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Title: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: JayMac on July 21, 2010, 01:22:49 From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-10701953):
Quote Rail firms are being asked to simplify ticket machines after a study said passengers were being "defeated" by the "bewildering jargon" they faced. Customer watchdog Passenger Focus said some travellers preferred to queue to speak to ticket office staff, despite ticket machines standing empty. It said this meant waiting times at ticket offices often exceeded the five-minute guideline in peak hours. The train firms said most people were happy to use ticket machines. 'Incomplete information' Passenger Focus chief executive Anthony Smith said ticket machines were particularly daunting for passengers catching a train for the first time, or those "buying a different type of ticket from their normal ones." "This stress adds unnecessary pressure to buying a ticket," he added. However, many passengers who buy a particular ticket often, or use a familiar ticket machine, may have less trouble." Of the railway stations involved in the study it found that queues at ticket offices were worst in Guildford in Surrey, and Winchester and Basingstoke in Hampshire. At these stations, a third of queues were longer than the industry standard. "Ticket machines can present bewildering jargon, a barrage of information and choices, as well as incomplete information about ticket restrictions," added Mr Smith. 'Unrepresentative picture' A spokesman for the Association of Train Operating Companies pointed out that Passenger Focus's own figures showed last month that - from a survey of more than 30,000 rail users - seven out of 10 were satisfied with ticket-buying facilities at stations. "This suggests that most people use ticket machines with no problem whatsoever," he added. "They are there to cut queue times and make the process easier and faster for passengers." He added that Passenger Focus's latest research looked at queuing times at fewer than 1% of railway stations across Britain. "This gives a selective and unrepresentative picture of how long people have to queue at stations," said the spokesman. "Train companies are in the business of keeping their customers happy. They invest a huge amount of time and effort in improving the choice that people have at stations when it comes to buying tickets." Passenger Focus said it was now working with the train companies "to radically simplify what should be the straightforward process of getting a ticket [from a machine]". "Most important is clear information about when off-peak and super off-peak tickets are valid," added Mr Smith. Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: grahame on July 21, 2010, 07:17:07 From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-10701953): Quote A spokesman for the Association of Train Operating Companies pointed out that Passenger Focus's own figures showed last month that - from a survey of more than 30,000 rail users - seven out of 10 were satisfied with ticket-buying facilities at stations. "This suggests that most people use ticket machines with no problem whatsoever," he added. "They are there to cut queue times and make the process easier and faster for passengers." So 21,000 people said they were "satisfied" (not that facilities were "good" or "excellent", I note) and 9,000 were (it is implied) not satisfied. If there was an aspect of our business about which 9 customers were unhappy for every 21 who were happy, I would be making every effort to find a way to improve the experience for those 9 customers. I would certainly not be press-briefing "no problem whatsoever" conclusions because more (21) are happy than unhappy (9). Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: Bob_Blakey on July 21, 2010, 09:49:00 Having read through, albeit fairly quickly, the full PF report it came as no surprise that, in my opinion, the document was a mixture of perfectly valid suggestions/opinions and utter twaddle (e.g. I am not going to use TVM's because they will 'eat' my debit/credit card).
From recent personal experience (at Slough) I would suggest to the TOC's that they re-program the machines so that 'Anytime' tickets are not presented as an option when 'Off Peak' fares are valid, although I suspect removal of this valuable source of easy extra revenue would not be very popular with the bean-counters.. Within the 28% of dissatisfied passengers there are undoubtedly a very small number who should not be allowed out in public under any circumstances, but for the majority I am convinced that just changing the TVM screen display sequence would solve the problem. Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: Brucey on July 21, 2010, 09:56:22 This is the link to the full report: http://www.passengerfocus.org.uk/news-and-publications/document-search/document.asp?dsid=4237
Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: Tim on July 21, 2010, 11:15:50 The route of many of these problems was teh incompetant "ticket simplification".
