Great Western Coffee Shop

versus another

ill give more details later

...... tease!  ;) ;D

no not and if the TM who worked the train in question is on here then they would identify the situation

I was just wondering how one persons rights becomes more important than anothers

The only scenario I can imagine is where the TM judges the safety or wellbeing of the majority is being jeopardised by the actions of a particular individual, and puts the demands of that individual before the wishes of others.

As an example, allowing a particularly obstreperous, loud deaf old person who is sounding off about their perceived "rights" to keep their outsized shopping-trolley-cum-zimmerframe beside their seat despite it causing a massive obstruction to everyone else.

I'm sure the professionals amongst us can think of many more valid reasons than that however.

 I suppose most TM's are only human after all, like the rest of us.

 We all have individual priorities, perceptions - so what you might find annoying and start 'chucking toys out the pram'
 others may find trivial.
 No doubt TM's have rules and guidelines to follow, but I suppose it's up to each individual how they apply them.

 What I will say on some of the routes I use, I certainly miss some of the 'characters' who have recently retired.

This isn't an attempt to reopen the "who deserves tables the most" debate is it?

Simplw answer (although it is never simple) would be to ry to balance it so that as many people benefit and as few people lose out as possible

TM ought to put safety first (applied with common sense) and then enforce the law on tickets etc (applied with discretion).

But if passenger behaviour is safe and legal then is it too much to expect the conflicting passnegr needs to be resolved between the passengers without recourse to the TM.  He isn't a nanny after all.

Nothing to do with tables......

In fact was on a 143, trying to pick up about 8 voice messsages and finish some work in the 14 minute journey and some woman would not even attempt to quieten her screaming offspring.  I wouldnt mind if she was trying to get it to be quiet, but she wasnt.  When I asked her I got told it was just a baby being a baby.

Asked the TM if he could do anything about the noise pollution and he ignored me.

Ended up a bitch fight where I said things to her that were out of order, she said things to me then lamped me one with a viscious right hook that left me with concussion.

Sadly, I think the TM took her side since he was telling me to stop shouting (of course I had to shout to be heard over the sprog).

Anyway, I got off and then woke up this morning with concussion

Note:  You know how some people really hate noises other people don't mind - nails on a black board springs to mind

For me:

Metal spades against concrete make my skin crawl

And the pitch of a baby crying usually triggers a migraine

Thats why I react so badly to squealing babies (Especially when the available space is taken up by non folding 4x4s of the pram world)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma)

Believe it or not I've had to deal with a similar situation as a conductor on a heritage railway before now. A party without children took exception to the behaviour of children belonging to a different group in the same car. Evidently words were exchanged which became increasingly heated, to the point that a worried passenger came and sought me out. By the time I got there the two self-appointed alpha males from the respective parties were squaring up to each other in the gangway.

I ended up physically standing in between these two clowns to stop them thumping each other whilst telling them both (in a more or less diplomatic way, I forget the exact words) that they and everyone else on that train were there trying to have a nice day out and perhaps it would be nice if they tried to behave in a civilized manner. I think I ended up asking both groups to move to different parts of the train so that it didn't appear like I'd favoured one side over the other, also hopefully making neither side think that they had lost face when the other side hadn't.

I have to say that I don't think any conductor is going to want to take sides in a situation like you describe - there was right (and wrong, it must be said) on both sides and asking them to arbitrate puts them in an absolutely impossible position.

On a more sympathetic note though, I think the 143 fleet is fitted with CCTV so if events were as you describe and you were assaulted by the other passenger, you may want to report the incident to the Transport Police, giving details of the date and time of the train service. And if you haven't already done so and do wish to pursue that course, you might be well advised to get a doctor's report of the injury.

Not going to pursue it, I was out of order as well - never denied it...

Its just I was the one told to move to a different part of the train (mainly because the chelsea 4x4 pram could not get through)


I just can't understand what is wrong with asking someone to at least TRY to get their child to shut up

Because to their mind, rightly or wrongly, that means that you're criticizing their skills as a parent by telling them how to manage their own child.

I dont care how parents bring or drag their children up until their choices impact on me.

Seems to be a non PC view these days

Safety of the train is most important...but if i get a request that someone is making too much noise and i consider that request to be of a reasonable nature the offender would be politely told...........anyway F/A its a wonder you can hear to do anything which resembles work on a 143 and i bet you were dreaming it was a turbo as well{ only joking}

 You are fortunate that it wasn't concussion, believe me if it was you would not of remembered the incident.
 
 As a parent I can sympathise with both of you.
 There is probably no worse noise that a screaming baby, although perhaps the screaming wheels of a 143 must come a close second. Mother is probably stressed out trying to keep baby quiet, as much as you are trying to answer your life changing
 messages.

 There are times when it is just better to switch on the i-pod full blast, close eyes and detatch yourself from what is going on around you - you cannot be in control all the time.

Do I remember you admitting somewhere that you drive a real 4x4 on the road?

It was - I got it checked out.

Was ok the same night but woke up with double vision, a blinding headache and outrageous nausea.  Also, have an almighty egg right behind my left ear.

Was like a hangover without the prior benefit of being drunk.

Ha...if you follow this guy (subscription necessary) he'll change your life!

www.barefootdoctorworld.com

Or there are some good books out there by the fella...search your best independent bookshop. I can assure you, read the book(s), follow the advice and you will be a calmer and better person.

