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All across the Great Western territory => Buses and other ways to travel => Topic started by: Chris from Nailsea on September 04, 2010, 12:04:14



Title: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 04, 2010, 12:04:14
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11187237):

Quote
A bendy bus has caught fire outside one of London's busiest railway stations.

Fire crews were called to deal with thick black smoke which was seen billowing from the vehicle on Terminus Place, opposite Victoria station, at about 0830 BST on Saturday.

All of those on board the bus escaped without injury.

Much of Terminus Place has been closed while investigations take place, although buses are stopping nearby. Victoria Tube station has now reopened.

The sub-surface Circle and District Lines had been prevented from stopping at the station while the fire was in progress.

Bendy buses, which were introduced in London in 2001, were temporarily taken out of service in 2005 when three of them caught fire.

They were only allowed back on the roads once special fire-suppression equipment had been fitted.

There was also a fire on another vehicle three years ago, with flames coming from its heating system.


Title: Re: London bendy bus catches fire outside Victoria station - 4 September 2010
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 06, 2010, 20:02:16
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11192887):

Quote
Bendy bus fire at Victoria station 'could be arson'

Initial inspections on a bendy bus which caught fire outside a railway station suggest arson may have been to blame rather than a mechanical fault, Transport for London (TfL) has said.

Thick black smoke was seen billowing from the number 73 in Terminus Place beside Victoria station in central London on Saturday morning.

Only the driver was on board and escaped without injury.

The emergency services and TfL have launched investigations.

The Metropolitan Police and London Fire Brigade said their inquiries were continuing.

The bus stops outside Victoria are now in operation again, having been closed while the fire was extinguished.


Title: Bus fires
Post by: JayMac on September 16, 2011, 16:05:43
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-14952143):

Quote
Extensive damage was caused to a bus which was set on fire while it was travelling through Bristol city centre.

Police said several fires were lit on the number 73 bus, which travels from the north of the city, in the early hours of Friday.

Police now want to trace a man who got on the bus at Filton Avenue before getting off at Horsefair.

He is described as mid to late teens, slim build and was wearing an black Adidas top.

Officers have released CCTV images of the man in a bid to trace him.

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/55416000/jpg/_55416671_55410519.jpg)

Nobody was injured in the incident


Title: Three buses destroyed in Paignton bus station 'arson attack' (BBC News 30/07/12)
Post by: JayMac on July 30, 2012, 12:09:36
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-19044213):

Quote
Three buses have been destroyed in a suspected arson attack at a bus station in south Devon.

Fire crews were called to the station in Paignton at about 04:25 BST after reports of a loud explosion.

Two double-decker buses and one single-decker were destroyed at the site in Dartmouth Road, Devon and Cornwall Police said.

Nearby roads were closed, and bus operator Stagecoach was working to get replacement vehicles, officers added.

The incident caused damage estimated at about ^120,000 and was being treated as suspected arson, police said.

Police and fire officers have begun a joint investigation into the cause.

The closed roads have since reopened, police said.

Stagecoach said the incident was unlikely to impact on bus services around Torbay.


Title: Re: Three buses destroyed in Paignton bus station 'arson attack' (BBC News 30/07/12)
Post by: bobm on July 30, 2012, 12:29:39
Pictures at This is South Devon

http://www.thisissouthdevon.co.uk/buses-destroyed-120-000-arson-attack-Paignton/story-16616136-detail/story.html (http://www.thisissouthdevon.co.uk/buses-destroyed-120-000-arson-attack-Paignton/story-16616136-detail/story.html)


Title: Re: Three buses destroyed in Paignton bus station 'arson attack' (BBC News 30/07/12)
Post by: bobm on October 20, 2012, 14:01:20
Charges against a man accused of arson dropped - http://www.thisissouthdevon.co.uk/pound-31-000-Paignton-bus-arson-charges-dropped/story-17100371-detail/story.html (http://www.thisissouthdevon.co.uk/pound-31-000-Paignton-bus-arson-charges-dropped/story-17100371-detail/story.html)

Quote
ARSON charges against a man accused of setting fire to three buses in Paignton have been dropped.

Stephen Lee Bowstead, 23, had denied causing ^31,000 of damage to the Stagecoach vehicles on July 30.

More than 20 members of the public called the fire brigade when they saw the blaze lighting up the night sky as two double deckers and a single decker went up in flames.

Bowstead, of no fixed abode, was due to be committed to Exeter Crown Court to face the charges but when he appeared before magistrates in Torquay the case was dismissed.

However, he was convicted of setting fire to beach huts in Paignton on June 26 causing ^350 of damage.

He pleaded guilty to two counts of arson intending to cause damage and being reckless as to whether it was destroyed.

He was sent to jail for 60 days.

A spokesman for the Crown Prosecution Service said: "The defendant pleaded guilty to two counts of arson which involved setting fire to beach huts.

"However, on reviewing the case against the defendant relating to allegedly setting fire to buses, the CPS had to discontinue the prosecution due to insufficient evidence.

A Stagecoach spokesman said: "The decision on whether or not to proceed with a case is a matter for the police and the CPS."


Title: Re: Three buses destroyed in Paignton bus station 'arson attack' (BBC News 30/07/12)
Post by: Temple Meads on October 20, 2012, 22:49:59
Damn, I was hoping that someone would pay for that attack, one of the buses destroyed in the fire was the only bus I've ever really had a proper affinity with  :P


Title: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 08, 2013, 19:06:30
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-20940985):

Quote
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/65153000/jpg/_65153165_busfire.jpg)
Nine people fled the bus unhurt after it caught fire at Medbourne roundabout

A bus with nine people on board burst into flames at a Milton Keynes roundabout.

The driver and eight passengers were on board as smoke and flames poured from the engine. They were taken to safety as fire crews tackled the fire at the back of the single decker bus at Medbourne roundabout, Grange Farm.

Buckinghamshire Fire and Rescue Service said the interior of the bus was cut open to ensure the fire had not spread.

A spokesperson for the bus operator Arriva said: "At 13:26 on Monday, 7 January one of our buses was travelling along Fulmer Street when the driver was made aware by a passenger that they had seen smoke from the rear of the vehicle.

"The driver pulled over off the roundabout at a safe place and evacuated all passengers from the bus. He immediately called the fire brigade and also tried to attempt to use the fire extinguisher himself to put out the fire and keep it under control.

"The fire brigade attended the scene and were able to extinguish the fire. The fire was contained in and around the engine compartment.

"A spare bus was taken to the stop so passengers were able to continue with their journey. Nobody was injured as a result of the fire."


Title: Re: Milton Keynes bus catches fire at roundabout
Post by: Brucey on January 08, 2013, 20:13:05
Not to worry, they've got plenty of spare roundabouts in MK.


Title: Re: Milton Keynes bus catches fire at roundabout
Post by: anthony215 on January 08, 2013, 20:23:26
This is the 3rd case in last few months that an optare solo has gone up in flames


Title: Re: Milton Keynes bus catches fire at roundabout
Post by: SandTEngineer on January 08, 2013, 20:41:08
.........mmm time then to withdraw all bus services, have a lengthly public enquiry, spend millions on lawyers.....and make the public walk in the meantime :P


Title: Fires destroy buses at Western Greyhound fleet depots in Cornwall
Post by: JayMac on May 13, 2013, 09:17:37
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-22506806):

Quote
A fire at a bus depot in Cornwall has destroyed at least 37 buses - a third of bus firm Western Greyhound's fleet.

The fire in Summercourt, near Newquay, broke out at about 01:00 BST.

The blaze is expected to cause "significant disruption" to bus services in mid-Cornwall, including some school buses.

Its cause, which is not yet known, is being jointly investigated by Devon and Cornwall Police and Cornwall Fire and Rescue Service.

Police said the A3058 Newquay to St Austell Road would remain closed for most of the day.

Mark Howarth, Western Greyhound's managing director, told BBC Radio Cornwall: "A lot of hard work has gone into Western Greyhound and it's awful to see it going up in smoke.

"I could just see flames leaping in the air and when I arrived all the buses at the bottom of the yard were completely ablaze.

"The services will be significantly disrupted but we will run as much of them as we can."

Western Greyhound has been operating buses in Cornwall and Devon since 1998.

It describes itself as a "locally-based, family-run business."

Another news item from the West Briton including photos and videos:
http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Massive-Western-Greyhound-depot-Summercourt-near/story-18970433-detail/story.html#axzz2T9tSs1al


Title: Re: Fires destroy buses at Western Greyhound fleet depots in Cornwall
Post by: LiskeardRich on May 13, 2013, 09:24:11
Sad to hear the devastation. Sadly nearly every other fire in such circumstances turn out to be Arson.

I think Western Greyhound were fairly lucky they store many of their buses out at outstations all round Cornwall which probably has saved them from losing more vehicles.


Title: Re: Fires destroy buses at Western Greyhound fleet depots in Cornwall
Post by: Pb_devon on May 13, 2013, 12:16:20
what is slightly worrying, is that WG have a heritage fleet of 10, including 3 Routemasters.  I wonder if they have been lost?


