Foregate Street.This is due to signalling problems.
Last Updated: 19/11/2010 06:19

06:43 Hereford to London Paddington due 09:47
This train has been delayed and is now 19 minutes late from Evesham.This is due to signalling problems.
Last Updated: 19/11/2010 08:20

8:58 Great Malvern to London Paddington due 11:29
This train will be started from Worcester Foregate Street.It will no longer call at: Great Malvern and Malvern Link.This is due to signalling problems.
Last Updated: 19/11/2010 08:18

09:29 Moreton-In-Marsh to London Paddington due 12:01
This train will be started from Oxford.It will no longer call at: Moreton-In-Marsh, Kingham and Charlbury.This is due to signalling problems.
Last Updated: 19/11/2010 08:05

Anyone know anything more specific than the catch-all "signlling problems"?

Talked to signaller friend:  Broken/damaged cables at Ascott probably caused by road-rail vehicles working on re-doubling going over the concrete cable trays once too many.  Fault occurred during the night, S&T fixed the one cable quite easily during the night but took time to find the second damage and was not fixed until nearly 9am.  Fault stopped trains being allowed onto and off the single line at Ascott.  He didn't say, but I guess that they must have been pilot working from Ascott to Wolvercote.

Thanks Don. At least it wasn't thieves, though you would think with troughs and cables all over the place alongside the route at the moment anyone moving plant around would be extra-careful.

The 09.54 from Malvern also got turned back at Worcester.

Not a good one today either, with nothing running between Hereford and Great Malvern until at least 09.30.

Seems to be some sort of problem at Colwall, requiring emergency engineering work, though the FGW website note about the 06.43 (which appears to be running non-stop from Hereford to Reading via Newport!) says there's an obstruction on the line.

According to London Midland Website 'problem with lineside equipment'

loved to be on the 06.43 today

From Teresa Ceesay this morning at CBY, a train hit something metal and damaged the track. Replacement bus from CBY but after filling all 57 seats still people waiting for taxis and that doesnt count those who gave up and took cars. Bus got caught up in Oxford traffic and unlikely to make next fast connection in Oxford to PAD.

And another one - compounded by the diversion of both the Hereford to London trains off the route. Not sure what stock is working the halts train. Hope it's not the two-car Turbo! If so, I leave conditions on board to your imagination. Service is currently running 77 minutes late and not expected at Moreton-in-Marsh for another 10 minutes.

Line problem between Worcester Shrub Hill and Evesham.
Train services are being disrupted due to over-running engineering works between Worcester Shrub Hill and Evesham.Engineers are working as fast as possible to restore services to normal. Short notice alterations and delays of up to 50 minutes can be expected.
Last Updated: 02/12/2010 06:37

Update: 89 late leaving Moreton-in-Marsh

Seems to be problems everywhere - one of the messiest feed maps I've seen

And picking up the tale where I left off, throughout all this, the online departure boards were insisting that the 09.29 from Moreton-in-Marsh to London was on time. Making a final check at 09.08 before stepping out of the door, still no mention of the service as cancelled on live updates, well after the point at which the ecs would have been stopped at Oxford. So I set off the to the station, where there was indeed a train but this was the 06.48 to Malvern, which still hadn't left for Evesham. Ticket clerk was unable to get anyone to tell him what the prospects of a train towards Oxford were, so it was the A44 for me.

Network Rail are apparently investigating what went on overnight.

Back on the rails for the return trip, I duly boarded the 18.54 (17.50 ex-Pad) at Oxford, only for an announcement to be made that due to an altercation with a passenger the TM refused to take the train forward and there was no-one else available, so 120 or so of us were turfed off. There was some suggestion on the platform among those who had been on board before Oxford that the altercation actually involved another staff member but I've no idea whether that is accurate.

Fortunately, presumably on the back of the morning's problems, the following 18.22 to Hereford was lightly loaded too, so we all got on board and an extra stop was made at Shipton. Wouldn't have been quite so straightforward on a Friday evening...

All in all, not a great advert for the railways.

From what I heard it was an issue in First Class but to my knowledge it wasn't staff.

And again this morning, 0643 Hereford to Paddington, delayed 40min from Hereford, delayed 57min by Ledbury. Signalling problems according to FGW live updates.

