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Journey by Journey => Shorter journeys in South and West Wales => Topic started by: JayMac on October 05, 2010, 00:46:10



Title: Mother defeats football yobs by staging rail protest (25 September 2010)
Post by: JayMac on October 05, 2010, 00:46:10
From the Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1317727/Mum-defeats-yobs-standing-track-stop-train-foul-mouthed-football-mob-traps-family--rail-staff-refuse-police.html):

Quote
Mother defeats gang of football yobs by staging railway track protest until staff who refused to intervene FINALLY call police

When a gang of drunken football yobs began hurling foul abuse at a mother and her five-year-old son on a train, she presumed someone would intervene. But the driver refused to call the police or stop the train and the guard was nowhere to be seen. Faced with giving in or standing up to the 30-strong group, Lisa Robinson decided to take them on. When the train reached her station she got off and stood in front of it, refusing to move until the driver called police. Rail company Arriva then terminated the train there, leaving the abusive fans to make their own way home.

Yesterday Mrs Robinson said: ^It was a terrifying experience, but I^m glad I did it. It was a victory for ordinary people.^

The 41-year-old mother had been on a day out with her husband Peter, 61, and their son Harry to celebrate his fifth birthday. The couple, civil servants from Ystrad Mynach near Caerphilly in South Wales, had taken Harry to Cardiff before returning home on the Arriva service. As they boarded the two-carriage train on Saturday September 25, they realised it was full of drunken Cardiff City fans who had just seen their team beat Millwall. The family tried to ignore the shouting and swearing hooligans, but when the train arrived at a station and the gang began abusing a woman on the platform, Mrs Robinson decided to intervene.

^I walked down to the group and asked the main perpetrator to stop swearing,^ she said. ^They then turned their abuse on me, calling me a ^dyke^ and a string of four-letter words. Nobody said anything. I was terrified. I wanted to alert the guard, but there was no way into the next carriage so we were completely trapped. Then they swore at my husband, who was sitting with Harry, and taunted him about his age. By the time the train set off again I was crying and shaking.^

She was so frightened she pulled the emergency handle at the next station. But she said that when the driver got into the carriage, he simply reset the alarm and went back to drive the train, ignoring her husband^s request to call the police.

Mrs Robinson added: ^The train carried on for another two stops, with the abuse continuing, until it arrived at our station, Ystrad Mynach. When I got off I had Harry in my arms and he was crying. The driver completely ignored us and told us to take it up with the guard. We had not seen one for the entire journey ^ I think he had been too frightened to intervene. It was then I decided to take direct action. I spoke to the driver who again ignored me ^ he wouldn^t even take his sunglasses off to talk to me. So I handed Harry to Peter, got on to the tracks and stopped the train from leaving the station. Some of the football yobs got off to give me more abuse and take pictures of me on their mobiles.^

She said the guard then appeared and asked her to move, which she refused to do. She eventually moved after the station controller promised her he would not move the train and that the police would be called. Two British Transport Police officers arrived and, after discussions with railway officials, the train was terminated. Mrs Robinson said yesterday that she was glad she had made a stand and would do it again.

^I think too often these yobs are allowed to get away with it,^ she added. ^When the thugs started kicking off, one woman said to me that I should accept it as it was just the world we live in. But I refuse to live in a society where this sort of thing goes unpunished. Arriva sent me flowers and apologies, but what they really need to do is plan to make sure these things don^t happen. They knew there was a football game on and should have laid on extra staff. Instead, they had one guard who I^m convinced was hiding in the other carriage. I still can^t believe the driver ignored my husband when he asked him to phone the police.^

Peter Northcott, head of stations at Arriva Trains Wales, said: ^We take all complaints very seriously and I personally contacted Mr and Mrs Robinson on the day of this incident. A full investigation is taking place with the British Transport Police.^

A spokesman for British Transport Police said: ^Inquiries, including viewing CCTV and speaking to witnesses who were on the train, which was travelling between Penarth and Bargoed, are ongoing.^




Title: Re: Mother defeats football yobs by staging rail protest (25 September 2010)
Post by: readytostart on October 05, 2010, 03:19:12
Well I'm guessing this is one of those situations which is never ideal where a unit is running in multiple with no access between the sets.
From a personal point of view, if someone requests me to call the police then I do just that, and it is up to the bobbies to decide if it is a waste of their time.
I don't condone trespass on the railway, though this looks quite like the crew knew what was going on and there was no danger of injury.