Title: Re: Fires destroy buses at Western Greyhound fleet depots in Cornwall
Post by: anthony215 on May 13, 2013, 12:24:36
From what I have heard is that 4 out of 6 Mercedes-Benz Citaro's have been destroyed along with a number of double deckers.

Sadly there was one heritage vehicle on site which it seems could be one of the victims. Hopefully we will learn what caused this blaze and if it was arson the little buggers are caught and maybe their familys given a nice bill.

Anyway it could have been much worse as thank heavens Western Greyhound have other outstations so they havent lost their entire fleet of vehicles and credit where it is due other operators seem to have come to Western Greyhounds aid by loaning them vehicles and covering services


Title: Re: Fires destroy buses at Western Greyhound fleet depots in Cornwall
Post by: LiskeardRich on May 13, 2013, 12:50:08
I've been into Truro today (by train, cheaper than parking). I observed WK04OKE, WK10AZU, WK11APY operating the Park and Ride into the City Centre, WK10AZU being the only P+R livering bus observed. WK04OKE is a Citaro, but not a P+R liveried model. WK11APY is an Optare Solo.
Also spotted 578PTA operating a 594 service,assuming this isnt a normal Mid/West Cornwall bus as it had a hand written destination in the windscreen with the blind displaying western greyhounds website.

2 hours ago WG posted the following on their facebook page.

Quote
The situation at present is that all routes are running fairly close to normal with the following exceptions: 524, 525 and 594 reduced service, and 522, 547, 550, 551, 556, 557, 558, 559, 585, 586, 596 nothing operating (although it is possible we may be able to get some journeys operating during the day). Many thanks to everyone for your messages of support and sympathy in this tragic loss.

Considering their loss I find it remarkable they have managed to get so many services running.


Title: Re: Fires destroy buses at Western Greyhound fleet depots in Cornwall
Post by: LiskeardRich on May 13, 2013, 19:30:06
Looks like they're sending out their routemaster tomorrow in order to get a service on one route.

Quote
Due to a major fire at our depot in Summercourt, there is currently major disruption across our network.

The following services ARE NOT RUNNING:
522, 547, 550, 551, 556, 557, 558, 559, 585, 586, 596

The following services are running with REDUCED SERVICE:
524, 525

Unless stated, all other services are running as normal.

It is hoped to run the same level of service on Tuesday 15th May 2013. We are pleased to say that we will be running a partial service on the 586 using our red London Routemaster. The reduced timetable for this service is available on the website now - please go to the 586 page

Looks like they will be full of enthusiasts enjoying that moment, and moaning commuters that they are getting an old bus!


Title: Re: Fires destroy buses at Western Greyhound fleet depots in Cornwall
Post by: anthony215 on May 13, 2013, 21:07:38
From one of the bus groups I am a member of, a provisional list of the vehicles destroyed in this fire sadly including one heritage vehicle although the rest are parked elsewhere:

1x Bristol VR (269, JWV 269W)
 5x Mercedes Citaro (4 of 6 Truro P&R + 207)
 2x ADL Enviro400 (401 & 402 from Service 510)
 4x Dennis Trident (440, 442, 444, 445)
 8x Volvo Olympian (450, 452, 453, 467, 473, 475, 498, 499)
 1x Dennis Javelin (trainer DSU107)

Seems like the heritage fleet a being pressed into service to provide some cover which is better than no service at all.

First Devon and cornwall have said they will be accepting some Western Greyhound tickets on parts of routes which are operated by services from both operators.

Other operators have offered buses to Western Greyhound if they require them.


Title: Re: Fires destroy buses at Western Greyhound fleet depots in Cornwall
Post by: Pb_devon on May 13, 2013, 21:35:03
thanks anthony215........ could have been worse


Title: Re: Fires destroy buses at Western Greyhound fleet depots in Cornwall
Post by: JayMac on May 13, 2013, 23:50:05
Very nice to see that First D&C have offered to accept WG tickets on parallel routes.

Also nice to see that replacement buses from other operators have been offered.


Title: Re: Fires destroy buses at Western Greyhound fleet depots in Cornwall
Post by: thetrout on May 14, 2013, 01:09:33
When I lived in Cornwall up until 2006, I had the pleasure of using the Western Greyhound Services. So I am rather saddened to hear this.

Western Greyhound do seem to operate a lifeline for some villages which really are out in the sticks. I can certainly name a few Villages which have a regular bus service that would put Melksham' Rail service to shame! So for them to lose such a large amount of buses doesn't really need a comment on how it will affect a normally very well run service. Not to mention the hundreds of people who RELY on those services.

I remember my schooling days when I was one of them. I used the 593 (Newquay - Plymouth) Service quite a lot and for such a long distance by road and without the luxuries of the Goss Moor and Dobwalls Bypasses we have now, even in the holidays it remained a very punctual service. (Sometimes too punctual). I believe they changed the timetables after I left Cornwall and the service became very poor in terms of punctuality for a while in the Liskeard area. But has since improved gradually as they changed the routes around.

The real "luck" here (and I use that term very, very loosely) is that as they operate such a wide network stretching from Plymouth down towards Penzance. They have a number of satellite posts for their buses to sleep as others have mentioned.

When I used to get the last evening 593 Service from Dobwalls into Bodmin every Tuesday which normally ran empty if I wasn't on it. Depending on who was driving, the Bus would detour slightly through the trading estate and run via Bodmin General Station, so I could alight at Mount Folly (Bodmin Town Centre basically. The bus then used to drive onto Morrisons, without having to turn around in the Mount Folly Junction, where it would spend the evening in the Supermarket car park!

It was also a fairly frequent sight to see parked up Mercedes Varios in Morrisons Car Park in Liskeard also. So they do have places to sleep. A Driver said to me that they rotate the fleet around so each bus gets back to the main depot in order for it to be serviced and safety checked.

I also remember a conversation with a timetable planner after I rasied concerns that they might axe that last evening 593 to Bodmin. Being 15 - 16 at the time and one senior trout working  away all week, It was inconvenient enough to be collected from Bodmin by the remaining senior trout, but without that bus out there, the evening would have been a total none starter. My concerns were completely unfounded, as it was a busy service from Plymouth back into Liskeard which emptied out on the way, and the bus would have to be parked back in Bodmin anyway for service the following morning. So the company ran it as an advertised service even though they were never likely to receive any need for it... Apart from ^1.10 every Tuesday ;) :D :)

So I hope they manage to get things sorted for them. Really cannot blame them for the problems under the circumstances. Good common sense to use a Heritage on some of the routes. If it works then why not? Although they may have created an inadvertent spotter club ;D

Also good to see other operators helping out in such cases... Maybe XC should consider taking a leaf out of the book! :P ;) :D

If the cause turns out to be Arson, IMHO it would make this matter so much worse :( So I really am hoping it isn't! :-\ :-X


Title: Re: Fires destroy buses at Western Greyhound fleet depots in Cornwall
Post by: JayMac on May 14, 2013, 11:08:11
An update from the BBC (http://):

Quote
Western Greyhound bus depot fire 'may have been arson'

A fire at a bus depot in Cornwall which destroyed 35 vehicles may have been started deliberately, police have said.

The blaze in Summercourt, near Newquay, broke out at about 01:00 BST on Monday.

A third of bus company Western Greyhound's fleet was burnt out causing widespread disruption to transport services in Cornwall.

Devon and Cornwall Police want anyone who may have seen "suspicious activity" in the area of the depot to contact them.

The burnt-out buses included two brand new vehicles which cost more than ^100,000 each, and four of Truro's six park-and-ride buses.

There was no damage to the depot's offices or workshops and there were no reports of any injuries.

Western Greyhound has been operating buses in Devon and Cornwall since 1998.

It describes itself as a "locally based, family-run business".


Title: Re: Fires destroy buses at Western Greyhound fleet depots in Cornwall
Post by: anthony215 on May 17, 2013, 01:22:00
According to their facebook page Western Greyhound have received 2 buses from Stagecoach as well as 1 Mercedes-benz vario from Anglian Bus, Beccles and 3 Optare Solo's from Blackpool Transport.

Certainly it nice to see other operators from across the uk stepping up to help Western Greyhound


Title: Re: Fires destroy buses at Western Greyhound fleet depots in Cornwall
Post by: JayMac on May 17, 2013, 01:40:25
Further news from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-22551200):

Quote
Western Greyhound bus services resume after depot fire

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/67572000/jpg/_67572225_67572224.jpg)

A bus firm which lost a third of its fleet in a fire has said most routes are now running "close to normal".

Western Greyhound lost 35 buses in the blaze at Summercourt, on Monday, which caused widespread disruption to public transport.

It said it had ordered replacement buses from across the country to return to a full service as soon as possible.

Arsonists are suspected of starting the fire at the depot which was tackled by more than 60 firefighters.

On the company's website it said "all routes are running fairly close to normal".

However, a number of exceptions have been listed.

