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Terror arrest threat for rail passenger who took photos on train to prove overcrowding

A rail passenger who took photographs of an overcrowded train carriage was threatened with arrest under anti-terror laws.

Nigel Roberts, 41, was so appalled by the cramped conditions commuters have to endure he warned a ticket inspector that dangerous overcrowding could cost lives. But when the IT worker showed his mobile phone photos of luggage-crammed aisles and exits he was told it is 'illegal' to take such pictures and threatened with prosecution. The inspector then demanded Mr Roberts' personal details.

Mr Roberts' traumatic journey began when he joined South West Trains' Weymouth to London service at Southampton. As soon as he boarded the train he saw the carriages were full of piled-up suitcases, bags and backpacks. Even the overhead racks were stuffed with heavy luggage - and vital passageways to the doors were also blocked.

'The train was full of passengers who had got off cruise liners and aircraft at Southampton who obviously all had luggage,' Mr Roberts said. 'But it was a disaster waiting to happen - conditions on the train were unsafe and in an emergency people would not have been able to get out. I saw one elderly couple in their 70's desperately calling for help from station staff because they were unable to get out at their stop in time because the aisle was blocked. And if the train had to make an emergency stop a 20kg medium-size suitcase travelling at 50mph would probably decapitate any passenger it hits - it would almost certainly kill them. A passenger announcement on the train invited us to raise any concerns with the ticket inspector, which I did because it was not the first time I had seen the problem first-hand on that route. I told him I was going to make a complaint to the Office of Rail Regulation because conditions on the train were unsafe.'

Mr Roberts added: 'But when I told him I had taken some photos he said it was illegal under the Terrorism Act and that I could be arrested and demanded my name and address. He said there were police officers on the train and I may be arrested for taking the photographs. He said he had powers given to him under the Railways Act to ask me for the information and it was an even more serious offence for me not to comply. I felt as if I was in a police state. He explained that for some reason it was for my own protection but my argument was that every passenger on the train would have needed protection in the event of an emergency. He told me he would make a note of our conversation so that they could be used in the event of a prosecution. He was pleasant enough but it was a frightening and chilling experience for me.'

Mr Roberts, who lives on Alderney in the Channel Islands, claimed he was told that newer South West Trains often didn't have enough luggage space because operators wanted carriages that could hold more fare-paying people than baggage.

He said: 'I have asked the rail company for an explanation but they haven't replied. It appears to be a serious and institutional breach of their duty of care towards their passengers.'

A spokeswoman for South West Trains - owned by the Stagecoach group - said today: 'Staff are aware they need to be particularly attentive to unusual photos being taken or suspicious behaviour and to challenge this if necessary. However this was clearly not an issue in this case and we will ensure our staff are re-briefed to avoid any misunderstanding in the future. We are sorry for any upset and anxiety caused to Mr Roberts. We need to strike a balance between seating, room for luggage as well as provide toilets and we do as much as we can to provide luggage room within the constraints of available space. But we understand there can be pressure on space at busy times and we ask for the co-operation of our customers in not compromising safety by blocking the aisles with luggage.

Brucey im pretty sure that failing to provide the police with your details is obstruction

It's up to you whether you provide your name and address. You don't have to, but the best advice is that you should co-operate with the police.

Mr Roberts' traumatic journey began when he joined South West Trains' Weymouth to London service at Southampton.

Climbdown over train 'terror' pics threat

A rail firm has been forced into an embarrassing climbdown - and to make an apology - after a passenger was told he faced arrest under anti-terror laws for taking pictures on a train.

Nigel Roberts, 41, had taken photographs with his mobile phone on a Weymouth to London train to highlight what he saw as overcrowding and potential danger caused by heavy luggage in the aisles. Roberts claimed that, in an emergency, passengers would not have been able to get out of the train and he raised his concerns with a ticket inspector, showing him the pictures he had taken.

However, the inspector said Roberts risked being arrested under anti-terrorism legislation and threatened to call police. The guard told Roberts that, under the Terrorism Act, he was not allowed to take pictures on any trains.

'But this is not the case,' a South West Trains spokeswoman told Amateur Photographer. 'This was clearly a misunderstanding. These pictures were not a threat to the public. As far as we are concerned, people can take pictures on our trains.'