I reckon I know more about ticketing than the avergae passenegr but last week I was confused over a simple journey.... 1, turned up at Bath station at 820 am on a Monday morning. 2, wanted to catch the 829 to Cardiff for a journey to Swansea. 3, Queques were too long at manned desks so I used a machine. 4, I expected to need to buy an anytime ticket as I assumed I was travelling in the peak and might be returning in the peak also. 5, The ticket options gave me an anytime single, but the only return was an "off peak return". I brought that but was skeptical. 6, The automatic gates were open but there was a member of staff (a gate supervisor) standing by them. I showed him my ticket as asked it if was valid. His reply, a very casual "you're fine" left me in doubt as to whether my ticket was valid or whether he was just being lenient 'cos he wasn't in ticket checking mode. On reflection, I expect that my ticket was what would have been called a saver return and that such tickets are valid on any train (ie there is no "peak" for that jounrey). But if my ticket was valid at any time then surely only a moron would decide to not to print "anytime" on the ticket. Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: Brucey on July 21, 2010, 11:51:54 On reflection, I expect that my ticket was what would have been called a saver return and that such tickets are valid on any train (ie there is no "peak" for that jounrey). But if my ticket was valid at any time then surely only a moron would decide to not to print "anytime" on the ticket. That ticket has restriction code 8A, which is thisQuote OUTWARD TRAVEL The only walk-up tickets are SDS (anytime single) and SVR (off peak return). The journey is priced by ATW.Valid on any train. Break of journey is not permitted except to change trains at an intermediate station or to access station facilities. RETURN TRAVEL Valid on any train. Split ticketing at CDF may be cheaper. Direct to Swansea: ^33.80 Bath to CDF (anytime return): ^20.30 CDF to Swansea (off peak return, restriction code 8A as above): ^11.10 Total ^31.40 Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: Tim on July 21, 2010, 11:57:19 thanks for the info. But if the ticket is "valid on any train" then why not print "anytime" on the ticket. This is stupid isn't it?
Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: eightf48544 on July 21, 2010, 12:19:35 I think Tim has summed up the situation rather well. It was the incompetant simplication that caused the trouble the changing of what were Day Returns, Savers and Super Savers into "off peak" has totally muddied the waters. Most people would think off peak after 09:30 and possible restrictions in the evening (which I think are totally stupid but that's another issue) would be right to be sceptical about being sold one for a journey starting at 08:29.
To add to the confusion when there are restrictions they are often at different times for each TOC and within a TOC on particular routes. I note also Passenger Focus refer to Super Off Peaks, what are these? Added to the fact that you can't read the screen on the machine at Taplow i always make a special run to the station to get my ticket from the station clerk to avoid using the machine. Particularly now it doesn't take cash. I don't agree with Bob that "The machine will eat my debit card" is not a valid fear. Whilst we think we know TVMs don't have a card retention mechanism, like a cash machine, there is always the nagging doubt it won't be able to read the card or in the worse case sceanario the card gets stuck in the machine. It is electronic after all and will break down eventually. The more complicated it is the the sooner it will break down. Add the fact it is difficult to buy (not collect) tickets in advance or Off Peak tickets before the first train where restricitons apply (see other posts for examples). It's no wonder 9 out of 30 people shun ticket machines. Also don't forget as Passenger Focus actually says some of the 21 who are satisfied use the same machine for the same journey on a frequent basis so are familiar with getting a ticket from the machine. However, as long as the TOCs continue with the current ludicrous fare system then the even the most competent programmer will find it immpossible to ensure that every passenger is sold the cheapest fare for the journey/s they wish to make. As illustarted by Brucey below for Tim's journey. Even ticket clerks don't get it right especially where legal splits are invovled. Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: JayMac on July 21, 2010, 12:21:07 On reflection, I expect that my ticket was what would have been called a saver return and that such tickets are valid on any train (ie there is no "peak" for that jounrey). But if my ticket was valid at any time then surely only a moron would decide to not to print "anytime" on the ticket. The only walk-up tickets are SDS (anytime single) and SVR (off peak return). The journey is priced by ATW.Split ticketing at CDF may be cheaper. Direct to Swansea: ^33.80 Bath to CDF (anytime return): ^20.30 CDF to Swansea (off peak return, restriction code 8A as above): ^11.10 Total ^31.40 ^29.90 if split at Newport. BTH-NWP SOR ^16.80 NWP-SWA SVR ^13.10 Cheaper still if you were returning same day.... but then you have to go back to splitting at Cardiff! Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: Btline on July 21, 2010, 12:30:38 I've started to Shun the machines - unless I know exactly what I want to buy (if this ticket is even on the machine).