It added it was using "every single bus available" to them and if there were problems there could be "short-term cancellations as no replacement buses are currently available as they usually are".

No-one was injured in the blaze and Devon and Cornwall Police wants anyone who may have seen "suspicious activity" in the area of the depot to contact them.


Title: Re: Fires destroy buses at Western Greyhound fleet depots in Cornwall
Post by: LiskeardRich on May 22, 2013, 14:16:04
A full list of destroyed and hired vehicles
Quote
Mercedes/Plaxton Beavers; 564, 566, 572
 P&R Citaros: 201, 202, 204, 205
 Green Citaro: 207
 Solos: 816, 818, 819, 910, 912, 931, 951, 952, 958, 982, 988
 E400 d/decks: 401, 402
 Trident d/decks: 440, 442, 444, 445
 Olympian d/decks; 450, 452, 453, 467, 473, 475, 498, 499
 Heritage VR 259
 Driver training bus; DSU 107
 Solo 931 was badly burned and assessors are working on whether it is repairable.
 We currently have replacements in the form of:
 Merc/Plaxton Beavers; 500, 522, 552 back on the road
 2 x Merc/Plaxon Beavers from Carmel, Northlew
 3 Anglian Merc/Plaxton Beavers
 1 x Stagecaoch Dart, 1 x Stagecoach Solo
 3 x Blackpool Transport Solos
 3 Norfolk Green Solos
 1 Optare Solo SR demonstrator

Their Facebook states they are currently working to get several of their older withdrawn Beavers back on the road.


Title: Re: Fires destroy buses at Western Greyhound fleet depots in Cornwall
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on July 23, 2013, 22:02:59
Another update, from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-23424763):

Quote
Two arrested over Western Greyhound Summercourt bus depot fire

Two men from Bristol have been arrested by police investigating a fire at a bus depot in Cornwall.

Thirty-five vehicles operated by Western Greyhound were destroyed or damaged during the blaze at the depot in Summercourt, near Newquay, in May.

Devon and Cornwall Police said the men, aged 43 and 18, were arrested in Bristol on Monday on suspicion of arson and interviewed in Launceston. They were released on bail until December.

More than 60 firefighters tackled the blaze on 13 May.

Western Greyhound said about a third of its fleet was affected. Among the vehicles destroyed were two new ^100,000 coaches and four of Truro's six park-and-ride buses.



Edit note: Link to BBC News story fixed. Chris.  :-[


Title: Re: Fires destroy buses at Western Greyhound fleet depots in Cornwall
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 23, 2013, 22:25:44
Erhem: http://the BBC is not a well-formed uri.

Maybe one of the mods could sort it for you  :P


Title: Re: Fires destroy buses at Western Greyhound fleet depots in Cornwall
Post by: TonyK on July 23, 2013, 22:30:04
Or I could. Try this  link (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-23424763), Red Squirrel


Title: Re: Fires destroy buses at Western Greyhound fleet depots in Cornwall
Post by: thetrout on July 24, 2013, 00:59:25
chris has been on the tipple stuff again :P ;D


Title: Re: Fires destroy buses at Western Greyhound fleet depots in Cornwall
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on July 24, 2013, 22:38:09
My apologies for trying to post that link rather hastily from a laptop swaying about somewhat on an unstable seat - issue now resolved, with my thanks to Red Squirrel and Four Track, Now! - and a clip round the ear to thetrout for being cheeky.  ::)


Title: Re: Fires destroy buses at Western Greyhound fleet depots in Cornwall
Post by: GBM on January 24, 2014, 08:18:35
BBC Radio Cornwall reporting this morning of another fire in Western Greyhound outstation at Liskeard.
Three vehicles destroyed, others OK, but fire investigators not permitting the ok vehicles out of the yard until their investigations are complete.
Arson being muted, but early days.
More disruption for passengers.


Title: Re: Fires destroy buses at Western Greyhound fleet depots in Cornwall
Post by: bobm on January 24, 2014, 11:20:21
More now on the  BBC Website (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-25875939)

Quote
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/72496000/jpg/_72496582_72496577.jpg)
Eleven Western Greyhound buses at the Liskeard depot cannot leave
Three buses have been destroyed in a second suspected arson attack at a Western Greyhound depot in Cornwall.

People living nearby raised the alarm after seeing the flames at the depot in Trevecca, Liskeard at about 06:30 GMT.

In May, 35 buses were written off after a severe fire in another suspected arson attack at the firm's depot in Summercourt.

Greyhound manager Mark Howarth said: "It is not as bad as the last one, but one wonders why they are doing this."

Police and Cornwall Fire and Rescue Service have both confirmed that they are treating the fire at the Liskeard depot as arson.

Buses stuck
 
The fire has led to disruption to services because the depot and nearby roads have been closed while investigations continue.

Eleven Western Greyhound buses, including school buses, and two Plymouth City Bus vehicles parked at the Liskeard depot cannot leave.

Buses at the depot served three routes, the 593 between Newquay and Plymouth, the 572 between Polperro and Plymouth and the 573 between Polperro and Callington.

Mr Howarth said said: "We are waiting for the all clear to get the buses out.

"We are trying to run the full 593 service with buses from Summercourt, but the 572 and 573 and related school buses won't operate until further notice."

Plymouth City Bus said that services 120 and 121 were affected, but replacement buses were on their way.

The firm tweeted: "Apologies for this disruption which is beyond our control."

Two men arrested on suspicion of arson after last year's fire at Summercourt were released on police bail.


Title: Re: Fires destroy buses at Western Greyhound fleet depots in Cornwall
Post by: LiskeardRich on January 24, 2014, 20:16:34
Three Mercedes Varios destroyed from the video footage on BBC News


Title: Re: Fires destroy buses at Western Greyhound fleet depots in Cornwall
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 24, 2014, 21:26:23
With thanks to forum members who have updated this topic, I've now amended its heading to cover this latest development.


Title: Re: Fires destroy buses at Western Greyhound fleet depots in Cornwall
Post by: GBM on January 25, 2014, 10:30:28
Thanks Chris. 
Seemed a shame to start a new thread when there was already one underway-even tho' the one underway was a different date & location!
 :o


Title: Re: Fires destroy buses at Western Greyhound fleet depots in Cornwall
Post by: RichardB on January 26, 2014, 18:11:10
What desperately sad news.  Shocking that someone thinks this is a good thing to do.


Title: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: bobm on April 28, 2014, 20:12:36
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-27186429)

Quote
Double decker bus catches fire in Marlborough, Wiltshire

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/74488000/jpg/_74488449_74482814.jpg)
The rear of the double decker was engulfed by flames while on Marlborough High Street

Passengers fled from a double decker bus after it caught fire in Wiltshire.

The blaze was spotted when the bus was in High Street, Marlborough, at about 08:30 BST. Flames soon engulfed the rear of the vehicle.

A fire service spokesman said the driver had suffered from the effects of smoke inhalation but there had been no other injuries.

The High Street has been closed and Wiltshire Police said a diversion has been put in place.


Title: Re: Double decker bus catches fire in Marlborough - 28 Apr 14
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on April 28, 2014, 21:13:36
Could have been worse - it could have happened in Longleat (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13897.0).  ;) :D ;D


(edited, very nervously, to fix quote - bobm)


Title: Re: Double decker bus catches fire in Marlborough - 28 Apr 14
Post by: Timmer on April 29, 2014, 16:49:56
Could have been worse - it could have happened in Longleat (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13897.0).  ;) :D ;D

(edited, very nervously, to fix quote - bobm)
Yeah and those in the Points West region would have to watch the same story rerun over and over again a few days after. Was obviously a slow news week last week in the West country.


Title: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 09, 2014, 23:15:53
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-27326351):

Quote
Passengers flee as bus gutted by fire near Caernarfon

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/74721000/jpg/_74721913_74721912.jpg)
One of the passengers said the bus was in flames within minutes but everyone got off safely

A bus company is investigating the cause of a fire which gutted one of its vehicles in Gwynedd.

About seven passengers and the driver had to flee the bus when it caught fire between Y Fron and Rhosgadfan, near Caernarfon, on Wednesday afternoon.

Nobody was injured - however the single-deck vehicle was completely destroyed by the blaze.

A spokesman for operators Express Motors said maintenance issues have already been ruled out as a cause.

Mother-of-two Lucy Price, 36, said she had been shopping in Caernarfon with a friend and was returning home when the fire started shortly before 15:00 BST.

"There were about seven passengers on the bus and the bus driver," she said. "We had just scaled a steep hill when the bus pulled over and it literally filled with black smoke within seconds. I was sitting on the back seat of the bus with my friend and we made our way safely to the front with everybody else and got off."

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/74723000/jpg/_74723527_busfire3.jpg)
Peter Thornton captured images of the bus - and later discovered his daughter had been on it

"Within about five minutes the bus was full of flames and there was a big bang and the windows blew out."

Ms Price praised the bus driver who made sure his passengers were safe, but she said the incident could have been a lot worse and she had a lucky escape.