South West Trains admitted that the train had been crowded with people, who had been on a cruise, returning from Southampton. The spokeswoman said the train company has now issued a written apology to Roberts.

And just a thought that didn't occur to me yesterday, but how is there always a distressed elderly couple involved in every incident like this reported to the press? Do you think they're professionals who tour the country seeking out overcrowded trains to look upset about?!

Because they find reason to moan about the slightest thing, of course it is normally caused by young people!

And just a thought that didn't occur to me yesterday, but how is there always a distressed elderly couple involved in every incident like this reported to the press? Do you think they're professionals who tour the country seeking out overcrowded trains to look upset about?!

Sadly incidents like this gives the railway a bad name in the eyes of the public.

If the bloke thought it was unsafe then why oh why did he put himself in a position of what he considered danger by getting on the train? If he REALLY thought it was unsafe he wouldn't have got on!

Maybe he had an Advance ticket.

GRAVESEND: Commuter detained for taking photos

A commuter has been left ^angry and intimidated^ after being detained at a railway station for taking photos.

Olly Cromwell, an IT worker from Streatham, was ordered off his Southeastern train at Gravesend by Rail Enforcement Officers (REO) after taking photos of them on his mobile phone. Mr Cromwell, who wanted to use the photos for his blog, took them whilst waiting with his wife on the platform, as well as one on the train. The father-of-one said: ^I had heard a lot about how REOs abuse their power and wanted the pictures in case I ever wrote a blog about them in the future.^ Mr Cromwell told News Shopper two of the officers asked to see his photos and when he refused, used the Terrorism Act as a reason to ask him to delete them. After telling the officers they had no authority to enforce it, Mr Cromwell claims they demanded he get off the train and would relay his description to the police for arrest if he refused.

The 36-year-old said: ^I was pretty angry with them and intimidated. The fact that private companies and their employees think they have the right to carry out actions like this and intimidate customers is very scary indeed.^

After being taken off the train, Mr Cromwell was taken to Dartford rail station where he claims he had to wait against his will on the platform for the British Transport Police (BTP).

A spokesman for the BTP said: ^BTP were called to Dartford rail station after staff reported a man taking photographs. After attending and speaking with the man, officers concluded that no offences had been committed and he was allowed to go on his way. The power to stop members of the public under the Terrorism Act resides only with police officers and with police community support officers when accompanied by a police officer, and only when that power is authorised by an officer ranking Assistant Chief Constable or above."

Mr Cromwell told News Shopper he hopes his story will help people know their rights.

He said: ^I aim to educate not only the average person on the street, but the company and it's employees too about what commuters are allowed to do.^

A spokesman for Southeastern trains said the public are free to take photos of their trains and stations but should ask permission before taking photos of employees. He said: ^If any of our employees, including REOs, are likely to feature in photographs as individuals, we'd appreciate as a common courtesy, the photographer asking for their permission whenever possible. Photographers should only go onto areas that are open to the general public and don't cause an obstruction to passengers or staff. Permission should be sought for any photographs taken of our trains and property for publication purposes."

A spokesman for the BTP said the public has the right to take photographs and film in public places.

He said: ^Taking photographs is not normally cause for suspicion and there are no powers prohibiting the taking of photographs, film or digital images in a public place.^

A spokesman for the BTP said: ^BTP were called to Dartford rail station after staff reported a man taking photographs. After attending and speaking with the man, officers concluded that no offences had been committed and he was allowed to go on his way. The power to stop members of the public under the Terrorism Act resides only with police officers and with police community support officers when accompanied by a police officer, and only when that power is authorised by an officer ranking Assistant Chief Constable or above."

This line always gets me, now I know there are times when trains are packed to the gunnels and you literally can't squeeze anyone else in but generally nowhere near as bad as a tube train at rush hour. A disaster waiting to happen and unsafe?, yet he still decided to travel on that train.

The secret blogger, who refers to himself as 'Olly Cromwell' and wears a pigs mask at protests to conceal his idenity, was ordered off his Southeastern train at Gravesend by Rail Enforcement Officers (REO) after taking photos of them on his mobile phone.

... but I don't see the relevance to the story described since I don't think the pig mask had anything to do with it.