Great Western Coffee Shop

I have a question, I imagine that most of the money comes from us comuters. We certainly use the trains more than most. We are doing our bit for the carbon foot print in the UK. So would it not be a good idea for us to be respected, cherished and perhaps even looked after and valued?

Now I know we get reductions in our fares if we buy month+ tickets, which is great (never enough but...) however we do have to put up with the cramped conditions on trains, delays and then often having to work our lunch hours to make up time becuase our trains have been delayd, therefore would it not be nice if, by holding a season photo card, it would enable us to have a discount on other train journeys that we perhaps make outside of our usual commute. It would just be a little thank you, a little perk to show that we are valued?

Also, what about a commuters lounge? Somewhere we could show our ticket, gain access in the warm and dry, and perhaps discounted coffee & Tea, especially if we are there becuase of delayed trains or worse still cancelled ones.

Is this really barmy? wishful dreaming, or something to campaigne for? Any thoughts?  ;)

There's already a Network Gold Card (and Partners card for an extra ^1) if you have an annual season ticket within the former NSE area.

I like the idea of a commuters lounge..

On the Southampton to Waterloo route, regular commuters pay 40% of the walk up price for a seven day season. Approx ^100 for seven days vs ^50 for an Anytime return, from memory.
 
What that says to me is that regulation of prices has led to the season being incredibly good value, and if holders can't cope with travelling in trains with every seat taken and a few people standing they should get a different job...

Paul

Reductions for season tickets can already exceed 75%.   How much more do you want?

See:  http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=4520.0

As someone who travels quite a lot, but doesn't have a regular journey so can't take advantage of season ticket discounts, I'm somewhat envious os those who's journeys happen to be on the same route each time and so can get these enormous discounts.   I feel unduly stung most of the time - as if I'm playing uphill all the time!

Does anyone know if there is anything like this on FGW?

There will be for those areas of FGW's network within the Network Card area.

http://www.railcard.co.uk/clientfiles/File/map.pdf

Paul

I've written a couple of long screeds here about how commuters are really something of a problem for the railway. What is boils down to is this:

1. Commuters with season tickets get a whopping discount compared to walk-up fares
2. They travel at peak times, morning and evening

To give every commuter a seat would require vast amounts of rolling stock that would make perhaps only one or two revenue journeys a day (so over a week perhaps just 10 productive trips), then spend the rest of the time either running around empty using electricity/fuel or sitting in a siding, all the while costing money for maintenance, capital costs etc.

There's nothing new here, it's always been the same. Bluntly, it's not affordable, economic or even feasible to give all commuters a seat. The late Gerry Fiennes wrote about this dilemma during his railway career (which started out on the LNER in the 1930s and continued until he reached very senior positions in BR management in the 1960s before being de-frocked by Barbara Castle for writing a somewhat controversial memoir, I tried to run a railway).

Edited to add...

Re the Gold Card, looks like the whole of the North Downs line qualifies, so from what I infer about your journey if you had an annual season it would be a Gold Card.

FGW also runs occasional promotions for season ticket holders such as this one (http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Survey.aspx?id=5181) which from a quick read looks like it allows travel anywhere on the FGW network in first class for GBP20.00 return at weekends, although I haven't read the small print.

I seem to recall an article several years ago, where fares expert, Barry Doe, suggested people may like to buy an annual season ticket between two of the cheapest stations to receive the benefits of the gold card.

How here's one for those with NFM07....

I believe the cheapest annual season you can get within the former NSE area is Newhaven Town to Newhaven harbour which is ^132. 

Anyone do better than that?

Ryde Pier Head to Ryde Esplande is the one that often gets quoted as the cheapest annual season ticket you could buy in the former NSE area.

Esplanade to Pierhead shows at GBP 208.00 in NFM07, so looks like the Newhaven ticket is cheaper, assuming those are both in the Network area.

Ryde Esplanade to Ryde St John's Road is also only ^132 for 12 month season.

That's the one.