Unknown to Ms Price, her father Peter Thornton arrived at the scene while on his way to collect his grandson from school and took some photographs of the burning bus.

A spokesman for Express Motors in Caernarfon, said: "We are looking into this incident in great depth and we're concerned about what has happened. But it was not as dramatic as some media reports are suggesting.

"We have great concern for our passengers and staff and the good name of our company. We pride ourselves on our service. The company has been operating for nearly 40 years under the present management.

"We do know the fire is not down to a poorly maintained vehicle. Our driver at the scene dealt with the incident in a prompt and professional manner and made sure the passengers got safely off the bus."

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/74722000/jpg/_74722066_74721635.jpg)
Express Motors said the fire was not down to a poorly maintained vehicle


Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 14, 2014, 23:22:26
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-29596734):

Quote
School coach catches fire in Ashcott

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/78180000/jpg/_78180729_78180728.jpg)
The coach caught fire in Ashcott near Street

A school coach with about 40 children on board has caught fire in a Somerset village.

The coach was destroyed in the incident on the A39 in Ashcott, but all of the children got off safely.

The driver saw fire coming from the dashboard just before 08:30 BST and tried to put it out with a fire extinguisher.

Devon and Somerset fire service was called, and properties were evacuated, but everyone has now returned home.

The road is expected to be closed until about 11:30 BST while the vehicle is recovered. Power lines will also need to be checked for damage.


Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: JayMac on October 15, 2014, 00:35:50
Shouldn't laugh, and glad there were no injuries, but 'fire coming from the dashboard' reminded me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfiIiQfMPT4

 :D


Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: LiskeardRich on October 15, 2014, 06:58:40
Shouldn't laugh, and glad there were no injuries, but 'fire coming from the dashboard' reminded me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfiIiQfMPT4

 :D

I can't follow the link on my current device, but by any chance is it The Jolly Boys Outing episode of Only Fools and Horses?


Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: JayMac on October 15, 2014, 07:17:12
But of course!  ;D


Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: ChrisB on October 15, 2014, 09:40:14
Hmm - Metro has the story with half a dozen pupils onboard


Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: tomL on October 15, 2014, 12:42:07
But of course!  ;D

Don't worry, Harry, I won't tell your guv'nor about it!  ;D


Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: LiskeardRich on October 15, 2014, 13:38:29
Hope it was fitted with a Fire Distinguisher!


Title: Burning bus explodes in south London street - 5 November 2014 (no, really!)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 05, 2014, 17:36:48
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-29913960):

Quote
Burning bus explodes in south London street

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/78773000/jpg/_78773221_busfire.jpg)
It is thought the heat caused the tyres to explode

A burning London bus showered a south London street in debris when its tyres are thought to have exploded in the fierce heat.

The blaze happened at the junction of Stafford Road and Sandy Lane in Wallington, at 14:00 GMT on Tuesday.

The driver of the 157 pulled over to the side of the road and got passengers off as smoke came from the back.

London Ambulance service treated one person for shock. The cause of the fire is not thought to be suspicious.

"There was an explosion on the bus which threw debris from the bus across the road," a police spokesman said.

Transport for London said: "There was substantial damage to the bus including the tyres which may have been the cause of the small bang people heard."

Firefighters were called after smoke began coming from the back. "As it was during a strike by fire brigade workers, two contingency crews were sent out," London Fire Brigade (LFB) said in a statement. "The bus was evacuated and LFB left the scene at about 15:10 GMT."

The cause of the fire is apparently non-suspicious, so there is no truth in the rumour police are looking for a guy.  :P


Title: Re: Burning bus explodes in south London street - 5 November 2014 (no, really!)
Post by: ChrisB on November 05, 2014, 17:40:40
Wallington is in Surrey....


Title: Re: Burning bus explodes in south London street - 5 November 2014 (no, really!)
Post by: stuving on November 05, 2014, 17:43:33
Wallington is in Surrey....
... or was - from Wikipedia:
Quote
Wallington is a town in the London Borough of Sutton situated 10.3 miles (16.6 km) south south-west of Charing Cross. Prior to the merger of the Municipal Borough of Beddington and Wallington into the London Borough of Sutton, it was part of the county of Surrey


Title: Re: Burning bus explodes in south London street - 5 November 2014 (no, really!)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 05, 2014, 17:46:23
... and before anyone points out that the incident actually happened yesterday, I know - I merely went for slight poetic license to make the joke topical.  ::)


Title: 30 coaches in Merthyr Tydfil depot catch fire in huge blaze - 28 December 2014
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 28, 2014, 12:48:57
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-30615428):

Quote
26 coaches in Merthyr depot catch fire in huge blaze

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/79957000/jpg/_79957086_coaches2.jpg)
The burnt out shells of the coaches at Pant Industrial Estate in Merthyr Tydfil

A huge blaze has swept through a depot in Merthyr Tydfil, causing 26 coaches to catch fire.

More than 40 firefighters tackled it at First Call Coaches at Pant Industrial Estate on Sunday.

South Wales Fire and Rescue Service said it arrived at the scene shortly after 01:00 GMT to find the fire had also spread into the main workshop.

"Prompt action prevented a fire from spreading to surrounding businesses," a spokesman said.

South Wales Police and the fire service are both investigating.

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/79956000/jpg/_79956505_busfire2.jpg)
Firefighters assess the damage after the huge blaze at First Call Coaches in Merthyr Tydfil



Title: Re: 30 coaches in Merthyr Tydfil depot catch fire in huge blaze - 28 December 2014
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 28, 2014, 17:02:37
An update, from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-30615428):

Quote
30 coaches in Merthyr depot destroyed in huge blaze

A huge blaze has swept through a depot in Merthyr Tydfil, destroying 30 coaches, five minibuses and a car.

The inferno triggered a series of explosions at First Call Coaches at Pant Industrial Estate on Sunday.

More than 40 firefighters tackled the blaze which started shortly after 01:00 GMT.

South Wales Police and South Wales Fire and Rescue are investigating, with a spokesman calling it "a scene of devastation".

By the time fire crews arrived, the blaze had spread to the main workshop.

"It was a scene of devastation. Various vehicles had minor explosions," a fire service spokesman said.

"Prompt action prevented a fire from spreading to surrounding businesses."

A police spokesman said: "The neighbouring A465 was closed to traffic due to smoke and debris on the road and diversions were put in place."

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/79957000/jpg/_79957086_coaches2.jpg)
The burnt out shells of the coaches at Pant Industrial Estate in Merthyr Tydfil

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/79958000/jpg/_79958032_merth1.jpg)
Firefighters at the scene of the huge blaze

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/79956000/jpg/_79956505_busfire2.jpg)
Firefighters assess the damage after the huge blaze at First Call Coaches in Merthyr Tydfil

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/79958000/jpg/_79958812_merth2.jpg)
The fire also spread into the main workshop

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/79958000/jpg/_79958874_merth5.jpg)
Some of the burnt-out coaches

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/79958000/jpg/_79958816_merth3.jpg)
Firefighters at the scene of the burnt-out coaches

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/79958000/jpg/_79958820_merth4.jpg)
Fire damage to the main workshop with some of the destroyed coaches



Title: Re: 30 coaches in Merthyr Tydfil depot catch fire in huge blaze - 28 December 2014
Post by: anthony215 on December 28, 2014, 18:16:03
This story is doing the rounds on the local bus forums in wales as well as on facebook. Never a nice thing to happen especially when the owners have put a lot of hard work building up the business.

One good thing is that the local operators are  offering  a helping hand to 1st Call.


Title: Re: 30 coaches in Merthyr Tydfil depot catch fire in huge blaze - 28 December 2014
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 28, 2014, 18:52:25
Indeed, it's good to see other bus operators pulling together to help one of their own: the same happened when Western Greyhound suffered depot fires in Cornwall (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=12415.0), discussed previously on this forum.

However, the aspect which I find slightly alarming is to see again just how combustible (if you'll pardon the pun) buses and coaches can be. For example, see also the topic on a bus fire at Caernarfon (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13984.0) and a school coach fire in Somerset (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=14727.0).  :o


Title: Re: 30 coaches in Merthyr Tydfil depot catch fire in huge blaze - 28 December 2014
Post by: anthony215 on December 28, 2014, 19:04:24
Since I work for First as a bus driver now in South Wales after my spell at Worcester I have seen a video showing one of our buses showing it go up in flames to the point that it was a burnt out wreck and it was frightening to see how fast the fire spread.

One problem with a lot of depots is that the fires can spread very quickly particulary with vehicles parked so close together a good example being the fire at First's Westbourne park depot in London as well as the recent example with Western Greyhound.

At least one good thing which comes out of this is the close working relationships between the various operators in the industry who all pull together to help one of their own with vehicles sometimes coming from operators many miles from the operator concerned.


