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Journey by Journey => London to the Cotswolds => Topic started by: Mookiemoo on September 12, 2010, 16:47:13



Title: Two signs I've oft wondered what they mean.....
Post by: Mookiemoo on September 12, 2010, 16:47:13
On the north bound platform at oxford there is a sign that says "Cotswolds Train please switch on GSM"

The vomiter I was on today was positioned appropriately for me to see an equivalent "Cotswolds Train please turn on CSR"

Can the panel explain?


Title: Re: Two signs I've oft wondered what they mean.....
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 12, 2010, 17:01:44
From our acronyms and abbreviations (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/acronyms.html) page:

CSR ... Cab Secure Radio

I'll add GSM when / if someone provides an answer.  ::)


Title: Re: Two signs I've oft wondered what they mean.....
Post by: Mookiemoo on September 12, 2010, 17:08:36
GSM was the old mobile standard before 3G but no idea if its connected


Title: Re: Two signs I've oft wondered what they mean.....
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 12, 2010, 17:10:14
Agreed - hence my comment!  ;D


Title: Re: Two signs I've oft wondered what they mean.....
Post by: Mookiemoo on September 12, 2010, 17:17:19
Turning on your GSM mobile phone I don't think would work for the cotswolds for two reasons:

1. with modern networks I'm not sure GSM actually works anymore

2. The costwolds has so little mobile signal between oxford and worcester and then worcester and hereford that it a mobile is often as much use as a brick


Title: Re: Two signs I've oft wondered what they mean.....
Post by: bigdaz on September 12, 2010, 17:20:22
I think this is the greatest feat of modern engineering personally - be it HST or turbo.... the following facts are incredible:

1) that the train can read the sign

2) that is knows which buttons to press

Clearly designed by a man, hey, Mookimoo  ;)  :D  ;D


Title: Re: Two signs I've oft wondered what they mean.....
Post by: JayMac on September 12, 2010, 17:36:05
These two Wikipedia entries may go some way to explaining:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM-R

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cab_Secure_Radio

Maybe GSM-R is operational on the Cotswolds Line already.

GSM is still used by most mobile devices for voice calls, with UMTS (3G) for video calls and data and HSDPA (sometimes referred to as 3G+, 3G Turbo or 3.5G) for higher data transfer speeds.


Title: Re: Two signs I've oft wondered what they mean.....
Post by: Mookiemoo on September 12, 2010, 17:38:42
ok - well these are signs on posts at oxford station

Was just the positioning of carriage A on the vomiter that made me notice the CSR one



Title: Re: Two signs I've oft wondered what they mean.....
Post by: coachflyer on September 12, 2010, 22:55:53
The GSM on these signs is a simple mobile phone that has been fitted to the turbos to allow them to operate on lines that are not covered by the cab secure radio (CSR). This allows the Network Rail control centre to sent simple STOP messages to the driver or the driver to contact the controller in emergency only. 
When this system is in operation a Guard must be provided when in passenger operation.

When in the CSR area the radio is liked to the DSD (dead mans handle) so that if something happens to the driver then the signal box in charge of the area that the train is in is automatically informed and allows the signaller to use the trains pa system to talk directly to the passengers.

The signs on the platforms are there to remind the driver to change the system over when they come to a stand.

Found at both Oxford for the Cotswolds and at Didcot when the turbos went to Bristol.

GSM-R is the new standard that is being rolled out across the uk. It is based on cell phones but is a secure network that is for railway use only. New masts are slowly being put up next to all running lines to allow continuous coverage. I think it is due to come into use in our area in 2012.



Title: Re: Two signs I've oft wondered what they mean.....
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 12, 2010, 23:19:49
Thanks very much for that detailed information, coachflyer!  :)


Title: Re: Two signs I've oft wondered what they mean.....
Post by: gwr2006 on September 13, 2010, 18:22:48
The signs were installed at Oxford and Didcot Parkway stations in November 2001 in connection with trials of GSM-R on the North Cotswolds, and indicate the point where Class 165/166 trains changeover CSR and GSM-R.  Only Turbos had GSM-R handsets fitted on the control panel to the left of the driver.

GSM-R is a secure digital network that is being rolled out across the UK by 2012. Lots of new transmitters are appearing alongside the railway (there is one at Radley, south of Oxford, for example).

At Oxford, signs on platform 2 advise drivers of northbound Cotswold Line services to switch on GSM, and on platform 1 CSR in the case of southbound services. Signs were installed at the west end of platforms 3 and 4 at Didcot Parkway where Turbo services to Bristol changed direction.


Title: Re: Two signs I've oft wondered what they mean.....
Post by: inspector_blakey on September 13, 2010, 18:57:40
Found at both Oxford for the Cotswolds and at Didcot when the turbos went to Bristol.

So does that mean that, although there was always a guard on board the Bristol - Oxford turbos, formally they were operated "driver only" between Oxford and Didcot, and "driver guard" for the rest of the route...?