I don't even use them to pick up pre-booked tickets anymore! Why? (a) The screen is useless, esp in cold weather (i.e. in the early morning when I am picking up the tickets for the long trip for the day!) (b) If I use the ticket office, I don't need to write down/print off that stupid code - I just put my card into the machine, and the staff print off the tickets! Only annoyance is that I have to sign for them! Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: grahame on July 21, 2010, 12:51:11 ... But if the ticket is "valid on any train" then why not print "anytime" on the ticket. .... Because it does not allow you to travel at "anytime". Go to Fishguard at 07:00 to catch a train to Carmarthen, to Swindon at 07:30 to catch a train to Melksham, or to Pilning at 08:00 to commute into Bristol :-\ Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: Phil on July 21, 2010, 14:02:14 So how close are we realistically to having Oyster-like technology on National Rail? Anyone know?
Touch in - touch out (or, swipe to open the barriers at either end) and the equipment automatically calculates the most advantageous rate for that particular journey at that particular time, less a discount for using the service. Couldn't be easier or more convenient. Anyone not wanting to use the service is welcome to queue at manned stations or buy a ticket on board, but hopefully the discounts offered by the card technology would mop up the majority of regular travellers fairly quickly. Wouldn't it? Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: Tim on July 21, 2010, 14:06:13 ... But if the ticket is "valid on any train" then why not print "anytime" on the ticket. .... Because it does not allow you to travel at "anytime". Go to Fishguard at 07:00 to catch a train to Carmarthen, to Swindon at 07:30 to catch a train to Melksham, or to Pilning at 08:00 to commute into Bristol :-\ Sorry Graham, I don't understand your comment. I assume that a Bath-Swansea return isn't valid via Fishguard Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: Brucey on July 21, 2010, 14:15:43 So how close are we realistically to having Oyster-like technology on National Rail? Anyone know? I believe South West Trains are getting there. The "touch in, touch out" readers have been in place on the platform at Cosham station since mid-2008. The TVMs also have a smart card reader. Barriered stations (e.g. Southampton Central and Havant) all have the Oyster-style readers on the ticket barriers.Touch in - touch out (or, swipe to open the barriers at either end) and the equipment automatically calculates the most advantageous rate for that particular journey at that particular time, less a discount for using the service. Couldn't be easier or more convenient. This technology won't work for people who either a) split tickets for their journey, or b) buy tickets for travelling further and cut their journey short (e.g. the Bristol - Cosham and Bristol - Havant off-peak returns). Unless you have get off the train to touch in and out again. Also, charging could be difficult where several fares with different routes are available. Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: JayMac on July 21, 2010, 14:22:31 ... But if the ticket is "valid on any train" then why not print "anytime" on the ticket. .... Because it does not allow you to travel at "anytime". Go to Fishguard at 07:00 to catch a train to Carmarthen, to Swindon at 07:30 to catch a train to Melksham, or to Pilning at 08:00 to commute into Bristol :-\ Sorry Graham, I don't understand your comment. I assume that a Bath-Swansea return isn't valid via Fishguard I believe Graham was pointing out that whilst you may hold an 'Anytime' ticket, there may not be an 'Anytime' service from certain locations. You certainly cannot travel by train anytime you want from the locations he mentioned! Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: Tim on July 21, 2010, 14:27:13 Thanks. My confusion.
Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: RailCornwall on July 21, 2010, 14:35:20 Said it before but it should be perfectly simple to put every ticket in the country on every machine, as per Switzerland. No excuse really, especially with technology as it is now. The engines already exist at the online providers so it's just a question of doing the customer interfaces right.