Oh well, effectively a cancellation for me, I have driven on the icy roads more often that taking the train this week. During the snow last Feb the trains got me into work every single day without problems.

05.48 to Malvern  stopped at Oxford so no 08.58 back.

Fingers crossed that the 09.29 from Moreton will run, but after yesterday's experience who knows, even though the 06.43 is so late - last report 56 late at Worcester Foregate Street a couple of minutes ago.

06:43 from Hereford is shown as being expected at Paddington 75 late.

0643 was 80min  late at Oxford. Both new departure boards lost the train when over an hour late, showing the next train as the 0952 On time....it was cancelled. 0835 was missing and eventually departed around 0955 and called at Hanboroughin addition to replace the cancelled train

This morning's problems were caused in part by frozen points at Shelwick junction near Hereford.

What happened to the 09.52 (09.29 from Moreton-in-Marsh) was that although it was ready to go on time from Moreton, it was sensibly held back to run in the path from Moreton (d 09.50) of the cancelled 08.58 from Malvern, including the Hanborough stop. Had it left Moreton at 09.29, it would have just spent 20 minutes sat at Ascott-under-Wychwood waiting for the 08.22 from London to Hereford to clear the single line after being delayed by the 06.43. Holding the 09.29 back made good sense, as we picked up a good few passengers at Moreton who were presumably aiming to get the 09.50.

Why on earth the 06.43 called at Hanborough, I have no idea, as nothing is booked to stop there southbound between the halts train and the 08.58, which, in its revised guise, duly called on time at 10.15 and picked up half-a-dozen people. The 09.29 from Moreton (09.52 CBY) does not call at Hanborough.

Speaking to a member of staff about what happened to the 09.29 yesterday, I understand that although there was a driver at Oxford for the ecs, there was no guard and the stock then got nicked anyway to cover another duty - all this happened before 9am, so why wasn't the website updated?

Pax refused to pay upgrade to First Class then became abusive to TM. TM refused to take train forward.

Now I may have a jaded view of proceedings after being delayed on my way home, but surely the more proportionate response would be to call the police and keep the train doors locked until the offending party was arrested and removed by them, rather than the offending party apparently getting off scot-free and a lot of other people having their journeys disrupted.

For a tm to be so angry and upset about an incident would suggest the abuse was at a level that could result in a public order charge for using threatening, abusive or insulting words to someone carrying out a public service (section 4, 1967 Criminal Justice Act).

An arrest in front of lots of people at a railway station would be fairly humiliating, appearing in court and getting a criminal record more so, and the word would get out that the railway takes this kind of incident seriously, as well as potentially deterring people from trying it on in first class - though a few blitzes by a hit squad of half-a-dozen RPIs at all times of the day and night would probably achieve that in a more direct manner than the judicial process.

Writing in a personal capacity (that is, not in my admin role): I agree with every word of willc's post above.

CfN.  :-X

Whilst I tend to agree with the spirit of the two posts above, it's not quite that straightforward. Even if the offending passenger was removed at Oxford, the encounter may have left the conductor sufficiently shaken up that they didn't feel fit to continue. If that was the case then I'd support their decision completely; the safety-critical parts of their job require full attention and concentration which isn't necessarily easy if you're running a recent traumatic event over and over in your mind. From personal experience, incidents like that can do funny things to your mind and your concentration; until you've experienced something along those lines it might seem that you'd definitely be able to carry on with the job, but the reality can be somewhat different.

Sounds like the main problem here was the lack of a spare conductor at Oxford who could have relieved the original one and taken the train forward.

There was another incident of abuse of a Train Manager recorded that same evening on an up Cotswold train, although in this case it did not result in the train being terminated. I only mention this because it serves to illustrate how common abuse is nowadays. And it is not confined to drunks and louts - there are plenty of so called respectable people who will use their intellect to have a go, if the mood takes them.

I agree with the Inspector - I would not like to be conveyed on a mode of transport where one of the persons responsible for the safety of the operation was not able to concentrate on his/her work.

Unfortunately abuse from customers seems to be a daily occurance.

Knowing who the TM was, it must have been pretty bad abuse for them to refuse to take the train further.