Title: Re: 30 coaches in Merthyr Tydfil depot catch fire in huge blaze - 28 December 2014
Post by: LiskeardRich on December 28, 2014, 19:09:52
The report keeps mentioning 30 buses, yet the operator only has a licence for 15 at this site.
It has been suggested on another forum that another unnamed operator had some vehicles on this site as well


Title: Re: 30 coaches in Merthyr Tydfil depot catch fire in huge blaze - 28 December 2014
Post by: anthony215 on December 28, 2014, 19:42:47
I believe there is another operator who has been using some of the spare space available to park some vehicles as their site is not large enough to park all their vehicles on. Also 1st Call did have a couple of withdrawn vehicles parked at the back of their yard which were being stripped for spare parts before being scrapped.


Title: Re: 30 coaches in Merthyr Tydfil depot catch fire in huge blaze - 28 December 2014
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 05, 2015, 18:12:13
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-30687398):

Quote
Merthyr Tydfil bus depot blaze being treated as arson

A huge fire at a bus depot which destroyed 30 coaches, five minibuses and a car is being treated as arson.

The blaze needed 57 firefighters to bring it under control after it broke out in the early hours of 28 December at First Call Coaches in Pant Industrial Estate, Merthyr Tydfil.

South Wales Fire and Rescue Service confirmed it was treating the blaze as a "deliberate fire".

Investigators studied CCTV footage to help decide the cause.

The enormous blaze triggered a series of explosions.

The coaches were parked very close together, partly as a security measure to prevent anyone trying to steal fuel or batteries and parts.

However, firefighters said that had helped the fire spread quickly.

Describing the scene, Dewi Jones from South Wales Fire Service told BBC Wales: "There's total devastation.

"Prompt action prevented a fire from spreading to surrounding businesses."


Title: Re: 30 coaches in Merthyr Tydfil depot catch fire in huge blaze - 28 December 2014
Post by: TheLastMinute on January 14, 2015, 20:22:31
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-30687398):
Quote
Merthyr Tydfil bus depot blaze being treated as arson

Having had dealing with this company, I can't say I'm surprised.

TLM


Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 21, 2015, 22:03:54
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-31998937):

Quote
Double decker destroyed in south London fire

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/81811000/jpg/_81811691_abd690cc-f489-4e6f-a319-60e0a80e896e.jpg)
The bus was out of service at the time

A double decker bus has been destroyed in a suspected engine fire in south London.

Fire broke out in the bus at about 09:20 GMT on Forest Hill Road in Wood Vale near to Honor Oak Park. Clouds of thick black smoke could be seen for miles around.

The route 172 bus was out of service when the fire broke out, with only the driver on board.

London Fire Brigade said the fire was quickly put out and no-one was hurt.

The Metropolitan Police said the blaze started with a suspected engine fire and was not suspicious.

Ken Davidson, Transport for London's head of bus operations said the fire was being investigated.


Now, I have raised this concern before, but whenever I see such stories, I wonder why buses are so apparently - well - combustible?  :o


Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: Surrey 455 on March 22, 2015, 01:05:01
Just out of curiosity, what are buses made of?  What material was able to melt away like that?


Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: JayMac on March 22, 2015, 01:37:59
Extruded aluminium and aluminium panels for the structure typically. More modern buses than the one in this thread may make greater use of composite materials. Relatively low melting point for aluminium and with lots of laminates and plastics to fuel a fire I can see its perfectly possible for the 660 degrees celsius heat to be reached to melt the aluminium.


Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: onthecushions on July 30, 2015, 19:47:11
Where do bendy buses go to retire?


Malta, I'm told.

OTC


Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: trainer on July 30, 2015, 22:17:53
Where do bendy buses go to retire?


Malta, I'm told.

OTC

I seem to remember reading in Buses magazine that they've been banned from there some time ago after a series of engine fires.


Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on July 30, 2015, 23:03:45
I seem to remember reading in Buses magazine that they've been banned from there some time ago after a series of engine fires.

Indeed they were - from the London Evening Standard (http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/bendy-buses-sent-from-london-to-malta-taken-off-their-roads-after-three-burst-into-flames-8788929.html), on 29 August 2013:

Quote
Bendy buses sent from London to Malta taken off their roads after three burst into flames

(http://www.standard.co.uk/incoming/article8789120.ece/alternates/w620/AN26940288Bendy-bus-on-fire.jpg)
Up in smoke: Malta have suspended the fleet after three went up in flames

The doomed bendy buses decommissioned by London Mayor Boris Johnson and shipped to Malta have been taken off the roads by the government after three burst into flames in as many days. The fleet of 68 of the so-called ^chariots of fire^ have been temporarily suspended while an investigation into the causes of the blazes is carried out. So far this year nine bendy buses have caught fire, with Malta^s transport ministry instructing operator Arriva to remove the unpopular vehicles.

No-one has been injured, but the incidents have prompted a barrage of complaints from the public already angered that the 18-metre buses have been brought in to negotiate Malta^s narrow and winding historic roads.

The Maltese fleet was bought from London in 2011 after being phased out by the Mayor who replaced them with a new-generation Routemaster. They had a chequered history in the capital, with a number of fires breaking out and cyclists complaining they were unsafe for other road users.

Decommissioning the vehicles, Mr Johnson said: ^These writhing whales of the road have swung their hefty rear ends round our corners for the final time.^

In a statement, Arriva said: ^The safety of our passengers, employees and vehicles is central to our operations. To have incidents occur so closely together is extremely rare and as a result we are taking the precautionary step of bringing our vehicles in for a series of checks before returning them into active service. While these checks take place we have appointed another transport operator to support the delivery of day-to-day services and reduce the impact for our customers. We are ensuring that all routes are covered. We apologise for the disruption but ask passengers to bear with us while we conclude these important checks. We would like to reassure them that we are looking to resolve the disruption as soon as possible.^

Arriva said it expects it to take up to five weeks for all vehicles to be checked.


Edit note: Details of date and context of article added, for clarity. CfN.


Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: Surrey 455 on July 30, 2015, 23:18:34
I was in Cyprus earlier this month. The buses going past my hotel between Paralimni and Water Park via Ayia Napa were old (actually not that old) London single decker buses of the non bendy and non flammable variety. We caught one every evening for our nights out. They have been modified with air conditioning and speakers playing which ever radio station the driver fancied.



Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: Worcester_Passenger on August 01, 2015, 08:13:09
The Evening Standard story looks odd. There's a quote from Arriva - but I thought that they stopped running the buses on Malta att the end of 2013. Is this a re-cycling of an old story perhaps?


Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: stuving on August 01, 2015, 09:03:12
The Evening Standard story looks odd. There's a quote from Arriva - but I thought that they stopped running the buses on Malta att the end of 2013. Is this a re-cycling of an old story perhaps?

The  Evening Standard story is indeed dated 29 August 2013. That's why I think it helps to capture the date when copying a news item as a quotation.


Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on August 01, 2015, 11:30:55
Comments noted. I've amended my previous post to include details of the date and context of the article I quoted. My apologies for any confusion. :-[


Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 03, 2016, 01:24:43
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-38182219):

Quote
Bus engulfed by fireball on Kingston High Street

A bus erupted into a fireball on a busy street during rush hour, causing people to be evacuated from their homes and businesses.

The 371 service became engulfed in flames on High Street, Kingston, south-west London, at about 09:00 GMT.

The driver was taken to hospital for treatment for the effects of breathing in smoke.

There had been fears the bus might explode, although the fire has since been brought under control.

One witness told The Telegraph the scene was "pretty chaotic".

Witness Martin Delaney said: "The road was taped off, there were acrid burning smells, local shops' fire alarms or smoke detectors had been triggered - it was quite a mess."

No passengers required medical treatment. Transport for London said there would be a full investigation into the fire, the cause of which is not yet known.

Kingston High Street remains closed.

(http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/245E/production/_92801390_capture1.jpg)

(http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/1383A/production/_92803997_cyq8yqhwiaawze6.jpg)


I think I have asked this question before, but what is it about modern buses that they are apparently so combustible?  :o



Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 22, 2017, 20:34:21
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-40000810):

Quote
Coach carrying 25 schoolchildren catches fire

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/8647/production/_96157343_mediaitem96157342.jpg)
The children were safely evacuated from the bus after the smell of smoke was detected

A coach carrying children to school caught fire on route to its destination in West Sussex.

Smoke was smelt on the bus, which had 25 children on board, at 08:20 BST on Vowels Lane, near East Grinstead.

Head teacher at Imberhorne School, Martin Brown, said all the pupils managed to get out safely before the blaze took hold.

"They are now in school and being monitored in case of any shock or upset after the event," he added.

The cause of the fire is being investigated.

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/D467/production/_96157345_mediaitem96157344.jpg)
The children are being monitored at school for "shock and upset"

(https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/12287/production/_96157347_mediaitem96157346.jpg)
The children were kept a safe distance from the burning bus, the school said


I rather think that I have raised this question before, in previous cases of such conflagrations, but why is it that buses seem to be quite so, erm, combustible?  :o



Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: chrisr_75 on May 22, 2017, 23:23:51
Cars are much the same, it only takes a few minutes to reduce a car to a bare shell once a fire has taken hold.

Is that 3+2 seating I can see on that coach?


Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: JayMac on May 22, 2017, 23:49:57
Glad to read that everyone is okay.

My first thought on the cause is that maybe a radio/cassette unit had been supplied by Derek Trotter.


Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: Bmblbzzz on May 23, 2017, 10:59:15
It does look as if the fire started in the luggage compartment. It might have been in the transmission I suppose though.

As to the flammability of buses, surely it's because they're made of, or rather contain, lots of foam plastics and similar. I did once see a motorbike catch fire on the M4. I think the cause might have been a canvas pannier slipping on to hot exhaust – it overtook us and I noticed smoke, then some minutes later we saw it in considerably more smoke, lying on the ground, the rider having jumped off and all the traffic stopped (by a rather brave and very cool-headed woman stepping out of her car and giving an unmistakeable stop sign in lane 2). It took several more minutes till it really got going; it wasn't till it reached the petrol tank that it really flared up. But a coach won't have petrol so that's not a factor.


Title: British coach driver 'crashed to save passengers' in French Alps - 16 April 2013
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 22, 2017, 23:19:51
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-42083779):

Quote
Ashington driver 'crashed to save passengers' in French Alps

(https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/147D6/production/_98862938_56c32e27-7074-4797-8193-b39d95213c27.jpg)
The coach quickly became a "complete inferno", the inquest heard

A bus driver died when he deliberately crashed to save his passengers from plummeting off a road in the French Alps, an inquest has heard.

Maurice Wrightson drove into boulders on the narrow mountain road when he realised his brakes had failed.

Mr Wrightson, 63, from Ashington, died in the April 2013 crash and four of the 50 passengers were seriously injured.

French investigators said the driver "undoubtedly prevented" a more serious crash, Berwick Coroner's Court heard.

The coach, which was carrying British staff from the French ski resort Alpe d'Huez, was approaching the 21st hairpin bend on the D211 road.

Nathan Woodland, 39, the co-driver of the coach operated by County Durham-based Classic Coaches, told the inquest he felt the bus twitch and quickly became aware something was wrong.  He said: "Suddenly Maurice looked at me with a very shocked look on his face.  He said 'it's not stopping us'."

He said Mr Wrightson gripped the wheel very tightly and braced himself against his seat to apply more pressure to the brake.  Mr Woodland said: "I stepped into the aisle and shouted, 'grab a hold, hold tight'."

He then described how the coach smashed into the boulders and he was thrown a number of rows back.  As he picked himself up he saw people desperately trying to escape and flames begin to engulf the coach, which quickly turned into a "complete inferno".

He said the clothing of one woman, who was sitting behind the driver, caught fire as she was pulled from the bus by another passenger.

Speaking at the time, French transport minister Frederic Cuvillier said Mr Wrightson "showed remarkable courage" and avoided a "much heavier loss of life".

The inquest jury heard the French report concluded the brake failed as the pad had been "completely destroyed by excessive heating" due to the "poor condition of the hydraulic retarder".

The inquest continues.




Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 09, 2018, 02:56:07
Another incident, from the BBC:

Quote
'Amazing escape' for students after bus catches fire

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/624/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2018/3/8/87cd979f-8b7e-4d10-ab51-7376e05fa4a1.jpg)

The driver of this school bus has been praised for his quick-thinking after it burst into flames in the Malvern Hills in Worcestershire

Hereford and Worcester Fire and Rescue Service said the vehicle was travelling on the A449, near British Camp, at 08:39 when it caught fire and the students had to be quickly led to safety.

The road had to be closed while the blaze was put out and the fire service called it "an amazing escape for a coachload of students".




Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: stuving on March 09, 2018, 13:13:08
Another incident, from the BBC:

Quote
... the fire service called it "an amazing escape for a coachload of students".

Why 'amazing'? Buses are designed so passengers can escape quickly in the event of a fire, and teenagers (or even younger children) should be able to do that if anyone can.


Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: stuving on March 10, 2018, 18:50:39
Chobham Rugby Club coach fire: Players forced to abandon match after watching huge flames swallow coach and belongings
From getSurrey (https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/chobham-rugby-club-coach-fire-14394117):
Quote
A coach carrying members of Chobham Rugby Football Club caught on fire on Saturday (March 10)
ByAnn Yip    17:37, 10 MAR 2018Updated17:47, 10 MAR 2018

Members of a rugby club abandoned a match after their coach caught on fire.

About a dozen Chobham Rugby Football Club members who were on their way to a memorial match against Paignton RFC luckily escaped the burning coach safely.

They were left with no option but to watch as huge flames swallowed the vehicle and their belongings.

Players from the club's veterans team said the back of the coach they were travelling on caught fire at about 11.30am on Saturday (March 10) near Exeter Airport.

The coach driver was warned by passing car drivers of a fire at the back of the bus. It was then that the driver stopped the bus to allow passengers out.
(https://i2-prod.getsurrey.co.uk/incoming/article14394275.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/A-coach-with-Chobham-Rugby-Club-members-caught-on-fire.jpg)
A coach with Chobham Rugby Club members caught on fire (Image: Chobham Rugby Club)

Rugby club members were unable to open a door to retrieve their valuable kit and belongings.

Duncan Souster, a Chobham Rugby member who was travelling on the coach, said: "We were two-thirds of the way down the journey and a car passed us on the outside lane. They were flagging us down and wanting us to talk to the driver.

"He had his window down and was waving his arms out to tell the driver there was a fire at the back of the coach.

He added: "So the bus driver quickly pulled us over on the hard shoulder and we got out and watched the bus burn.

"Everybody just got up and got off the coach immediately and I realised that there was actually fire at the back. I thought it would just be smoke.

"All of our kit was in the first locker by the door, but we weren’t able to open the door. That was all of the playing strip, all our overnight bags, our personal possessions.

"We were supposed to wear our tour rugby shirts which we've had for years. Some guys have lost wallets and car keys.

"We had to stand at a distance and watch the fire happen.

"There were flames licking beyond the central reservation. It blew all the windows out, all the tyres, the whole bus was gutted. They stopped traffic in both directions for about an hour.

"We've managed to walk a mile to get a £100 cab down to Paignton," he said.

Mr Souster said if not for the loss of their playing kits, he would have been happy to continue with the match, which had been scheduled for 1pm.

He said: "Unfortunately, the game couldn't happen.

"This fixture has been going on for more than 20 years. Nothing would have stopped us playing the game. It's a memorial match as well."

Speaking about what happens now, Mr Souster said: "We’ve got to go buy some clothes and things overnight and we’re waiting to find out about a coach to get home tomorrow.

"The coach company said they’d sort that out for us.

"I haven’t worked out what was in my overnight bag which was lost in the fire. My rugby gear, my playing top. I’ve got no clothes for changing into."


Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: LiskeardRich on March 11, 2018, 21:30:09
And another near Tiverton Parkway today,

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/m5-coach-fire-captured-video-1326344

Edwards Van Hool YJ11AOC ex Parrys by the looks of it.


Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 09, 2018, 01:38:12
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44041597):

Quote
Why do Rome's buses keep catching fire?

A public bus engulfed in flames in a European capital - but no one in Rome thought to blame terrorism.

Instead they wearily pointed the finger at the city's beleaguered transport authority, Atac.

The blaze on the number 63 bus, which happened on the busy Via del Tritone shopping street in the city centre on Tuesday, was the ninth this year and follows 22 more last year.

So frequent have the fireballs become that they have their own social media hashtag #flambus (which rhymes with Trambus, Atac's previous name).

"Only in Rome does a bus explode in the heart of the city and people immediately blame Atac, with no thought of terrorism. It says a lot about our emergencies," said journalist Raffaella Menichini on social media.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DcqZTS0XUAAvfr_.jpg)

Atac blamed an ageing fleet and said the number of incidents was down on last year.  In its statement, Atac said no passengers had been hurt. But local media reported that a shop assistant working in a store near where the bus caught fire had been taken to hospital suffering from a burn to the arm and shock.

No passengers have been hurt in previous fires either, local reports say. But observers fear that it is only a matter of time before there are victims.  "Every day there is greater risk," wrote transport consultant Fabio Rosati, adding that an "urgent plan" to replace buses was needed.

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/13648/production/_101223497_mediaitem101223496.jpg)

Journalist Michele Galvani accused the city authorities of "playing with citizens' lives".  "Today could have been a massacre. In which other European capital do buses explode like this? These jokers play with citizens' lives and continue to make announcements," he said.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DcqbApMXUAAjkW1.jpg)

In March after the year's fifth bus fire, union officials warned of the risks to travellers.  "Atac services are unsafe. Drivers just have to pray that nothing happens and we don't want to think about what could happen when the hot weather comes because if we wait for this authority to solve the problem then we're in trouble. Or indeed, incinerated," the Faisa Confail union's regional secretary Claudio De Francesco told Roma Today.

The transport authority said the Mercedes Citaro bus that caught fire in Via del Tritone dated from 2003 and said its fleet "unfortunately has a very high average age".

Preliminary investigations say the bus suffered a short circuit before the blaze broke out, La Repubblica reported.