For clarity, yes I do mean being able to buy an offpeak return from Wick to Thurso from a machine in Cornwall and vice versa. Additionally it's absurd that Devon & Cornwall Railcard tickets can't be purchased from machines. Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: JayMac on July 21, 2010, 15:07:31 Most people would think off peak after 09:30..... In reality it appears quite rare for 0930 to be the starting point for 'Off Peak' fares. In an idle moment I looked at various destinations from Bristol Temple Meads and checked the Off Peak Return (SVR) and Off Peak Day Return (CDR) ticket validities for the outward journey. Bristol TM - Swansea (SVR) Anytime Bristol TM - Grateley (SVR) Anytime Bristol TM - Lancaster (SVR) depart after 0415 Bristol TM - Edinburgh (not London) (SVR) 0500 Bristol TM - Weymouth (route Yeovil PM) (CDR) 0700 Bristol TM - Preston (SVR) 0754 Bristol TM - Salisbury (SVR) 0810 Bristol TM - Yeovil PM (CDR) 0815 Bristol TM - Oxford (SVR) 0815 Bristol TM - Gloucester (CDR) 0830 Bristol TM - Exeter SD (SVR) 0833 Bristol TM - Birmingham Stns (SVR) 0930 Bristol TM - Weston SM (CDR) 0930 Bristol TM - London Paddington (Super Off Peak Return) 0945 Bristol TM - London Waterloo (route Salisbury) (CDR) arrive after 1000 Bristol TM - Peterborough (via London) (SVR) arrive at Paddington after 1005 Bristol TM - Ipswich (via London) (SVR) arrive at Paddington after 1010 ....and not to forget that anything to Reading, to or through London will also be subject to evening restrictions on the return journey. Some nice anomalies there (no surprise!). You can travel to Salisbury on a SVR after 0810, but buy your ticket to Grateley (the next station) for a couple of quid more and you can leave Bristol on the 0544. Going to Preston you can leave on the 0800 change at Brum with a SVR, but going next stop Lancaster you can leave on the 0627 change at Brum. Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: grahame on July 21, 2010, 15:44:50 I believe Graham was pointing out that whilst you may hold an 'Anytime' ticket, there may not be an 'Anytime' service from certain locations. You certainly cannot travel by train anytime you want from the locations he mentioned! Indeed I was - I think that if "anytime" were printed on a ticket, then it would imply that the service on offer was sufficiently frequent for you to turn up at the station and get on a train with only a reasonable wait. Quite happy for tickets to say "anytime" between Reading and London, for example. But not for Finstock to Oxford ;) P.S. "Any train" would be more acceptable. Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: readytostart on July 21, 2010, 17:57:14 thanks for the info. But if the ticket is "valid on any train" then why not print "anytime" on the ticket. This is stupid isn't it? Because the terms are not the same as an anytime ticket, which would allow break of journey for other than connectional purposes and in the case of a return would allow the outward portion to be used to complete the journey over five days. So for example an Anytime return from say Edinburgh to London could be used by someone with day meetings in Newcastle, York, Birmingham and High Wycombe with overnight stops at each location. Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: Btline on July 21, 2010, 18:20:08 Because the terms are not the same as an anytime ticket, which would allow break of journey for other than connectional purposes and in the case of a return would allow the outward portion to be used to complete the journey over five days. So for example an Anytime return from say Edinburgh to London could be used by someone with day meetings in Newcastle, York, Birmingham and High Wycombe with overnight stops at each location. How many people know about this? I thought I was "savvy" knowing that outward portions of Anytime tickets were valid for 5 days - but I had no idea so many breaks of journey were available! :o Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: paul7575 on July 21, 2010, 20:12:30 So how close are we realistically to having Oyster-like technology on National Rail? Anyone know? Touch in - touch out (or, swipe to open the barriers at either end) and the equipment automatically calculates the most advantageous rate for that particular journey at that particular time, less a discount for using the service. Couldn't be easier or more convenient. SWT's card does not provide prepay (stored payment) system, it is seasons only; and I cant see it ever working like Oyster PAYG on the main national network. It's important to realise that Oyster PAYG works in a well defined area which is predominantly barriered, with only minimal ticket types available, all singles, one class, and there are no period returns for instance. The key to PAYG's relative simplicity is that it can deduct a maximum cash fare on entry (equivalent to a sort of deposit), and refund as appropriate on exit. For a similar system on NR, where distances and therefore costs can be pretty significant, the preloaded balance would have to be significantly higher, or failing that you'd need to have a system that could talk to your bank account. Just try and work out how a putative national system would charge someone who touched in but didn't touched out at their destination? What charge should now be made? Paul Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: paul7575 on July 21, 2010, 20:14:46 Said it before but it should be perfectly simple to put every ticket in the country on every machine, as per Switzerland. No excuse really, especially with technology as it is now. Except for the new opportunites for fraud, which is why they won't do it here, whatever happens in Switzerland. Paul Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: readytostart on July 21, 2010, 20:19:08 Slightly off topic, what is annoying is predominantly in the old NSE region it's possible to buy an SDR or an SVR but not an SOR, meaning that those who buy a period return in good faith are charged for a single ticket if they choose to travel back in the peak on a different day.