<rant>
Now most people would think that is unreasonable for the TM to refuse to take the train further and disrupt other passengers, however what is unreasonable is that passengers can continuously abuse us railway staff day in day out and expect to get away with it. Think about the TM, not yourself for once who maybe late because of it.
</end rant>

Dont forget there's easier (common) laws to use on railway property.
Railway Regulation Act 1840 S16
Regulation of the Railways Act 1889 S5

Then of course you have the new public order offences, S4, S4A and S5 Public Order Act 1986.


Disclaimer, im not a lawyer, blah blah blah

Yes, I do. And after a morning when the railways let me down, with FGW's website providing incorrect information about the state of services, showing my train as running on time when the ecs had been cancelled at Oxford, the evening cancellation was pretty much the last straw for me.


Unfortunately, what was an opportunity to do something about it - ie a prosecution, with the attendant publicity, which might get the idea across that it is not a good idea to abuse railway staff, was lost. I don't doubt abuse is a constant problem for staff but letting people in incidents like this get off scot-free will not do anything to stop it. It may be difficult for the staff involved for the situation to be prolonged waiting for the police and it may delay a train, but unless arrests are made and court cases happen, nothing will change. So yes, I am thinking about the tm and the rest of you. And sadly, court cases, with all the time and cost that involves, is what it will take if you want the abuse to stop.

I've not seen anything in this thread to say that the abusive passenger that led to the train being caped wasn't arrested. Do you know for definite that this passenger was let off 'scot-free'?

I've witnessed myself someone not getting off 'scot free' after abusing a staff member on a train approaching Oxford:

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=8021.msg80508#msg80508

Train arrives, doors opened immediately, tm gets out of TGS at far end of train from first class and walks off. Train cancelled announcement made on PA after five minutes sitting in platform. None of which suggested to me that anyone at Oxford had been forewarned of the situation, nor was waiting for the police before releasing the doors.

Ah.... quite possible the miscreant did get away then. In the incident I witnessed, the n'er-do-well decided to hide on the train when he could've quite easily legged it as the doors were released on arrival also.

Hmm.  A recent incident that I witnessed was perhaps a textbook example of what should happen, in such cases:

On a train from Bridgwater to Bristol - the conductor (quite a character - well built male) carried out ticket checks between Highbridge and Weston.  He was given verbal abuse by a young female passenger when he reached the very front of the train (2 car 150).  She stormed off to the back of the train, while he merely sat down, phoned on his mobile and asked whether BTP could meet the train at Weston.  Perhaps remarkably, BTP were indeed on site at Weston, so when we arrived there, he opened just the front pair of doors, explained what had happened, and accompanied the BTP officer down through the train to where the offender was identified and arrested.

Total delay: about five minutes - well worth it, just for the entertainment value for the other passengers, I thought!  ::)

I can understand your irritation in the circumstances, but the fact remains that if the guard concerned did not feel fit to continue (a call which is theirs to make, and theirs alone given the responsibility inherent in the job) the miscreant being hauled off the train by BTP and prosecuted still wouldn't have meant that your train ran.

Another potential issue is that keeping a train sitting in the down platform at Oxford with the doors locked awaiting police attendance stops any traffic from using that platform for the duration, potentially causing a much greater overall inconvenience to passengers using XC and other FGW services up to Banbury than the issue caused by simply terminating your train there.

Please understand, I'm not suggesting that this situation was dealt with perfectly by any means. But the crux is that if the guard felt unfit to continue then regardless of anyone being arrested the train still would not have run unless there was a spare guard available.

While I have every sympathy, I would suggest that if a confrontation looks like getting out of hand, the best thing to do would be walk away and take steps to get the police to deal with it, like the case Chris observed, not let it get to the point where you are so upset/angry that you walk off the job - leaving behind the train and passengers that, as you keep pointing out, a tm is responsible for.

I don't think the operational issues were exactly uppermost in the tm's mind at the time - and in any case the train was on the platform for 15 minutes or so, while the station staff and control first worked out what had just happened, then decided what to do and finally got everyone off the train, by which time the signaller had used the bidirectional signalling on platform 1 to route the following York train past the 17.50 and then allow a Banbury train past a terminating HST while that was sat in platform 2.

