Great Western Coffee Shop

I'm just posting this in advance.. I know Muse are playing Wembley Stadium on Saturday night (as I'm going).. I know last time I saw Muse play there and there was also a concert in Hyde Park on the same night, the trains out of Paddington to Maidenhead were so full I couldn't get on the first one.. And some people didn't get on the second one either.. I'm sure I posted that here at the time.. And if I wasn't so tired/lazy.. I'd look for it... ;D

Well it appears there is a Hyde Park Concert this Saturday night too.. So I'm sure there will be no extra trains.. I will have 3 16 year olds with me... Last time the train home (once I got on one) made me feel very ill.. I'm kind of dreading it..

I'm hoping FGW have done some sort of better planning this time? But don't hold out much hope...

Well, they may have a plan but whether they will actually share it with anyone is another matter entirely, like the non-existent publicity for some fairly sensible alterations made for the Big Chill festival in Herefordshire last month (or when Oxford United played at Wembley in May). You would like to think they would have 3+3 Turbo formations or the odd extra HST out there late on Saturday but you'll probably only find out on the night. Meanwhile Chiltern are busy letting anyone who wants to know that they're running a special timetable for the Muse concerts at Wembley...

Well last time I checked Chiltern (because it's not impossible for me to get home somehow from High Wycombe via Wembley station (the wembley Stadium station i think)).. the timetable out of London was rubbish for Saturday night.. Has it changed in the last day or so?

Ok... From what I can see (on the chiltern railways site), they are running extra trains to the concert.. Does anyone know if they are running extra trains to get people home afterwards?

To be honest we all have all day to get there.. Leaving at 11pm.. on a Saturday night service.. I think it's more important we know if we'll get home or not. I might be missing something tho.. ;D

OK I've finally found some trains.. They weren't on NR planner the other day.. Will check tomorrow (too tired now) to see if they are on there now..

but 23.07 to 23.44 (High Wycombe)
23.22 to 00.01 (High Wycombe)
23.32 to 00.07 (HW)

which are probably the trains I;d get to avoid the nasty full ones out of Paddington.. As long as they won't be nasty full ones....

One of the issues of doing extra trains for events such as Muse (which I am going to on the Friday) is that FGW can't guarantee they will actually get used.

Chiltern know that whenever an event is on they will get used no matter what for the obvious reason that they serve Wembley Stadium.

I'm sure the concert will be 'bliss' and leave you 'feeling good'. Weather is overcast on Saturday so 'sunburn' shouldn't be an issue. Trains maybe busy but I doubt there'll be 'hysteria'.

I thank you.  ;D

In the time-honoured manner: "Your coat, sir?"  ::)

If you can work "plug-in baby" into that paragraph I will be exceedingly impressed...  :-X

Saw them play in Philadelphia in March and (to use the local vernacular) they were awesome -  you'll have a great time.

But if Jo observed a very large passenger flow the last time this conjunction of events occurred, surely someone within FGW might also have done so, or noted a spike in ticket sales on the day in question and explored the likely reasons for it so you can be ready to maximise revenue when similar circumstances occur in future. Let's face it, there are always likely to be large flows of passengers throughout London when there are large-capacity events - Wembley concert capacity is 75,000 and Hyde Park is 45,000 or so, many of whom will likely be travelling from areas served by FGW. Trains out of Paddington on a Saturday evening aren't exactly quiet (in every sense) the rest of the time, are they?

A pdf of the full Chiltern timetable for Saturday, including extra trains, extra stops by other services at Wembley and Marylebone-Wembley shuttles before and after the concert is online at the changes to train times page at their website.

I just doubt there would be a business case to plan in advance, I'd guess it's monitored and they may do what has been done in the past and get an additional if required.

No doubt if there is that much concern about it fire of an email to customer services to forward it on =]

I think I might have e-mailed FGW after the last time so I am SURE they know exactly how busy it's going to be Saturday evening.. I'm just hoping they will do something about it..

Unfortunately, due to the engineering works associated with the Remodelling of Reading, all lines are closed overnight Sat thru Sun almost every weekend.  As a result, NR will not release any more paths for extra trains along the line.  I dare say there could be a possible case to run extras to Maidenhead, but certainly nothing beyond.  The last train from Reading on the Saturday night of the Rock Festival was 0003 when the music stopped at midnight.  FGW tried all avenues to get extra trains, but were denied because of the engineering works scheduled (though extra trains were able to run on Sunday night which was also very busy).

If FGW don't put on the trains, there will be an "uprising".

Even if you can't run extras, you can at the very least add extra coaches on the trains that are allowed to run out to Reading (Chiltern add coaches to their services as well as running Wembley extras) - it's not as if there aren't spare FGW Turbos at weekends - or even use an HST instead to provide the added capacity which Jo is suggesting is needed.