For the record what I usually do is calculate the cost of two singles which is what should have been charged and then take away the price of the SVR and sell an excess for that amount but I imagine I am in the minority and would probably get a good spudding if the boss found out. (For those XCbaiters in here, see we're not all evil) Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: RailCornwall on July 21, 2010, 20:31:51 PAYG is perfectly possible, with the same system as per London, Entry being when a ticket is obtained from either a machine or on train ticket machine with funds being drawn from a prepay amount stored on the card. If a top up of these funds is required loading from a pre registered bank or credit card would be simple, by giving the customer the pin pad onboard, or keying at a station based machine, and top up is done there and then.
The ticket loaded onto the card being available for inspection or gate exit as required. Pre purchased tickets being available to collect from platform equipment at designated stations. Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: paul7575 on July 21, 2010, 20:59:43 That isn't PAYG though, it's just buying a ticket from a machine or onboard, and storing it on a plastic card. True PAYG is what was suggested earlier, where the fare isn't worked out until the end of the journey. There's a subtle difference, AFAICS...
Paul Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: paul7575 on July 21, 2010, 21:05:13 Slightly off topic, what is annoying is predominantly in the old NSE region it's possible to buy an SDR or an SVR but not an SOR, meaning that those who buy a period return in good faith are charged for a single ticket if they choose to travel back in the peak on a different day. It's predominantly mileage based isn't it? SORs are available for journeys over about 40 miles, which I guess was some arbritary commuting boundary at some time in the past. Certainly on the SWML, the boundary (as far as London fares are concerned) was Fleet when I checked a few months ago. Paul Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: onthecushions on July 22, 2010, 00:14:27 Jargon is a necessity to any specialism in life, be it Mathematics, Theology or railway travel. What is needed is easy access to explanation of the main terms relevant to customers. For instance, off-peak means travel after 0930 in some areas, arrival in London after 1000 in others, with NC travel after 1000 and now a super off-peak (all good ideas if clearly defined, IMHO). Even the machines can't really cope and will sometimes sell me an invalid ticket (e.g. with some railcards). Penalty fares should therefore be applied with care. My favourites include the "non off-peak Network single" and the "cheap(?) day return". I had a spat recently asking for a ticket via Staines to be told that I should say "route Staines" as via meant a change of train. My booking office Latin tutorial on the meaning of via fell on deaf ears... Quite the worst feature of paying by card at the blue machines is the silly positioning of the card display. A normal height adult cannot see this without bending down uncomfortably, the card display is poorly lit and the keys are not shielded from the crowds around. Why don't managers try kit before they buy to see whether it's usable? OTC Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: Chris from Nailsea on July 22, 2010, 00:43:24 Quite the worst feature of paying by card at the blue machines is the silly positioning of the card display. A normal height adult cannot see this without bending down uncomfortably, the card display is poorly lit and the keys are not shielded from the crowds around. Why don't managers try kit before they buy to see whether it's usable? Absolutely right, OTC! The Scheidt & Bachmann TVMs do suffer from that very basic design fault, I think. Was that unsatisfactory intermediate height for the card display / keypad perhaps decided upon, as a mere 'nod' towards wheelchair users under DDA, thus avoiding the preferable option of installing two sensibly placed alternatives, for both wheelchair and non-wheelchair users? Cynical? Me?? ::) Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: willc on July 22, 2010, 00:47:02 Additionally it's absurd that Devon & Cornwall Railcard tickets can't be purchased from machines. In which case I would suggest you get FGW local management to do something about it. When TVMs first arrived in Oxfordshire, they would not offer Cotswold Line Railcard fares, but after persistent complaints by passengers at Charlbury and Hanborough, they were reprogrammed, along with the machines at Oxford - I assume the same also applies at the relevant Worcestershire stations - so someone, somewhere in FGW knows what to do about local railcards. Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: Chris from Nailsea on July 22, 2010, 00:49:27 Any idea why the TVMs won't / don't / can't sell Group Saves, on the same basis?
Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: Tim on July 22, 2010, 09:12:34 Said it before but it should be perfectly simple to put every ticket in the country on every machine, as per Switzerland. No excuse really, especially with technology as it is now. Except for the new opportunites for fraud, which is why they won't do it here, whatever happens in Switzerland. Paul But you can collect any ticket from a machine if you book on line. I expect that the TOCs are more concerned with legitimate re-booking than fraud. Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: Tim on July 22, 2010, 09:17:22 thanks for the info. But if the ticket is "valid on any train" then why not print "anytime" on the ticket. This is stupid isn't it? Because the terms are not the same as an anytime ticket, which would allow break of journey for other than connectional purposes and in the case of a return would allow the outward portion to be used to complete the journey over five days. So for example an Anytime return from say Edinburgh to London could be used by someone with day meetings in Newcastle, York, Birmingham and High Wycombe with overnight stops at each location. But if we had really had ticket simplification terms like this would be aligned or printed in the ticket itself (ie, "valid any train, no breaks of journey", or "valid after 8:45, no break on outward journey" etc). At least terms like "saver" where ambigious. A term like "off-peak" on the face of it is misleading in that they give the impression of being clear but gloss over the complexity which is still there. Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: eightf48544 on July 22, 2010, 10:19:53 Any idea why the TVMs won't / don't / can't sell Group Saves, on the same basis? Here here. Must be possible. Not sure I understand Paul's comment about more oportunities for Fraud if TVMs sell all tickets between all destinations. Surely whatever the TVM sells it is still up to the TOC to have onboard train checks. Even if it's only to catch out the "proverbial little old lady on an advanced ticket holder on the wrong train". Presumably you mean it would be difficult to catch those that buy a ticket from Stapelton Road to BRI at Avonmouth. I see no reason why Oyster type technology (with an ITSO card) couldn't be introdcued around other cities such as Bristol but you need zonal fares and for the card to be valid on both buses and trains. You can work it like Oyster so that you pay only a "Day Travelcard" rate once you've made sufficient journeys. It works extremely well in Germany. You can even buy group rovers from the machines. It does mean basically a flat fare system with no Peak nonsence. Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: Tim on July 22, 2010, 11:56:15 Not sure I understand Paul's comment about more oportunities for Fraud if TVMs sell all tickets between all destinations. Dumbelling. But not a good enough excuse IMHO Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: Henry on July 22, 2010, 12:24:25 Reading the comments, even us seasoned traveller's have problems. I agree, I would sooner look at a face when buying a ticket at Totnes - (even if it is Nathan). Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: JayMac on July 22, 2010, 13:48:08 Depending on the orientation of the TVM, you often get to look at a face - you're own!
When the sun is shining on the screen all you can make out is your own reflection; unless you do a shadow dance or hold your jacket open like you're pretending to be Batman. ;) Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: eightf48544 on July 23, 2010, 09:10:51 Quote from: Tim link=topic=7182.msg71673#msg71673 Dumbelling ?????? Edited to disentagle quotes Title: Re: Rail passengers 'shun confusing ticket machines' (BBC News 20/07/2010) Post by: JayMac on July 23, 2010, 09:27:04 'Dumbelling' is buying two short journey tickets for each end of a longer journey.
As an example, you are making a journey from A to Z but only buy tickets from A to B and Y to Z. Oh, and can you clean up your previous post, eightf? This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |