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Title: ICE3 at STP. Post by: SDS on October 17, 2010, 15:02:08 I know the ceremony will be the 19th Oct at STP. But has anyone got any idea of times? Theres nothing in TRUST for it but then I only have access to FGW land so it prob wont show me the 'sensitive' trains on SE
Title: Re: ICE3 at STP. Post by: devon_metro on October 17, 2010, 15:09:25 If you are looking for STP then that might explain why it doesn't show. International departures are from SPX.
Title: Re: ICE3 at STP. Post by: SDS on October 17, 2010, 19:26:47 STP - Meaning St Pancras generally. It wouldn't show on STP or SPX anyway as I don't have a TRUST login that shows international trains.
Title: Re: ICE3 at STP. Post by: willc on October 17, 2010, 21:57:03 I gather it is very early in the morning, as they want to make a splash on breakfast TV and radio.
Title: Re: ICE3 at STP. Post by: johoare on October 17, 2010, 22:21:08 Just to humour me.. and anyone else that might not know.. What is ICE3 please?
Title: Re: ICE3 at STP. Post by: Toiletdriver on October 17, 2010, 22:27:04 A train that will embarass Branson and certain TOCs.
An EMU with 1st and 2nd class, compartments and open accomendation. Full resturant service, buffet area and a trolley service. Seats that mainly line up with windows!!! And if on the later build ICE trains, the driver might let you watch through a window into the driving cab. An absoultely disgusting and horrible modern train! http://www.seat61.com/Germany.htm and scroll down for pictures. Title: Re: ICE3 at STP. Post by: grahame on October 17, 2010, 22:44:44 I think this is one
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/nqls6.jpg) Title: Re: ICE3 at STP. Post by: johoare on October 17, 2010, 22:47:11 Thank you.. So are they aiming to run these from St Pancras? or the ceremony is for something else? Sorry if I've missed something posted elsewhere on this.. I've been a little bit more than busy :)
Title: Re: ICE3 at STP. Post by: Toiletdriver on October 17, 2010, 23:14:44 Yes Graham, you have the right picture.
DB wish to run London to Koln, Frankfurt etc trains. Title: Re: ICE3 at STP. Post by: anthony215 on October 17, 2010, 23:35:33 I know the ceremony will be the 19th Oct at STP. But has anyone got any idea of times? Theres nothing in TRUST for it but then I only have access to FGW land so it prob wont show me the 'sensitive' trains on SE Hi I have had the times emailed to me. The ICE3 is expected to arrive into St Pancras International at 03:00 on tuesday where it will stable in platform 5 til late evening before being hauled back through the tunnel. If you are planning on photographing it then be warned as it is on the international platforms you will have to photograph through the glass screen. Title: Re: ICE3 at STP. Post by: SDS on October 18, 2010, 00:19:55 Any chance of you PMing those times to me?
Title: Re: ICE3 at STP. Post by: eightf48544 on October 18, 2010, 10:55:32 An absoultely disgusting and horrible modern train! Couldn't agree with you more! Recently spent 11 hours on them from Paris Est to Saarbrucken (1st) and Brussels to Frankfurt (2nd) both return it was absolute hell! Comfortable seats in both classes the only diffence is size and leg room out back in open in first , 2nd out in open back in compartment. seats line up with windows. Wide corridors buffet with draft beer at seat meals in 1st. Good ride. Speed indicator we only got up to about 325 so not full 330. Fantastic brakes we came to stand from 100 mph plus in less than a mile. 168 kilometre in an hour Frankfurt Cologne, then took an 11/2 hr from St. Pancrs to Padd (tube strike) As I say absolutely appaling trains if DaFT has any sense they will take one look at them and ban them. Title: Re: ICE3 at STP. Post by: tramway on October 18, 2010, 15:17:55 They are so bad even Eurostar are buying them. ;)
From Wikipedia Quote Eurostar e320 Eurostar 320-branded Siemens Velaro at its press launch in London On 7 October 2010, it was reported that Eurostar had selected Siemens as preferred bidder to supply 10 Velaro e320[21] trainsets at a cost of ^600 million (and a total investment of more than ^700 million with the refurbishment of the existing fleet included)[22] to operate an expanded route network, including services from London to Cologne and Amsterdam.[23] These would be sixteen-car, 400 metres (1,300 ft) long trainsets built to meet current Channel Tunnel regulations, and would not be the same as the eight-car 200m Velaro D sets which Deutsche Bahn wants to operate to London.[23] The top speed will be 320 km/h and they will have more than 900 seats.[21] As the ICE3 is going to be dragged through the Tunnel it will be interesting to see how DB get on with thier attempts to get the authority to run. http://www.railwaygazette.com/nc/news/single-view/view/db-prepares-for-channel-tunnel-tests.html Although from the same family (Velaro) as the e320 I'm sure certification of the ICE3, if it comes, can only help towards clearance of the e320, likely to save a bob or 2 on the e320 bid don't you think. Unless Siemens/DB are considering their own order for e320's. Title: Re: ICE3 at STP. Post by: grahame on October 18, 2010, 15:56:14 I'm finding it a little hard to understand what the big danger is in running a 200m long train rather than a 400m long one ... I *think* I can appreciate the need to have an evacuation route, etc, but isn't there already a lot more provided for escape than in (say) a 153 from Roman Bridge to Blaeneau Ffestinog? How does the Channel Tunnel's case stack up against domestic tunnel cases such as that example?