It may well be the case that FGW does plan to do something along these lines this weekend, but why is it that they never seem to want to tell people about these arrangements when they do make them, which might encourage more people to use their trains and bring in even more money?

FGW and the word plan.... don^t go together from what I^ve seen. Then nor does FGW and clean, maintained, polite, and helpful go together from what I^ve seen. As you can tell had another poor service from them today.

I've just discovered that on Saturday 18th September some 80,000 people are expected to attend a Prayer Vigil in Hyde Park at which Pope Benedict XVI will be present as part of his UK visit. It says here:

http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/papal-visit/itinerary/london.aspx


So is FGW prepared?  ???

You might have "just discovered" this, but it isn't a big secret ;) Given the enormous publicity surrounding the papal visit to the UK, I suspect FGW are aware of it, at the very least.

Yep - GroupSave is barred :P

Good to see FGW screwing as much money/ discouraging those pesky passengers. A lot easier than running extra/longer trains and actually running booked HSTs!

If it makes you any happier it's only for those travelling for "All stations Reading to London Paddington inclusive. Also includes One Day Travelcards" from: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/groupsave_calendar.html

That makes it better, but the whole "Groupsave" calendar seems to me to be unfair, as well as making the discount complicated. Every time I wish to use Groupsave, I have to check the calendar - not good.

It appears that not only do you have to check the calendar, but you also need to decide whether you are a 'Pilgrim'.

As I'm Agnostic can I still get a GroupSave?  ;D

You could organize some kind of roster system where by your two or three travelling companions take it in turns to do the checking. But unfair of them to expect you to organize everything ;)


I reckon I have a stronger case as an atheist (although not, I hope, one of the bumptious and rather noisy Richard Dawkins stable) ;D

Getting back to something like the serious topic though, 80,000 people doesn't seem like it will necessarily have a vast impact on FGW's operation. They'll have come from all over the country, with many from or staying in the big smoke itself.

80,000 is less than a full Wembley (cap. 90,000) and more akin to a Millennium stadium (cap. 74,500) which even when two London teams were playing in Cardiff didn't make things impossible. Uncomfortably busy perhaps (with my usual impeccable timing I always seemed to have plans to travel to Bristol or Wales on those weekends) but that was with a significant percentage of people heading to the game using FGW which took them right from home to their destination. The pope's fans will be coming from a hugely more diffuse catchment area.

Of course I stand to be corrected should chaos reign on the day. But something tells me it probably won't.

Okay well Muse were amazing - train was packed. (00:34 from Paddington - Reading) I got off at Twyford, and it was still fairly busy.

Ideally the train could do with an extra couple of carriages (was only a 3 car). But if it doesn't then people on the train need to be more considerate and actually do the decent thing and move further into the train, which they didn't seem to like doing on mine as they had picked the spot they liked and needed to be asked more than once to shift!

Thanks for that Ollie.. It makes me cross FGW didn't put extra carriages on the train though..  >:(

I think there are slightly more trains on a Saturday night (or different timed trains at least) but I'm still dreading the journey home. Last time it was so overcrowded it made me feel ill :-( (and I'm a seasoned commuter so I can deal with most things)..

Oh well at least Muse will be brilliant  ;D

Well I sent off an e-mail to the senior controller letting them know of the experiences of last night - although I am aware it was reported anyway - as it wasn't just my train that went out overcrowded.

Looks like tonight services are being strengthened. But I don't have proper confirmation in the sense that the carriages are being used in passenger service. All based on the observations of an internal system which shows what a trains formation is due to be.

From what I can gather:

23:20 - Reading local is 5 car instead of 2
23:42 - Reading local is 5 car instead of 3
00:05 - Reading local is 5 car instead of 3
00:30 - Reading local is 6 car instead of 3
01:00 - LAST Reading local is 6 as booked.

Addition: Would just like to stress that this is NOT CONFIRMED. (confirmed in the sense of any fanfare from FGW..maybe FGW alterations section only shows short formed trains)

Addition 2: Confirmed by a colleague to be accurate :)

As an update - I have asked Jo to check when she gets to Paddington :P

Again: thanks, Ollie!  ;)

No problem - I have edited post to add a small disclaimer :)

Confirmed by a colleague.

Addition: Also confirmed by Jo.

There's always the option of the back cab, on a turbo, if its busy.  Although prob not allowed if not possession of some paper/card thingy.

Would require cab pass I assume. I guess if in uniform or something you could say it's for your own safety.

Thanks Ollie for the up to date information as I was travelling home.. As you know it did turn out to be 6 carriages (I got the 00.30) so everyone I could see had seats...

It's a pity FGW didn't work it out for themselves after last time but had to be told after last nights were overcrowded..

All in all not a bad journey home for me.. Even my fellow passengers were fairly well behaved considering how late it was  ;D

Surely we have an "events" department that should be aware of things like this, and with all due respect to Ollie - and much kudos for pushing the point for strengthening on Saturday, but we really shouldn't have to be so reactive all the time  :-\

I don't know if we have a department, but there is certainly someone who gets together a list of noteworthy events.

The only issue with a music event, there is no way from what I can gather how you can really tell what sort of loadings you will get.

Unless when you buy your tickets you get asked how you plan to get there and where from..which obviously wouldn't happen.

Although, as was already said on here, a similar thing happened a couple of years ago (Muse at Wembley Stadium plus many thousands at a Hyde Park gig).. Do FGW seriously think that all of a sudden everypne from East London is going to this sort of thing and no one else...

It's quite obvious to me that there will be fairly equal (but large) loadings from all London major stations. Or am I wrong there?

Sorry but did I actually say that everyone from East London would be going?

I just said it's not possible to always make assumptions that there will be heavy loadings on the local stopping services. Yes last time was busy again I know as I went then too. I actually feel this year was busier. From my own experience. Yours is obviously different as you got the extended train and I didn't.

I wonder out of all the other TOC's out of London excluding Chiltern did any others run additional or strengthened services?

http://board.muse.mu/showthread.php?t=77887 - transport complaints - pretty much just TfL..
http://board.muse.mu/showthread.php?t=77620 - this one too regarding transport

Hi Ollie.. No.. I just picked East London as a random place that was as far away from FGW land as possible but still in London as a potential reason (in FGWs eyes) why they didn't need to worry about last night or Friday night.. To try and prove the point that any gig as big as this (or two gigs as there were last night) should provide pretty much similar loadings from all mainline stations in London (and sorry if I didn't manage to word it as such  ;D)

I'm very grateful for the information you gave me last night and also that, after you had a bad journey home Friday night, you complained/mentioned it the the powers that be,  to help me have a good journey home last night..

Thank you  ;D

Well I'm glad I helped :P

I'm not starting a new text alert service though, so don't get ideas ;) :D

But I am glad your journey was good :)

I think that's a very good idea  ;D

Fine - I will have to start charging :P

You could end up VERY rich?  ;D

Maybe if I charge ^50 a text :P

Glad to see that something was done - eventually - but should this really be down to Ollie and any other FGW staff who were out and about on Friday night raising the issue in this way? Or on-the-day reactions like an extra HST being wheeled out in May to get Oxford United fans home after their Wembley play-off due to overcrowding on trains into London earlier in the day. And that was a case where it was a predictable, concentrated flow on a single route, not the obviously harder to predict vagaries of big concert audiences - although as Jo pointed out up the thread, she had written to FGW after the last such combination of events pointing out the overcrowding, so they can't say they weren't warned.

Has anyone told them the Pope's in London this Saturday?

Erm, yes, it's in this thread (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=7548.msg75412#msg75412). But I'll wager that one falls into the category of "hard to predict flows", and in all honesty my money's on it not making a vast amount of difference. I'm always ready to be proved wrong though.

Well I was told this morning that it doesn't appear to have been my e-mail that sparked it, don't really know when the plan was to strengthen - shame that FGW didn't publish the additional carriages so people would have peace of mind =)

Maybe they got lots of complaints (although it seems a bit soon for them to have read them).. Maybe people were left behind at Paddington so complained in person...

I doubt we will ever know :P

But it seems to be policy not to do so - such as this case, the Big Chill, Oxford United at Wembley to name but three and while someone seems to have taken in hand getting engineering-related changes to services on the website, there hardly ever seem to be any other sorts of alterations listed on the page, with the odd exception like Cheltenham National Hunt Festival, presumably due to the slimming-down of the Cardiff service to free HSTs for the extras to Gloucestershire. Would it have been so hard to put something about those strengthened Turbo services on there too?

The Pope's coming to London?!?

From the Edinburgh Evening News (http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/Top-policeman-Pope-should-travel.6500514.jp):


 ::)

Like what, Richard Dawkins waving a placard?! It's not as if a motorcade can go veering up the embankment on the M8 to escape any "trouble" either, is it...?


And you can bet that's only the very tip of the iceberg. No doubt the pope will go back to the Vatican under the impression that all of the UK smells of fresh paint. Please excuse me. I'm off to find a quiet corner and weep for a long time.

I expect Cardinal Keith has been on at the council for months about the potholes on the road outside his house. Getting His Holiness to visit was just an elaborate ruse to get the council to finally fill 'em in.

 :D

FGW do have staff looking at events, though I know some events sometimes drop under the radar.  I am not sure how they get their information.  Obviously, loadings are always difficult to quantify, though surely previous experience should be logged and kept.

With regard to the Pope's visit, not only the travelling numbers are vague, but also the expected finishing time is not exactly known.  As a result, FGW are stabling a spare set and crew at Paddington to be used as required.