(https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/2924/production/_101223501_mediaitem101223500.jpg)
Unions say the buses suffer from a lack of maintenance

The fire began at the back of the bus and the bus driver quickly evacuated passengers before the flames spread, the newspaper said.

Video posted on social media appeared to show smoke pouring out of the back of the bus before an explosion accompanied by a loud bang that scattered onlookers.

Initial attempts to put the fire out with fire extinguishers failed but firefighters were on the scene shortly afterwards.

Drivers' unions say the buses suffer from a lack of maintenance. A series of internal investigations have failed to stop the fires.

Last month a bus that was just five years old caught fire, The Local reported.

Atac insists that it has increased fire-prevention measures and says that these have reduced fires by a quarter this year.

That is not enough for some, however. Carlo Rienzi from the consumer rights group Codacons said the "umpteenth" fire had prompted his organisation to demand that the public prosecutor take buses out of circulation if safety cannot be guaranteed.  "We can no longer be silent about what seems to all intents and purposes an emergency," Codacons said in a statement.

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/C564/production/_101223505_mediaitem101223504.jpg)
The blaze left a nearby building's facade blackened

Some on social media have blamed the administration of Mayor Virginia Raggi.  She is from the populist Five Star Movement and won power in 2016 promising to improve the city's notorious transport, water and rubbish services, which have long been plagued by corruption and a lack of investment.

Rome newspaper Diario Romano said Ms Raggi had not got to grips with the city's transport problems and accused her of "two years of failure".

One left-wing activist even compared her leadership to that of Emperor Nero from classical Rome, who is popularly said to have played the fiddle as fire devastated the city in the year 64.  "Not even Nero did what Raggi is doing," the activist said on social media.


 :o


Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: broadgage on May 09, 2018, 12:18:48
In view of the number of such incidents, I wonder if the engine compartments of buses should be fitted with automatic fire extinguishers ?
These are often fitted to the engine compartments of motor yachts.

IIRC the London Fire Brigade trialled a new piece of equipment for this sort of fire. It consisted of a length of steel pipe  with a sharpened steel point at one end, and a coupling to connect to hose reel tubing at the other end. The pointed end had a number of small holes.
To use, the pointed end was used to pierce the bodywork near the fire and the water turned on. The applied water to the seat of the fire without firemen opening doors and admitting air to feed the fire.
I saw this in use once and it seemed very effective, but I know not if it was generally adopted.

It was known as "the pig sticker" ! As the fire engine pulled up, the leading fireman ordered two men to "get to work with the pig sticker"


Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: stuving on May 09, 2018, 16:52:58
In view of the number of such incidents, I wonder if the engine compartments of buses should be fitted with automatic fire extinguishers ?
These are often fitted to the engine compartments of motor yachts.

In this case, the rest of the world has beaten you to it. Bus and coach safety is governed, for odd historical reasons, but UN (UNECE) regulations. For new full-size coaches (class III vehicles) fire suppression in engine compartments is compulsory from this year. For buses (classes I and II) this will be so also from 2020.

There are still technical issues around how best to do this in practice. The fire service's approach, water flooding, calls for so much water it would be very hard to fit it in (boats have an advantage here). Gas flooding only works in almost sealed compartments. The systems on offer use alternatives such as dry powder, foam, mist, etc. I imagine that vehicle makers have also been working on different ways to put boxes round the engine and other systems to help with this.


Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: Bmblbzzz on May 09, 2018, 19:47:21
Quite a lot of motor vehicle regulations are governed by UNECE. Or used to be, at least. When you see a component marked with a circle and a capital E inside it followed by a number, that indicates it conforms to UNECE regs.


Title: Re: Coaches and buses bursting into flames - why are they apparently so combustible? (merged topic)
Post by: broadgage on May 09, 2018, 21:12:16
In view of the number of such incidents, I wonder if the engine compartments of buses should be fitted with automatic fire extinguishers ?
These are often fitted to the engine compartments of motor yachts.

In this case, the rest of the world has beaten you to it. Bus and coach safety is governed, for odd historical reasons, but UN (UNECE) regulations. For new full-size coaches (class III vehicles) fire suppression in engine compartments is compulsory from this year. For buses (classes I and II) this will be so also from 2020.

There are still technical issues around how best to do this in practice. The fire service's approach, water flooding, calls for so much water it would be very hard to fit it in (boats have an advantage here). Gas flooding only works in almost sealed compartments. The systems on offer use alternatives such as dry powder, foam, mist, etc. I imagine that vehicle makers have also been working on different ways to put boxes round the engine and other systems to help with this.

On boats, vaporising liquid fire extinguishers used to be favoured, but these are prohibited for new installations due to the ozone destroying properties of the materials used.
The modern approach tends to be foam, stored in a small pressure vessel very like a portable extinguisher, and released via spray nozzles when fire breaks out.
Another approach is water under great pressure such that it forms a fine mist or fog.


Title: Deliberate bus fires
Post by: grahame on November 05, 2018, 12:52:08
Not a new thing, alas ...

What desperately sad news.  Shocking that someone thinks this is a good thing to do.

From ITV News (https://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2018-11-05/ten-buses-deliberately-set-on-fire-in-bristol/)

Quote
Ten buses 'deliberately' set on fire in Bristol

Firefighters battled to put out six double decker buses and four single buses in Bristol last night.

Crews from Temple and Bedminster were called to a bus depot on Kingsland Road in St Phillips.

Is this the spot just to the south of the railway where you can (or could) see a disparate selection of buses parked up as you approach Temple Meads from Keynsham?


Title: Re: Deliberate bus fires
Post by: LiskeardRich on November 05, 2018, 14:44:44
Latest from the fire brigade is not suspicious.
It’s at the Abus depot


Title: Re: Deliberate bus fires
Post by: Phantom on November 08, 2018, 10:20:06
Not a new thing, alas ...

What desperately sad news.  Shocking that someone thinks this is a good thing to do.

From ITV News (https://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2018-11-05/ten-buses-deliberately-set-on-fire-in-bristol/)

Quote
Ten buses 'deliberately' set on fire in Bristol

Firefighters battled to put out six double decker buses and four single buses in Bristol last night.

Crews from Temple and Bedminster were called to a bus depot on Kingsland Road in St Phillips.

Is this the spot just to the south of the railway where you can (or could) see a disparate selection of buses parked up as you approach Temple Meads from Keynsham?


Yes that's the one, on the left as the lines bends into Temple Meads
Many of aBuses are old outdated buses that at best were ready for a museum, some were new, but still sad to see as the guy who runs it has put many hours of graft into getting the bus company recognised in and around Bristol


Title: Bus fires
Post by: infoman on July 08, 2021, 06:31:09
some pics but no film footage on BBC local news


Title: bus fire in Bristol
Post by: infoman on March 25, 2022, 07:21:01
https://www.avonfire.gov.uk/bristol-incidents/3466-crews-respond-to-bus-fire-2


Title: Paris electric buses withdrawn due to fires
Post by: stuving on April 29, 2022, 20:10:39
From France24 (https://www.france24.com/en/france/20220429-paris-suspends-bollor%C3%A9-electric-buses-after-two-catch-fire):
Quote
Dozens of electric buses will be taken off the streets of Paris temporarily "as a precaution" after two of the vehicles caught fire, public transport operator RATP said Friday.

Following a second blaze on Friday morning, in which no one was hurt, "RATP has taken the decision to suspend use of 149 electric buses" of manufacturer Bollore's Bluebus 5SE model, the state-owned company said.

The number 71 bus that caught fire in southeast Paris early Friday released thick clouds of black smoke and a strong smell of burning plastic, according to an AFP journalist on the scene.

"The bus driver immediately evacuated all the passengers. Nobody was hurt," RATP said, while the city fire service said the blaze was put out by around 30 firefighters.

A first bus caught fire on the upscale Boulevard Saint-Germain in central Paris on April 4, destroying the vehicle but again causing no injuries.

Bluebus is part of the sprawling empire of French billionaire Vincent Bollore, whose interests range from transport and logistics to media, generating around 24 billion euros ($25 billion) per year in revenue with 80,000 employees.

Bollore's 12-metre (39-foot) electric buses are a familiar sight on the streets of the French capital, emblazoned with the words "100 percent electric vehicle".

On its website, the company says the buses are "fitted with a new generation of batteries... with high energy density and optimal safety" spread around the roof and rear of the vehicle.


The video in this report from Le Parisien (https://www.leparisien.fr/video/video-bus-en-feu-a-paris-regardez-les-images-du-debut-de-lincendie-du-vehicule-de-la-ratp-29-04-2022-KJZAIZDLUBCUXPCHKWBSULAUVM.php) shows how the fire started, with explosions in the roof (where the batteries are). Quite spectacular!


Title: Re: Paris electric buses withdrawn due to fires
Post by: Bmblbzzz on April 29, 2022, 20:16:01
Spectacular!

Three in one month sounds odd. I wonder if there's been a change in maintenance regime?