Title: Re: Mother defeats football yobs by staging rail protest (25 September 2010)
Post by: JayMac on October 05, 2010, 03:48:16
Imagine how apoplectic the Daily Mail and its readers would've been if the police had arrested her for trespass!


Title: Re: Mother defeats football yobs by staging rail protest (25 September 2010)
Post by: Tim on October 05, 2010, 09:08:08
Quite.  Standing on the tracks is a stupid thing to do whateverthe circumstances.  But I agree with RTS, the driver ought to have called the police.  It is not his job to decide if a call is needed.


Title: Re: Mother defeats football yobs by staging rail protest (25 September 2010)
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 05, 2010, 10:56:48
I wonder whether those on board who were not behaving badly and were going beyond Ystrad Mynach were impressed with their train being cancelled by her actions though?


Title: Re: Mother defeats football yobs by staging rail protest (25 September 2010)
Post by: Mookiemoo on October 05, 2010, 11:41:37
To be honest, I actually admire her for this

Having travelled frequently on trains back from liverpool after the football and even recently only last week where I was abused for asking the drunks to shut up, and nothing was done except me being told to move - something needs to be done


Title: Re: Mother defeats football yobs by staging rail protest (25 September 2010)
Post by: SDS on October 05, 2010, 12:00:03
BTP need to bo**ock her for going onto the track.
What kind of example does it set, oh ill go down onto the track cos I'm not getting my own way. What would have happened if the driver had only just come back from having had to deal with a 1 under? Flashbacks defo.

Sorry but I have no sympathy for her, that went out the window when she went down onto the track.


Title: Re: Mother defeats football yobs by staging rail protest (25 September 2010)
Post by: Brucey on October 05, 2010, 15:22:09
BTP need to bo**ock her for going onto the track.
What kind of example does it set, oh ill go down onto the track cos I'm not getting my own way.
Have to agree with this.  It is unfortunate that the driver didn't do anything and the guard couldn't be seen, but this wouldn't have stopped them from calling the police themselves.  Or even alighting at an intermediate station and taking a later train (if the situation was that bad).

The article states the train was 2 coaches, so why couldn't she access the other coach?


Title: Re: Mother defeats football yobs by staging rail protest (25 September 2010)
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on October 05, 2010, 16:55:03
Brucey and SDS, how sad you are.  She was the victim, not the guilty party. Direct action is sometimes the only way to take a stand in this type of situation.  The thrust of this thread should be how anti-social behavious on trains can be stamped out, not about criticising how the victims react to it.

The saftey argument doesn't stand up to scrutiny.  Walking in front of a stationery train in full view of the driver is not necessarily dangerous.  Well done to the lady I say. 


Title: Re: Mother defeats football yobs by staging rail protest (25 September 2010)
Post by: JayMac on October 05, 2010, 17:18:54
Gordon, can I ask that we don't call others sad, just for expressing an alternative point of view. I happen to agree that this lady's actions were potentially dangerous, let alone all the inconvenience she caused.

Would it've been acceptable for her to do the same in 3rd rail land?

There are many dangers she could've faced doing what she did, such as a slip or fall. Ok, only dangerous to herself but then that's why we have laws regarding trespass on the railway.

Aside from inconveniencing the yobs (who, it appears, deserved it) she also inconvenienced other passengers wishing to continue their journey as well as those further down the line who may've been waiting for this train. Then there are the costs borne by ATW for the cancellation.

Yes, we have frustrations when those with a duty of care fail in that duty, but it doesn't give us the right to take the law into our own hands.

As for the 'thrust of this thread' that's entirely up to the individual posters. We can debate the anti-social behaviour and this ladies' actions.



Title: Re: Mother defeats football yobs by staging rail protest (25 September 2010)
Post by: Tim on October 05, 2010, 17:26:48
Gordon.