(See CF508 at http://www.prar.fsnet.co.uk/Class_153_Diagrams_2H06_v1.html ) Edit to add ... I noted those diagrams were all pairs of 153s ... but here is a link to a picture of a single 153 that I searched out to assure myself that they will go through the tunnel as singles. http://www.dilan4.com/pictures/gogcymru/trenbet.jpg Title: Re: ICE3 at STP. Post by: eightf48544 on October 18, 2010, 16:41:21 I think the perceived danger is that a 400 metre train will always stop beside an escape door thus passengers detraining will have a train beside them on the whole length of their walk.
With a shorter train there is chance that it won't stop by a door so passengers will have to walk on a fairly narrow platform with no protection to prevent them falling onto the track. Clapham Common in the peak! Title: Re: ICE3 at STP. Post by: Brucey on October 19, 2010, 08:30:18 Train has arrived, there is now a short video on the BBC News website
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11567753 Title: Re: ICE3 at STP. Post by: Tim on October 19, 2010, 09:09:33 I think the perceived danger is that a 400 metre train will always stop beside an escape door thus passengers detraining will have a train beside them on the whole length of their walk. that is the issue, and although Grahame is right to question this requirement in comparison with domestic tunnels, it needs to be remembered that the Chunnel has had 3 serious fires already. Mind you, I think that the last one demonstrated that escape into the service tunnel isn't straightforward even when there is an escape door near as smoke and confusion can prevent efficient evacuation to it. Proper signage, and the availability well trained staff would IMHO be much more important factors in an evacuation. Title: Re: ICE3 at STP. Post by: Electric train on October 19, 2010, 16:02:29 The tunnel and train safety systems were designed over 20 years ago, technology used in trains has changed, lessons (should have) learned especially from the shambles last winter on how to evacuate and or rescue a train.
I feel that a new operator wanting to move in will raise the game of the existing operator, it will also open up the market for new rolling stock at 20 years old the Eroustar fleet is over half life given the time for procurement and testing of new trains the process needs to start soon. With DB proposal to operate trains through the tunnel may be they might act out Edward Watkin's dream and run a train over his London extension using a TOC that DB already own Title: Re: ICE3 at STP. Post by: paul7575 on October 19, 2010, 19:06:53 With DB proposal to operate trains through the tunnel may be they might act out Edward Watkin's dream and run a train over his London extension using a TOC that DB already own Nice idea, but I'd suspect there's little likelihood of DB rebuilding any UK infrastructure to meet their gauging requirements, or buying UK gauge 'toy trains' to run on the continental network... :( Paul Title: Re: ICE3 at STP. Post by: onthecushions on October 19, 2010, 22:10:40 Came through Londres Midi at 1750, today, Tuesday 19/10, off EMT and saw the ICE. Very impressive if a bit retro in style - rather VW beetle in fact. Like French Eurostars that show the logo "SNCF" on their noses, it sports plenty of proud "DB" signs (means German Federal Railways). If a National Railway is an icon of national (and ruling class) competence then it reflects badly on our betters. I'm glad to see the Europeans working into UK - just incandescent with those traitors who destroyed our National Railway. OTC Title: Re: ICE3 at STP. Post by: willc on October 19, 2010, 22:38:07 Quote the Chunnel has had 3 serious fires already All three of which started on lorry shuttle trains which didn't have fire suppressing equipment on them, which doesn't strike me as very hyper-safety-conscious, given the serious damage that two of them did. Quote Nice idea, but I'd suspect there's little likelihood of DB rebuilding any UK infrastructure to meet their gauging requirements, or buying UK gauge 'toy trains' to run on the continental network... You might be surprised. The ICE-T (for tilt) and the ICE-TD (diesel variant) do have smaller body profiles and could well fit on much ex-GWR infrastructure I posted the following back in December 2008 in a thread about electrification where clearances were mentioned in the context of future use for Turbos. Quote Getting slightly off-topic, the current issue of Today's Railways Europe says that when DB stored its tilting ICE-TD DMUs in 2002-3, an unnamed UK operator did go to look at them with a view to using them on ex-GWR routes, because the tilt capability meant they are slightly narrower than your typical European train and would fit through Brunel bridges. The stumbling block was their length, at 27m more typical of Europe, which meant they would foul curved platforms Title: Re: ICE3 at STP. Post by: eightf48544 on October 20, 2010, 09:09:31 Intersting last comment willc re 27 mtr coaches wasn't IEP meant to be 26 m?
Title: Re: ICE3 at STP. Post by: willc on October 20, 2010, 14:47:22 Indeed, which would have required something to be done to the platforms at places like Bath and Bristol Temple Meads, to name but two.
Should perhaps add that the ICE-TD is Germany's answer to the Adelante, just 20 built and a rather chequered record, thought they do seem to have settled down in recent years, working Hamburg-Denmark services. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICE_TD Title: Re: ICE3 at STP. Post by: willc on October 20, 2010, 16:01:24 And what should have just landed in my inbox, quite by coincidence I'm sure, but an email from Eurostar, urging me to use its services to reach Cologne...
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