Second link doesn't work, by the way.


Title: Re: Paris electric buses withdrawn due to fires
Post by: stuving on April 29, 2022, 20:35:49
Spectacular!

Three in one month sounds odd. I wonder if there's been a change in maintenance regime?

Second link doesn't work, by the way.

It's only the two this month - makes all the difference, doesn't it?

And that extra "link" was an error; it was parked there during checking but only half deleted.


Title: Bus fire, Temple Meads 17/01/23
Post by: Bmblbzzz on January 17, 2023, 12:30:58
Now extinguished. Gas cylinders are mentioned, so presumably it was one of the gas-powered buses, though it's not clear whether that was in any way connected with the cause of the fire. No injuries reported.
https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/double-decker-bus-catches-fire-outside-bristol-temple-meads/


Title: Re: Paris electric buses withdrawn due to fires
Post by: stuving on January 17, 2023, 16:19:15
Bolloré, which made those Bluebuses, is back in the news - and it's fires again, but bigger!

One of the arguments against using hydrogen widely as a fuel is that it does burn and explode rather readily. You could make a similar argument against lithium-ion batteries: that lithium is highly reactive, burns spontaneously in air, and batteries do catch fire. And in any fire there is always the fear of toxic by-products - so is that an issue too? And especially in a really big fire, like a factory or energy store. 

Well, now someone has done a full-scale experiment to find out. Last night there as a spectacular fire in a big storage shed in Rouen, with 12,000 lithium batteries in it. The next-door unit also burned, and that was full of tyres, and a fire started in a third one. So far the word is that no dangerous air pollution has been measured - somewhat surprising just based on the tyres that burned (it's unclear how many of the 70,000 present did).

https://twitter.com/i/status/1615079748119728128

Exactly what "battery" implies here in terms of size in not clear.  At 6,000 square metres you could obviously stack 12,000 quite big ones in only part of the space, even if they are bus-sized. They were stored there by Bolloré Logistics, which obviously would not own them. But the Bolloré group does make batteries for transport and energy storage, and has made cars and probably still makes buses (Bluebus).

RATP uses a lot of Bluebuses in Paris, though that seems to be the only big customer. Last year they were recalled for modifications after those two caught fire in the street - said to be not an electrochemical issue, but still... They also supplied the Bluecar for the Paris car share/hire service Autolib, but that folded after problems of support and reliability and, of course, vandalism. Bolloré have said that they can't now compete with the big car makers, or with hire companies buying from them, after being into the field early.

The batteries Bolloré make they describe as "solid-state", unlike the usual kind, and they now make them mostly for stand-alone storage. Of course they may also have a load of old ones for their cars, or made for buses or other products, that needed storing. Supposedly they can be recycled, but that does not mean the capacity to do so exists yet.


Title: Re: Bus fire, Temple Meads 17/01/23
Post by: Bmblbzzz on January 18, 2023, 22:18:27
Now being investigated as arson, so the gas-power is exonerated.
Quote
A spokesperson for Avon & Somerset Police, said: “An investigation is underway after Avon Fire & Rescue Service confirmed that a fire on a 73 bus in Bristol was started deliberately.

“Fire crews tackled the blaze involving the First Bus vehicle on Temple Way soon after 10am on Tuesday 17 January.

“It’s now being investigated as arson with intent to endanger life.”
https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/bus-fire-outside-temple-mead-was-started-deliberately/


Title: suspected arson attack on bus's appeal
Post by: infoman on December 22, 2023, 05:34:00
https://news.met.police.uk/news/appeal-to-identify-man-after-fire-onboard-bus-477299

Not to mention the local one recently

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/stockwood-bus-arson-attack-cctv-8958116


Title: Bus fires
Post by: grahame on June 26, 2024, 08:33:00
Is it just me, or have there been a lot of bus fires recently?

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/busfires.jpg)

I have seen much comment about the danger of fire in electic vehicles / buses but it strikes me that all of these shown are diesel.   Is the problem any compact energy source??


Title: Re: Bus fires
Post by: ellendune on June 26, 2024, 13:29:01
Apparently although there is a lot of publicity about electric vehicle fires, the stats show that a conventional cars are more likely to catch fire.


Title: Re: Bus fires
Post by: LiskeardRich on June 26, 2024, 16:09:28
According to a recent traffic commissioner publication there has only been 1 electric bus fire to date that was caused by the bus systems.. The rest have been arson.

Meanwhile there has been an average of 3 diesel buses a month destroyed by fire according to the RMT over the last 2 years


Title: Re: Bus fires
Post by: broadgage on June 27, 2024, 00:39:31
I blame the increase in reports of bus fires on the general availability of camera phones !
A simple text only report that "a bus caught fire at XYZ, there were no injuries" is not that interesting. If however a dramatic picture or even video is available then it is more newsworthy.


Title: Re: Bus fires
Post by: grahame on June 27, 2024, 07:10:36
I blame the increase in reports of bus fires on the general availability of camera phones !
A simple text only report that "a bus caught fire at XYZ, there were no injuries" is not that interesting. If however a dramatic picture or even video is available then it is more newsworthy.

Indeed - in the olden days, before they sent round a reporter with a camera the bus was just a shell.

But the point I was making with the montages is that I have read so much of "electric [cars/buses] are. dangerous because of all that energy in a compact space" that I wanted to point out "anything with loads of stored energy is dangerous" and - and thanks for the confirmation - there are so many diesel bus fires.  Look at the stats and it probably turns out that electric buses for every million miles travelled burn less!


Title: Re: Bus fires
Post by: TonyK on June 27, 2024, 21:04:21

Indeed - in the olden days, before they sent round a reporter with a camera the bus was just a shell.

But the point I was making with the montages is that I have read so much of "electric [cars/buses] are. dangerous because of all that energy in a compact space" that I wanted to point out "anything with loads of stored energy is dangerous" and - and thanks for the confirmation - there are so many diesel bus fires.  Look at the stats and it probably turns out that electric buses for every million miles travelled burn less!

Absolutely correct. Diesel isn't particularly easy to set light to, but once a fire takes hold, it burns extremely well and isn't easy to extinguish. Buses are easy prey for the local arsonist, as a fire can be lit on the top deck, and the offender may well have disembarked before it is noticed. The body work and furniture seem to burn quite well too, strange in a modern era where home furnishings have to survive rigorous ignition tests. Rural buses also suffer from the lack of a secure home at night, and sometimes because someone objects strongly to having half a dozen 20-year-old buses parked down the road when not in use. Electric buses are almost all very new at present, and because of the need for charging tend to have a secure depot with the necessary equipment.

There's a point I hadn't spotted previously. There were three fires involving electric buses in the TfL area in January 2024. Reading the reports, it looks as though two of them were caused by electrical faults unconnected to the battery propulsion system. So if an air conditioning unit, wiper motor, heater or any component common to electric and diesel vehicles causes a fire in an electric bus, it will show as "yet another fire involving a battery vehicle" when in truth, it could have happened in any type and did not cause fire in the battery. I must watch out for a closer analysis.

Electric scooters and bikes get a bad press too, and fires involving them have led to loss of life. So far, though, I haven't read a report of such an incident involving what you might term a street-legal vehicle purchased from a reputable manufacturer, and used in accordance with the instructions. All the incidents I have seen so far, and I accept readily that there may be others, involve at least one part of the setup being other than the official part. A replacement battery or charger may look expensive from the manufacturer in comparison with something available from Temu, eBay, Facebook Marketplace, or any one of the many outlets for non-standard kit, but these come with no certification of safety. It's worth mentioning that the only eScooters that can be ridden on the roads are those in licensed hire schemes, yet the streets seem not to be short of others. I doubt very much that there are any knock-off electric buses on British streets as yet, but they are tarnished by association.


Title: Re: Bus fires
Post by: infoman on June 28, 2024, 02:34:23
Could the age of the bus's, and the maintenance be a factor as well?


Title: Re: Bus fires
Post by: TonyK on June 28, 2024, 20:38:40
Could the age of the bus's, and the maintenance be a factor as well?

Maintenance is certainly a factor. Given the condition of the many elderly buses around Taunton recently, I should say more so than age, just as with aircraft. The two that I learned to fly in are still very much in use, despite being over 50 years old, something that is definitely down to the rigorous maintenance regime. Commercial vehicles all have set routines for keeping fit which should ensure a useful life beyond that of a private car. Many are replaced for reasons of costs of running, brand awareness leading to new buses on prime routes and a cascade of the older stock to my area, or introduction of new regulations, and it won't be long before diesel buses are no longer produced for the UK market.

A look under the bonnet of a classic bus reveals very little, with therefore little opportunity for things to go badly wrong if looked after. Newer buses are more complex, which can add a certain degree of risk, but I think that by and large, that is reduced to a very low level by the quality of engineering. Any fault that makes a type or model of bus liable to spontaneous combustion would be disastrous for the manufacturer and operator alike. A new battery powered double deck bus can cost in the region of £500,000, and insurers will be keen to avoid paying for too many write-offs.



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