Two rights don't make a wrong.  The BTP need to deliver "appropriate advice" to the lady (although not charge her) and Arriva need to speak to the driver to make sure that he understands that when a member of the public asks for the police to be called then the police should be called.

Her actions were wrong and potentially dangerous.  Now there were mitigating circumstances which mean that I don't think that she should be prosecuted, but that does not change the fact that her actions were wrong. 


Title: Re: Mother defeats football yobs by staging rail protest (25 September 2010)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 05, 2010, 17:54:06
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-11474308):

Quote
Woman on track halts train after Cardiff fans' abuse

A mother subjected to "obscene" insults by football fans on a train stood on the track at a railway station until police were called.

Lisa Robinson, 41, was on the train with her husband and son, five, when they were verbally abused by Cardiff City fans after a win over Millwall.

She stepped on to the tracks at Ystrad Mynach until police arrived.

The train was terminated and the fans had to end the journey on foot. British Transport Police are investigating.

Ms Robinson, a civil servant, and her husband Peter, 61, were on a day trip to Cardiff on 25 September to celebrate the their son's birthday and were returning home.

She said about 30 drunken Cardiff fans were on the Penarth-to-Bargoed Arriva Trains Wales service, celebrating their team's win after an early home kick-off against the London club.

She said things turned nasty when they began shouting sexist chants at a woman on the platform at Lisvane railway station and Ms Robinson asked them to stop.

She said: "Then their chanting became directly to me and it became sexist and quite obscene until by the time we got Caerphilly, I pulled the red handle and stopped the train."

The train driver came out and Mr Robinson asked him to call the police, but the driver reset the handle and continued with the journey.

The family were then "effectively trapped" on the train until they arrived at their home station of Ystrad Mynach, said Ms Robinson.

At the station the family got off the train and Ms Robinson again asked the driver to call the police but he refused, so she decided to take "direct action".

Ms Robinson said: "I slithered down off the platform on to the track. I wanted to protect both my husband and my child and I wanted this behaviour to stop. Some of the fans got off the train and took pictures of me with mobile phones and continued to abuse me.

"This is my community, this is my village. We're not going to be bullied and certainly for women and families, they should be able to travel on the train in peace and quiet and go about their business without being bullied like that."

The police were eventually called, and the service was terminated.

Wayne David, Labour MP for Caerphilly, called the "apparent inactivity" of Arriva Trains Wales and British Transport Police "unacceptable" and said he would be in touch with them about the incident. "No member of the public should be subject to abuse of this kind and it must never happen again," he added.

British Transport Police said: "BTP officers attended Ystrad Mynach railway station after a report that a woman had been verbally abused by a group of football fans after she challenged their behaviour on board the train. BTP does not tolerate anti-social behaviour of any nature on the railway network and will do everything it can to identify offenders and bring them to justice."

Peter Northcott, head of stations at Arriva Trains Wales, said: "We take all complaints very seriously and I personally contacted Mr and Mrs Robinson on the day of this incident. A full investigation is taking place with the British Transport Police."


Title: Re: Mother defeats football yobs by staging rail protest (25 September 2010)
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on October 05, 2010, 18:44:16
Gordon, can I ask that we don't call others sad, just for expressing an alternative point of view.


Crikey, is "sad" now a term of abuse?  I've read posts on this blog that are far more critical of others than was mine.  As you say, we're all entitled to our view, and surely we wouldn't want to discourage posts that might cause a bit of controversy now and again.  That would be a sad day indeed.


Title: Re: Mother defeats football yobs by staging rail protest (25 September 2010)
Post by: basset44 on October 05, 2010, 20:49:49
Hi All,

In this article they mention a Code of conduct

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2010/10/05/no-regrets-from-mum-who-tackled-football-yobs-91466-27408612/

Which is displayed on most trains, but in this case was not enforced. There seems to be a lot of things done wrong and that does not excuss the actions taken.

Basset


Title: Re: Mother defeats football yobs by staging rail protest (25 September 2010)
Post by: Phil on October 05, 2010, 20:55:42
There's a strong chance that a civil servant working in Cardiff works for the tax office - and quite frankly, I'd hesitate to take one of them on as well....


Title: Re: Mother defeats football yobs by staging rail protest (25 September 2010)
Post by: SDS on October 05, 2010, 23:04:02
Brucey and SDS, how sad you are.  .....