Season tickets are indeed very heavily discounted and can be worthwile for relatively limited use.
As an example, first class single London to Taunton is about ^150, and a weekly season is ^600. Two days use would just about justify the season ticket, and three days would give a large saving.

commuters often pay the least (via massive discounts for season tcikets) and cost the most to carry (cos they travel at the busiest times)

I wouldn't favour privileging them any further.

But we use the trains more, and we are helping reduce this countries carbon foot print. We are staple income and therefore help keep the railways going.

Debatable - read the posts above.

Whilst in absolute terms you're handing over considerable sums to the railways, per mile you're travelling at a huge discount over most. Add into this the fact that train companies need to lease, maintain and operate large amounts of stock to cater for commuter demand which may not make many journeys earning revenue outside a couple of peak trips Monday to Friday and the suggestion that commuters keep the railways going becomes somewhat less black and white.

Abolish season tickets and make everyone pay for normal tickets.
You'll soon stop moaning when you realise what discount you get.

So who should get a seat?
A person with a gold card with massive discount....
A person with a walk up peak anytime ticket....

My amended emphasis on your question.

My answer ... everyone who wants a seat and is travelling on a the train for 30 minutes or more should be able to get one.  Isn't there a DfT paper somewhere that talks about when people can be reasonably expected to stand?

The overcrowding guidelines are summarised in the DfT FOI reply in the recent thread about FGW 'top ten' services.
Basically, for services that have no stops within 20 mins of the major [London] terminus, the capacity is just the number of seats, and no one should stand at all.  For stopping services the capacity is generally seats plus a number per m^2 usable floor area.

ISTM that even in an ideal world, with seats for all, there will be those who insist that sitting at the wrong end of the train for their stop won't be acceptable, and in any case there will always be those who'd rather stand than travel 10 mins earlier or later - as the DFT suggested in their Woking - Waterloo example.

Ah - thanks.  Got it - http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=8288.0


So the official answer to SDS Pad's question, at least in relation to services from Paddington with a first stop or Reading, is Everyone should get a seat if they want one, though they may have to move down the train.  The official answer on Reading -> Basingstoke, where there is standing allowed for (less than 20 minutes, not departing from London) is less clear when it comes to questioning who should be seated and who should not.

Sorry - SDS Pad - this doesn't give you folks at Paddington a practical answer when you have people fighting over seats!

As an aside, if the rule is different for services from London that don't stop within 20 minutes and all other services, does that mean that CrossCountry trains are at liberty to apply the local level (standee) loadings on even their longer distance services.

I consider it reasonable to sell season tickets at a slight discount, if only because less time is spent on selling numerous single or return tickets.
The present discount seems excesive though, since as others point out, expensive rolling stock has to be purchased for limited rush hour only use.

Ideally there should be a seat for every ticket holder except on very short journies.
In practice this is not the case, and I would argue that the holder of a full fare ticket has more right to a seat than the season ticket holder paying half fare.

Exactly what I think as well.

Sorry sir but this person who has paid ^200 for their SOR ticket has more of a right to a seat then you whos paid an average of ^70 for the same ticket. Yeah you may have paid ^5000 but pro rata youve paid next to nothing.

I think we need to consider the wider "society" issues in this question.

There is a high demand for travel (by all modes) at peak periods.  Trains are busy and roads are slow.  If we increase the cost of season tickets, we will increase the level of road congestion and probably damage the economies of our major towns and cities.  Depending on the elasticity of demand (in relation to other modes), we may also reduce overall revenue to the train operator.

Having some stock which is only used at peak periods is not necessarily a bad thing.  It can receive maintenance between the peaks so less maintenance capacity is required, with the balance of the stock receiving maintenance at night.  It also provides capacity for other high demand occasions at weekends.

Season-ticket holding commuters are the staple of the railways and provide them with financial certainty, which is why they get a discount and a few fringe benefits.  From the train operator's point of view, it also locks in customers for a period. 

Clearly we need more stock to meet current and future demand but we shouldn't discriminate against the railway's core customers, just because there are too many of them for the capacity of our rolling stock!

By the way, I'm not a season ticket holder!