Title: Re: Two signs I've oft wondered what they mean.....
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 13, 2010, 19:01:48
The signs were installed at Oxford and Didcot Parkway stations in November 2001 in connection with trials of GSM-R on the North Cotswolds, and indicate the point where Class 165/166 trains changeover CSR and GSM-R.  Only Turbos had GSM-R handsets fitted on the control panel to the left of the driver.

Not strictly correct, as originally the 'trial' (actually pretty much an enforced safety demand if I remember correctly following recommendations from a collision in Cowden, Kent in 1994 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowden_rail_crash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowden_rail_crash)) involved drivers receiving a pager pack (basically a pager and a mobile phone) when they were driving the Cotswold Line or services to Bristol (from Didcot onwards) and Stratford-Upon-Avon (from Banbury onwards).  This continued for several months before the trains were equipped with handsets and signs were installed at Didcot, Oxford and Banbury as a reminder to the driver to change system.  They are basically public mobile phones, so incoming calls/texts from outside sources are not unheard of!  The handset is actually to the right of the driver, located where a troublesome former emergency stop plunger was located.

Quote from: inspector_blakey
So does that mean that, although there was always a guard on board the Bristol - Oxford turbos, formally they were operated "driver only" between Oxford and Didcot, and "driver guard" for the rest of the route...?

The were not usually operated as Driver Only services, but in the event of no 'guard' being available, it was permitted to run them DOO as far as Didcot if necessary.

Edited to reattribute the quote to me and not coachflyer ;)


Title: Re: Two signs I've oft wondered what they mean.....
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on September 13, 2010, 19:52:41
All this is very entertaining but clearly not the real reason.

The "Switch On GSM" sign at Oxford relates to the Go Slow Motor fitted to all trains operating Cotswold services. When trains promising 'High Speed' or even 'Turbo' operation were first introduced to the line, users were concerned that the essential nature of the Cotswold service could be compromised. As a result, a Go Slow Motor was fitted to ensure slower running. If, despite this, a train is making good progress, the GSM's emergency mode will kick in at certain predefined points (e.g. Evesham and Ascott) to delay the train by an arbitrary amount.

GSM is not fitted to all stock that can operate on the Cotswold line. For example, the Class 180 'Andante' trains are capable of delaying themselves by such expedients as catching fire, doors jamming open/shut, etc. etc. Consequently no assistance is required from the GSM.

I hope that's cleared it up.


Title: Re: Two signs I've oft wondered what they mean.....
Post by: Electric train on September 13, 2010, 20:54:29
All this is very entertaining but clearly not the real reason.

The "Switch On GSM" sign at Oxford relates to the Go Slow Motor fitted to all trains operating Cotswold services. When trains promising 'High Speed' or even 'Turbo' operation were first introduced to the line, users were concerned that the essential nature of the Cotswold service could be compromised. As a result, a Go Slow Motor was fitted to ensure slower running. If, despite this, a train is making good progress, the GSM's emergency mode will kick in at certain predefined points (e.g. Evesham and Ascott) to delay the train by an arbitrary amount.

GSM is not fitted to all stock that can operate on the Cotswold line. For example, the Class 180 'Andante' trains are capable of delaying themselves by such expedients as catching fire, doors jamming open/shut, etc. etc. Consequently no assistance is required from the GSM.

I hope that's cleared it up.
;D :D ::) ::) ;D :D


Title: Re: Two signs I've oft wondered what they mean.....
Post by: MrC on September 13, 2010, 22:16:35
Lots of new transmitters are appearing alongside the railway

As a complete aside a new GSM-R mast was recently installed to the north of Battledown flyover (by Worting Jcn west of Basingstoke). I just happened to glance at it today and noticed that some enterprising soul has tagged one of the antenna boxes at the top of the mast with black paint. Whether the antenna was tagged on the ground and then installed, or the tagger climbed the mast I've no idea but it's a hell of a long way off the ground!


Title: Re: Two signs I've oft wondered what they mean.....
Post by: JayMac on September 13, 2010, 23:19:41
All this is very entertaining but clearly not the real reason.

The "Switch On GSM" sign at Oxford relates to the Go Slow Motor fitted to all trains operating Cotswold services. When trains promising 'High Speed' or even 'Turbo' operation were first introduced to the line, users were concerned that the essential nature of the Cotswold service could be compromised. As a result, a Go Slow Motor was fitted to ensure slower running. If, despite this, a train is making good progress, the GSM's emergency mode will kick in at certain predefined points (e.g. Evesham and Ascott) to delay the train by an arbitrary amount.

GSM is not fitted to all stock that can operate on the Cotswold line. For example, the Class 180 'Andante' trains are capable of delaying themselves by such expedients as catching fire, doors jamming open/shut, etc. etc. Consequently no assistance is required from the GSM.

I hope that's cleared it up.

I think that deserves some sort of prize for the funniest post in recent months..... top work Richard. I laughed so hard I very nearly followed through!!!!!!

 ;D ;D ;D



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