So I'm sad am I, for merely expressing my opinions? I wont contribute any more then as further posts of mine could be classed as sad by you and distress you further.

SDS out


Title: Re: Mother defeats football yobs by staging rail protest (25 September 2010)
Post by: Mookiemoo on October 05, 2010, 23:19:08
I have been a passenger on a train with late night drunks or drunken football fans - I think I have posted more than once on the topic

Fact is - damage limitation is NOT acceptable - its just not

I understand the problems caused but there has to be some system in place to deal

End of



Title: Re: Mother defeats football yobs by staging rail protest (25 September 2010)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 05, 2010, 23:35:18
Hmm.  May I ask that members please take a moment to cool down here?

We in the admin team have obviously noted this topic, and the use of a certain word in a post - and we raised a slight concern.

In itself, the word 'sad' is open to all sorts of interpretations - from the traditional, 'someone who is downcast, not light hearted', to a perhaps more modern usage, suggesting 'pathetic'.

We really don't want to prescribe which common words in modern usage are acceptable or not, on this forum, so I'd just like to ask, again, that we take a moment, and then continue this very valid discussion - but perhaps without using such apparently emotive words?

Thanks,  ;)

Chris from Nailsea.
Administrator.


Title: Re: Mother defeats football yobs by staging rail protest (25 September 2010)
Post by: Glovidge on October 06, 2010, 00:04:41
UNderstandably this is all over the Cardiff City messageboard 4 pages and counting...

http://www.ccmb.co.uk/fudforum/index.php?t=msg&th=238254&start=0&rid=9644&S=2cca8ac816c68b92185814f8ef8167a9

The match that the incident took place afterwards was against Millwall on 25th Sept. Why has this only just made it into the news on the 5th October then?  ???

Some posters on the City messageboard claim to have been on the train in question and are claiming the media reports are grossly over-exagerrated and some say the woman was equally to blame as the 30 yobs, which witnesses claim were actually about 8 kids?

How long do these incidents usually take to investigate? Why has this become the main item on the Welsh news today? Why would you leave your 5yo child in a state of distress to stand on railway tracks? Isn't that a more serious offence than drunk and disorderly?



And as for the


Title: Re: Mother defeats football yobs by staging rail protest (25 September 2010)
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on October 06, 2010, 08:38:50
I'm sure that Arriva like all train operating companies aspire to a safe and non-threatening environment for all their passenegers. That may be their policy, but from a Health & Safety angle I wonder what their arrangments are for implementing this policy? Are there procedures for traincrew to follow when individual or group behaviour becomes unacceptable, and the traincrew are unable to resolve?  Are there any/enough BTP or civil police to attend incidents?

But surely doing nothing is not an option.  We must not turn a blind eye to anti-social behaviour.



Title: Re: Mother defeats football yobs by staging rail protest (25 September 2010)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 07, 2010, 17:41:23
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-11494134):

Quote
CCTV of soccer fans whose abuse led to train protest

CCTV images have been released of 10 men accused of "obscene" behaviour to a female train passenger prompting her to stand in protest on the track until police were called.

Lisa Robinson, 41, her husband and son, five, were verbally abused by Cardiff City fans on the Penarth-Bargoed service on Saturday 25 September.

She halted the train at Ystrad Mynach after her complaints went unheeded.

The Bluebirds fans were travelling home after a home win over Millwall.

Now British Transport Police (BTP) has issued still pictures of 10 men they want to question over a disturbance.

Mrs Robinson, a civil servant, was returning home with husband Peter, 61, and son Harry, from celebrating Harry's birthday in Cardiff. She told British Transport Police (BTP) how City fans began abusing her after she asked them to stop shouting sexist chants at a woman on the platform at Lisvane railway station.

"Then their chanting became directly to me and it became sexist and quite obscene until by the time we got Caerphilly, I pulled the red handle and stopped the train," she said.

The train driver came out and Mr Robinson asked him to call the police, but the driver continued with the journey.

Once she arrived at her home station of Ystrad Mynach, Ms Robinson again asked the driver to call the police. When he refused, she decided take "direct action" and climbed down onto the track. She said she was abused further by the men before the police were called. The service was subsequently terminated at the station, leaving the football fans to walk away.