I am not on commission...it just works for me. 8)

Yes - but that needs to be put into context of (1) where I lived and (2) I run a company so its tax efficient to do so

Er,

1) you live in England, not the jungle
2) the fact that it is tax efficient just makes it worse (ie, you are being undertaxed compared with other tax payers)

if you want the freedom to drive a 4x4 car (and I wouldn't seek to deny anyone that freedom) it is a bit rich to deny someone else the freedom to have a 4x4 pram.

Personally, I'd rather parents pushed a large pram on public transport than put it and their kids in yet another 4x4 car on the road.

I'd rather spend 14 minutes on a train with a screaming child than 14 minutes on a train with someone who is "out of order" by which I assume you mean unnecesarily agressive.  The first is anoying the second frightening.

Sorry, but I side with the TM.

To be honest, the age of the child could also make a huge difference as a very young child or a teething child would likely scream as regardless of comfort they will cry regardless. Looking after children and stopping them from crying is far from easy.

On the 4x4 note, I as well as many others are believers that to own one is pure vanity unless there is a genuine need for it (living in teh country for example). You could easily of had a different car as opposed to a 4x4 if you really wanted to avoid tax that is less wasteful with fuel and takes up far less roadspace

I bought my 4x4 when I did genuinely need it

there were numerous days this year where my local roads were impassable to non 4x4.  I have spent - in the last 4 years, several days towing front wheel drive vehicles up the hill so they can get home.

If I lived where I do at the moment, I would not have considered a 4x4 but as I needed one at the time, getting it efficiently through the company made sense

However - should I sell a vehicle I now own outright having paid for it over 4 years and lose money to get a new one I don't need just because I moved?

And yes, I was out of order, I can't remember what I said outright but I do know it probably wished pain and suffering on her and her off spring however I never threatened violence or got in her face  She lamped me when I got my suitcase from under the wheels of her 4x4 pram.

and I admit I was out of order!

The issue was 0 she was not trying ANYTHING to get it to shut up.  Almost as though she was used to is so everyone else had to suffer it

Jeez FA...sort your self out...go back to my post, change your attitude to people and life...sorry but for your own sanity, or stress will get you. Anyway why do you post this stuff on here?

Why?

Because I am one of the non PC minorities who do not think children should have any more rights than another passenger...and  I get increasingly frustrated that some brat who has not paid for a ticket at all but takes up valuable space in a pram get more rights than I do

However this is not all I post about - its just one of my bug bears

Evidently.

Sorryto say it, but the way I see it is that FA considers herself to have more rights than anybody else. Children don't have to be quiet so doesn't suprise me the conductor ignored you.

Not the first time you have got into a ding dong with a mother with a baby and pushchair is it? I was reading another thread on here where you were giving it the big I am because a pushchair was in your way!




Edit note: I have amended railwayfan's quote marks, purely in the interests of clarity: see following post. Chris.

Err...what sre you sying railway fan? ???

FA, tbh you are a complete and utter fruitcake and the unfortunte thing is that over half of the poulation are in a simlar mental state.

Shame that the (fully deserved) whack you got didnt knock any sense into you....

Deep breath please ladies and gentlemen.

This is a warning shot to remind all of you that, as is stated in the forum agreement, personal attacks on other members are not acceptable. I'm not going to single anyone out but it should be obvious which posts I'm referring to: there are a few posts above, by more than one member, that I would consider to fall into the category of personal abuse.

Let's try and keep the tone of this thread polite and civilized please. Please be aware that the moderator/admin team are keeping a close eye on this thread to make sure it does not get (any further) out of hand.

Thanks for your attention.

Dammit - was going to ask what he meant by half the population being a fruitcake?  Does he mean all women?  In which case I'm sure Jo would have words to say

So quick to assume!!!!!

Some of the tone in this topic has actually rather surprised me.

I agree noisy kids is a fact of life and it happens, but in FA's case where the mother was making no attempt to stop the kid from crying seems pretty poor.

If was a genuine reason like teething, then surely that's all the woman needed to say - and it would be a bit more understandable.

Both did wrong, it's just a shame it got to where it did.

That was the point.  Was sitting in the pram wailing whilst the mother was amusing herself.

Contract this to a journey I took yesterday........

16XX from new street to bristol - cant remember the exact time.  Was a five car vomiter with one FC.  Woman got in with two children wanting to upgrade.  Would not even sit down until the TM said it was ok - despite me and others assuring her she could.  There was no table available so I volunteered mine.

The children were children but the mom took steps to ensure they were as well behaved as two small children could be.  Squealing was met with "we'll be thrown out of here if you make that noise and have to sit in the busy place down there".  They were children but I had no issue sharing - even though I had to convince her it was ok as she didnt want to disturb me working.

I seriously doubt that mother would have let her child wail without at least some effort to quiet it or not offer some explanation which anyone would accept.

The issue I have is SOME parents thinking that breeding gives them more rights than anyone.  The two incidents in question were:

1. The issue aforementioned

2. When the woman with the pram positioned it between G and the micro buffet thereby preventing anyone including the customer host getting back to the micro buffet.  The pram was too large to fit through the slidy door into SC (or even FC).  She seemed to think since that was the only place she could stand she could prevent 2 carriages of the train getting anything from the buffet. 

And note - I never even considered putting in a complaint since I know I was wrong as well.

I could have been alot ruder.

And no, i didnt mean women in general, i just meant the portion of the general population who are completly and totally dilusional in one way or another, similar to yourself.

Indeed you could - but I'm glad that you weren't, in the interests of maintaining the generally polite and non-personal tone of this forum.