Did you witness the incident itself? If you didn't I think it is unreasonable for you to judge the TM's actions.

I agree with Will's sentiments in principle, but getting the police interested enough in a verbal abuse case to warrant them arriving on the scene with any haste is difficult.  Unless you happen to be lucky enough to have some BTP present at the station (as in Chris' uplifting tale), it's hard to get the local force particularly interested - even at a large place like Oxford.  Perhaps the re-staffing at the BTP office at Oxford will slightly improve the chances of having someone there, but in reality they'll usually be out and about somewhere else.

Local Police attended the incident of verbal abuse I was caught up in at Oxford.

It really does depend on several things in order to get local civi police interested enough to attend.

a)Which county you are in. Some forces wont touch railway related matters with a barge pole even if a major event is happening unless BTP demand they attend. Some county forces will turn up regardless of what is happening.
b)Is there an off duty there? Its a [police] colleague after all.


During my off duty travels around the country, I have had some really good civi forces (herts/west midlands/kent) and some really cr*p ones (Oxford/Bristol/Devon).

By 'Bristol', do you mean police in the city of Bristol itself, or are you including the whole of the Avon & Somerset Constabulary force area?

Also, I'm rather intrigued by your use of the term 'civi': all of our local police services, including BTP, are 'civilian' - as distinct from the 'military' police RMP (http://www.army.mod.uk/agc/provost/13306.aspx), for example?

C.  ;)

They're just always called that in railway circles, to distinguish them from the BTP.

Going back to WillC's incident, I had a chat to one of the guard managers today (I'm sure they've got a fancier name than that these days, mind), who got involved in dealing with the aftermath of the incident the next day.  Apparently there were two separate people involved, the first was by what sounds like a right tosser in First Class with a Standard Class ticket who was very verbally abusive and taking pictures of the TM without his permission, but he got off at Reading.  There was a second incident, less serious, after that - perhaps that's the straw that broke the camels back though with the TM?  It's probably fair to say that the TM concerned, whilst excellent in many aspects of his role, is probably less inclined just to walk away from an incident as he perhaps should on occasions!

Prob not Avon & Somerset as a whole but Somerset. I.e. Weston/bridgwater/Taunton

From the BTP website:


Hmm.  Allowing for shift work, annual leave, sick leave, training, admin, etc. - that leaves them spread fairly thinly, out and about on the railway network at any one time, I'd suggest.

A Chief Constable once told me that BTP actually stood for Be There Presently, whilst most railway staff know that it actually stands for Be There Perhaps.  ;)

Also known as Cave Dwellers, cos that's were they spend most of their time, on the underground.

The Buns and Tea Police, surely?

Alas, it's all gone wrong this morning, due to "an obstruction on the line between Moreton and Oxford".

05:17 Malvern - Padd'n and 05:34 Hereford - Padd'n both sent round via Swindon.
Halts train cancelled.
06:43 Hereford - Padd'n running via Moreton but reported on National Rail website as "may be delayed".

05:48 Padd'n - Malvern didn't run beyond Oxford. Which should prevent the 08:58 Malvern - Padd'n (which is what I wanted) from operating, but there's no mention of it on the FGW website (yet). Perhaps they'll use the halts train for that...

could the mods move the post above to bad morning? No obvious connection to redoubling, problem at Hanborough apparently

And another one. Some problem at Hanborough apparently.

National Rail notice



FGW seems to suggest service now running again, as a note about the 05.02 from worcester suffering a 122-minute delay at Kingham has disappeared but no info on what's happeeing to other services for the rest of the morning yet.

09:00

The 09:09 and 10:05 from Foregate St to Padd'n has been cancelled. Station staff are saying it's due to "ricks on the line at Combe". A bus to Oxford instead.

They've apparently got stock but no crew. The halts train didn't run this morning, so that's presumably sitting around. But the crew have probably gone back to Oxford in a taxi.

Let's just wait until the real reason for the obstruction turns up. My betting is on this morning's problem being associated with the engineering works.

Landslip in the cutting where a road bridge crosses the line south of Stonesfield, to the east of Charlbury. Trains passing at walking pace, nothing to do with redoubling.

Empty stock for halts service hit a lump of rock and bent something on the leading bogie. Parked in a siding at Moreton-in-Marsh at 9.30 with a fitter underneath hammering away at it.

OK - I'm obviously paranoid, expecting that the obstruction was down to the engineering work!

Meanwhile, have just read earlier post:

For "ricks" read "rocks".

I think you are right Ollie,  Different people react differently.  Whilst it might be reasonable to expect some characters to strug off abuse and get on with their job, other's will be shaken up* and I wouldn't want someone in that kind of state responsible for my safety.

*Many years ago, I witnessed a respectable looking passenger (with a todler!) give the (very large - tall and wide) TM verbal grief and a bit of physical argie-bargie (not actual violence).  I went to offer my contact details to the TM as a witness and found this huge man sitting on the floor of the kitchen with a cup of tea and almost in tears.  Abuse does have a significant impact on some people and whilst staff are presumably trained to deal with it and not take it personally, I don't think you can blame staff for feeling unable to continue if they are a target of it. 

In the interests of peacekeeping - done!  ;D

Chris.  ;)

Thanks Tim - personally if I reported everytime someone got heated (as in shouting/swearing etc) I'd probably have to fill a form every day that I am on shift. I luckily haven't been physically assaulted, but it's been threatened. (and this from someone who tries to always be a polite and helpful member of staff :) )

As you say, some easily shrug it off, others take it personally.

The way I usually see it, is I wear an FGW badge, which is peoples cue to have a go - I have had it get to me in the past - but it's sad to say - I'm used to it now.

Ollie, et al.
If I had to fill in a verbal abuse form everytime I was sworn at or abused I would only be out on the platform for around 3 mins. 5 mins without being sworn, abused, called w/c/d/ etc is unusual.

Now if I get a physical assault or threat I will fill in the form and get the ..... er..... person nicked. Physical assault is likely to result in me defending myself (using reasonable and proportionate force as is reasonable in the circumstances) and them being detained under S.16 Railway Regulation Act 1840. Never happened yet!

And another one...

Line problem between Evesham and Worcester Foregate Street.
Train services between Evesham and Worcester Foregate Street are being disrupted due to signalling problems. Engineers are working as fast as possible to restore services to normal. Short notice alterations, cancellations and delays of up to 60 minutes can be expected.
Last Updated: 17/12/2010 08:18

05:48 London Paddington to Great Malvern due 08:36
This train has been delayed at Southall and is now 52 minutes late from Moreton-In-Marsh.This train will be terminated at Worcester Shrub Hill.It will no longer call at: Worcester Foregate Street, Malvern Link and Great Malvern.This is due to signalling problems.
Last Updated: 17/12/2010 08:28

06:43 Hereford to London Paddington due 09:47
This train has been delayed at Hereford and is now 23 minutes late from Malvern Link.This is due to signalling problems.
Last Updated: 17/12/2010 07:50

6:48 London Paddington to Great Malvern due 09:31
This train has been delayed at Southall and is now 20 minutes late from Oxford.This is due to signalling problems.
Last Updated: 17/12/2010 08:38

08:58 Great Malvern to London Paddington due 11:29
This train will be started from Worcester Shrub Hill.It will no longer call at: Great Malvern, Malvern Link and Worcester Foregate Street.This is due to signalling problems.
Last Updated: 17/12/2010 07:57

09:29 Moreton-In-Marsh to London Paddington due 12:03
This train will be started from Oxford.It will no longer call at: Moreton-In-Marsh, Kingham and Charlbury.This is due to signalling problems.
Last Updated: 17/12/2010 07:53

Paddington arrivals:
Great Malvern   due 0759   expected 0857   
Hereford   due 0851   expected 0859 (via Stroud perhaps? Anyone know)

06:51 Worcester Foregate Street to Oxford due 08:12
This train will be started from Moreton-In-Marsh.It will no longer call at: Worcester Foregate Street, Worcester Shrub Hill, Pershore and Evesham.This is due to signalling problems. Last Updated: 17/12/2010 05:42

Starting to feel like the winters of 2006-7 and 2007-8 again. Got to be the worst week on the Cotswold Line since 2008.