Great Western Coffee Shop

I would have expected them to be given an excess fare (plus ^10), assuming a Megatrain ticket is classified as an advance ticket.

SWT's RPIs seem to be out in force at the unbarriered stations at the moment.  Cosham was targeted last week, with several PCSOs also present.

Although I did spot one major flaw ... they didn't block the bridge, so you could simply walk up the steps from the platform side then back down again on the road side ::)

That option is only available if you go to the ticket office before you travel. This is a risk you do run if you stop short on an advance ticket.  It is only for the journey stated otherwise you will be treated as having no ticket so penalty fare rules can apply.

Really?  The NRCoC says
Might be a good idea if a moderator could split the last few posts from this thread as it has gone wildly off topic!

Correct. In this case the lowest price fare is the penalty fare as charged.

That is overidden by NR Cof C 12(b).  The 'certain other types of tickets' provision.

Paul

Picked up by the Railway Eye (http://railwayeye.blogspot.com/2010/09/swt-stuff-passenger-bank-lolly.html).

The upshot goes something like this: couple book Advance purchase tickets to Southampton for GBP 6.00 each. Couple evidently do not read terms and conditions (or choose not to understand them). Couple alight two stops early at Eastleigh. Couple are, correctly according to a strict interpretation of the rules, penalty fared to the tune of GBP 57.00, twice the standard single fare of GBP 28.50, each. Couple go crying to the press. Although it would seem that no-one except that august organ Yahoo! news (I know, who...?) is interested.

Call me harsh but I reckon the Fact Compiler has called this one wrong - my opinions tend to align with the subsequent comments on the blog post. The terms and conditions for advance purchase tickets are freely available and very, very simple to understand. They are valid for the exact journey printed on the ticket, nothing else. That raelly is all you need to know, and it really is not difficult. Although it may have been rather severe for SWT to levy the full penalty fare in the circumstances, according to the penalty fares rules and conditions of carriage they were absolutely within their rights to do so.

I get really irritated when people who can't or won't bother to find out what they're actually buying make a mistake and then go running to the media when they suffer the consequences...

See  I had a dilemma today - mainly due to SWT

I was on the 1400 BRI to RDG

IF it gets in on time you can make the 1512 SWT departure to bracknell - which I did.

but if you don't, you get the FGW gatwick to crowthorne

Discussed with TM at swindon and we were on time but no point in buying ticket as had no idea where I wanted to get a ticket to.  Got on train, another none revenue trained SWT guard

Was debating en route whether to get of at wokingham with no barriers but no, I went on to bracknell where I was expecting a stand up row to avoid a penalty ticket.  barrier open.  Walked up to ticket office - asked for a single from RDG to bracknell and got told it was a penalty fare - no countenance for the fact I could have got of earlier etc etc if I were evading.  Pointed out the taxi rank is over there and since I was land side of barriers, she could call the BTP but I'd be long gone before they get there

Gave her the option of sell me the ticket or ....

she refused

I walked - first time ever

SWT lost 3.10 but I'll be damned if I was paying ^20 under those circs

Good on you on that one FA, no way should someone who is honest enough to go up to the ticket office after they have travelled and could easily have walked off be PF'd!

As suggested by a member, I've split some earlier posts off from another topic - and added them here, for clarity and continuity.

CfN.  :)

Well done, wish I'd been there! ;D Shame you couldn't have taken a photo* of the look on her face when you walked! (on your iPhone)
_{*Disclaimer, this is a joke.}

The terms and conditions for Advance Purchase may indeed be very clear but take a look at the T&Cs that you accept when purchasing a Megatrain ticket:

http://uk.megabus.com/terms.aspx

Just one line that says 'Bookings are only valid on the journey(s) and places stated.' (Which ain't exactly great English!) That line comes three-quarters of the way through the T&Cs (some 2000 words!), after a disclaimer, website use, cookies, legal identity, copyright and trademark, applicable law and a privacy policy.

Absolutely no mention of the dire consequences of travelling short. The only mention of Penalty Fares is in relation to travel without a valid NUS Extra card when a ticket has been purchased with the NUS Extra discount. Reference is made to rail travel being subject to National Rail Conditions of Carriage but the link offered takes you to the NRE 'Train Times & Tickets' page.

So, in my opinion, the couple were harshly treated and the Terms & Conditions which they accepted are not explicit enough with regard to the potential for Penalty Fares. Full Anytime Single should've been the 'fine' IMHO.

IMHO not even that

The diff between what they paid and the cheapest walk on they could have got

I know ita not in the manual butbits common sense

That's patently ridiculous. If the worst you would ever pay was as you suggest, 'the cheapest walk on they could of got',  no-one would ever need to bother buying a ticket at all....

Paul

 But then I work on the theory you should be able to buy tickets on board etc - i.e. presumption of innocence

Would not have seemed sensible for the couple to have ridden to to Souhampton Central and bought 2 x CDS back to Eastleigh.  May have taken 30 mins, but the Megatrain fare + 2 x CDS would have been cheaper than the walk on fare anyway!

Perhaps I'm stating the obvious??

Yes, you'd have thought so! Although it would appear that it never occurred to them that they couldn't alight short, so I assume that they wouldn't have considered that in the first place. But if I wanted to get to Eastleigh and there were tickets to Southampton for GBP 6.00 (unlikely but you never know!), that's what I'd do...

I just "simulated" a booking by getting through to the payment page and cancelling.  The conditions are by no means clear.  You are simply asked to tick a box to say you've read those Terms & Conditions.  The ticket's restrictions are not made explicitly clear as they would be with any other operator.

In addition, is it technically an advance fare as the ticket doesn't show up in the NFM.

The email confirmation apparently includes this:



Whether or not it is a true a Advance Fare is a bit of a red herring. AIUI exactly the same procedure would happen, ie a PF would be charged, if someone attempted to alight short on an Advance on an SWT service, such as Waterloo - Brockenhurst at Southampton...

Paul

Of course you do.

I expect sooner or later that approach should guarantee you a PF from SWT, because some of your excuses for boarding their trains without a ticket at Reading, eg as just quoted above, just wouldn't work if an RPI got involved.

Paul

Regardless of whether the rules are clear (and the PF therefore justified), the rules are stupid.

If you ordered off the "3 courses for a tenner" menu in a Restaurant and only ate two courses, you would think it idiotic if you were charged more than a tenner for consuming less.  Why do we accept similarly idiotic rules for the railway.  It brings the whole fare system into disrupute.



 

It wouldn't happen - Some people get and expect rules to be broken / ignored or
bent to suit.



Edit note: Quote marks amended, for clarity. CfN.  :)

It is slightly different though, promotions such as mega train are there to fill empty seats, for^6 people could try any intermediete journey and then the railway loses revenue.

Now if two Winchester to Eastleigh singles had been purchased in advanced and the couple got off two stops early at Eastleigh but with valid tickets WHO would have picked that up?

No-one, I would guess! I'm not sure it's technically legitimate (it strikes me as analogous to "dumb-belling" in fact, so is probably not permitted), but I can't see any way it could be detected.

I must admit I once stopped short on an a 1st ADV ticket...

Was a little while ago when I was travelling from BHM - BRI, XC service where the term overcrowded was a major understatement, It was either get of the train at Bristol Parkway, or let a serious panic attack take it's course... I decided to alight and take the 73 to Broadmead and change onto the 70 to BRI... (Was a sunday).

Ticket barrier wouldn't let me out, so I showed my ticket to the gateline assistant who merely pointed out I was at Parkway and not Temple Meads... I acknowledged this but he just let me through ;D

I know technically I was breaking the rules, I'm sorry...