"This is my community, this is my village," she said. "We're not going to be bullied and certainly for women and families, they should be able to travel on the train in peace and quiet and go about their business without being bullied like that."

British Transport Police (BTP) Detective Inspector Mark Cleland said: "BTP will not tolerate disorder or anti-social behaviour of any kind on trains or at railway stations across the network. Tens of thousands of football fans use Britain's railways to get to and from matches every week and the vast majority of them are well behaved and cause BTP no problems whatsoever. However, a minority show complete disregard for other passengers, including those travelling with young children, and members of rail staff - all of whom have the right to travel or carry out their duties without being frightened, intimidated or subjected to loutish behaviour by a minority of so-called fans."

Anyone who recognises any of the 10 men in the CCTV images is urged to contact British Transport Police on on 0800 40 50 40 or the independent charity Crimestoppers anonymously on 0800 555 111.



Edit note: Images now removed due to expiry of copyright permission. CfN


Title: Re: Mother defeats football yobs by staging rail protest (25 September 2010)
Post by: Glovidge on October 08, 2010, 01:03:31
Cripes is that the line-up for Britain's Next Top Model?


Title: Re: Mother defeats football yobs by staging rail protest (25 September 2010)
Post by: JayMac on January 20, 2011, 16:37:32
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-12223956):

Quote
No action on claim of train abuse by Cardiff City fans

British Transport Police (BTP) say no action will taken following claims of verbal abuse by a woman at the hands of football fans on a train. Lisa Robinson said she was so angry at abuse by Cardif City fans she stood on tracks in front of the train at Ystrad Mynach until police arrived.

An investigation was launched into her allegations, made in September. But a BTP spokesperson said crown prosecutors decided that no further action will be taken. The incident was reported to police after a match between Cardiff City and Millwall.

Ms Robinson, a civil servant, said she was on a train service from Penarth to Bargoed with her husband and five-year-old son when trouble erupted. She claimed that drunken Cardiff fans began chanting sexist abuse at a woman on a platform at Lisvane in the city, and then turned the abuse on her.
CCTV footage She said it prompted her to pull the emergency train alarm at Caerphilly, but the train driver decided to proceed. At Ystrad Mynach, she asked the driver to call the police, and then said she decided to take "direct action" by standing on the track until officers finally arrived. The train service was eventually terminated at the station.

BTP said it launched a detailed investigation following the allegations made by Ms Robinson.

"It included officers carrying out extensive enquiries including viewing hours of CCTV footage, and tracing and interviewing more than a dozen witnesses who were on board the train, as well as gathering statements from rail staff and members of the public," said a police spokesperson. "A detailed file was submitted to the Crown Prosecution Service which has, after careful consideration, decided no further action will be taken in relation to the above incident."


Title: Re: Mother defeats football yobs by staging rail protest (25 September 2010)
Post by: inspector_blakey on January 20, 2011, 17:42:02
If the details are indeed as reported and this woman did stand in front of the train, sounds to me like there might be a few open-and-shut cases BTP could make against Ms Robinson though: railway trespass for a start, and almost certainly others covered by the Regulation of Railways ACt 1889 and subsequent amendments... ::)


Title: Re: Mother defeats football yobs by staging rail protest (25 September 2010)
Post by: SDS on January 21, 2011, 00:33:34
These are what I can think of..

  • Railway Trespass. S55 British Transport Commission Act 1949
  • Wilful obstruction of the railway. S.16 Railway Regulation Act 1840
  • Failure to comply with reasonable directions from an officer or agent of the railway. S.16 Railway Regulation Act 1840
  • Failure to cross at an authorised crossing point. S.23 Regulation of the Railways Act 1868
  • Obstructing engines, or carriages, or railways. S.36 Malicious Damage Act 1861
  • Wilful neglect endangering public safety S.34 Offences Against the Person Act 1861




Title: Re: Mother defeats football yobs by staging rail protest (25 September 2010)
Post by: dog box on January 21, 2011, 20:40:15
just come across this one...wonder why Mrs Robinson didnt call the Police herself??



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