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Just received, from my FGW text alerts:

I've just had that one, too. Obviously my service provider took a bit longer to send it out. Not often I get one at all though so it must be fairly serious

I have received a text at 15:34 from FGW alerts. So it was a cable theft that caused the signalling problems at West Drayton. On the FGW website it also states the problem is caused by vandalism.

So 2 reasons:-

Signalling problems
Vandalism

All this caused by a person who stole a cable thinking it may be fun, not for the passengers who are travelling on the trains it is not. Where could they have stole the cable from?

the following is currently displayed on the FGW website

From FGW live updates (http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/LiveUpdateList.aspx) page:


My emphasis in bold.  I won't quote all the individual services that are affected, obviously.

I just got home, I caught the 15:27 from Padd called at Ealing Broadway, Hayes and then it was all stations to Oxford (and it was a 166  >:(  )

There seemed to be very few trains going west nothing on DM over took us on the DR trains east are mostly on the DR.

The drive did say the delays were due to vandalism in the West Drayton area and there were a number of Police cars in the area of the Uxbridge / Stains branch.

When I left Maidenhead on the 16:38 Marlow the station staff were announcing a lot of canceled trains, might be because FGW / NR are trying to get trains in the right places for tonights rush

I have just visited the National Rail Enquiries website and it says a signalling problem resulting from vandalism is causing disruption at Iver. This is extending journey times of up to 90 minutes between London Paddington and Reading. These delays are expected to last until approximately 22:00. FGW are running a reduced service on some routes. FGW ticket holders may travel with Chiltern Railways, South West Trains, CrossCountry services between Reading and Basingstoke and London Underground on any reasonable route.

Just got back off the 15:57 out of Paddington. It was absolutely heaving, again nothing overtook us on the DM, the UM west of Langley was full up with parked HSTs, and judging by the amount of people window hanging, they had been there some time.

Live Departure Boards has most if not all of the thames valley fasts cancelled, and a 30 minute interval stopping service. All of the fast to Maidenhead or Twyfords are cancelled. I'm glad I'm home- it's just going to be horrendous at Paddington tonight.

I have been sent a email at 15:31 from FGW. The email states:-

Dear Sir or Madam:

Due to the theft of signalling cable at West Drayton, an extremely limited train service is able to operate between London Paddington and Reading.

Network Rails Engineering Team are working as hard as possible to resolve this issue, but due to the amount of cable removed, disruption is likely to continue until 2200 this evening.

If you are planning on travelling today, we strongly advise that you check www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk for further information.

Whilst we will make every effort to operate the advertised train service, we do strongly recommend that you leave extra time for your journey.

We apologise for any potential disruption to your journey.

First Great Western
www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk

Just checked Live Depature Boards again- unless I'm mistaken the 18:12 to Henley is the ONLY train for an hour and a half that will go to Maidenhead.

90ft if anyone is wondering!!

Been told that the problem was reported before lunch time!

How does someone manage to steal 90ft of cable in the middle of the day without being noticed?  Surely trains passed during that time!   ???

Well that was an absolutely shockingly bad journey home..

I got to Paddington at about half six.. 18.36 was cancelled even though it wasn't at the point I left work.. But not unexpected in the circumstances.. Shortly after the delayed 17.50 was announced on platform 1, first stop Maidenhead.. We all got on... At some point I think it changed to being the 18.22 but still stopping at Maidenhead (fortunately)... Eventually we left.. It was packed to the point that no more people could get on..

Between Hayes and West Drayton we stopped. For about 25 minutes.. Not ONE single announcement the whole time we were there or for the rest of the journey for that matter.. That is outrageous.. I also think, since so few trains had run (we were only the 2nd to leave Paddington) that maybe stop the train at a station not in the middle of nowhere.. Two people got ill in my small area of the train so goodness knows what the rest of the train was like..

I am not best pleased.. These things happen but it was made so much worse by no annoucements and just stopping a packed train in the middle of nowehere.. I will be complaining.. and then will sit back and wait for a standard reply about why the train was delayed rather than my points about how much worse it was made..

On top of my hour and a half delay yesterday it's not turning out to be a good week.. :(

Erm ... large glass of white wine, Jo?  :P

Very sorry to hear about your two consecutive nightmare journeys home.  :o

hhmm now if only they'd have thought to have handed out free wine from the buffet when we were stopped... That would have helped  :D

Seriously though water or other soft drinks would have helped I think.. The good thing was that it was a pretty much good natured atmosphere on the train with people trying to make other people to take their seats once we'd been stopped for a while as all the sitting down people were feeling very guilty..

Jo were announcements being done regularly whilst you were waiting at Paddington?

BBC Report: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/10398387.stm

BBC report it as 300ft of cable stolen, I don't know which is right to be honest..

Erm: is there possible confusion over 90ft or 90m?


(By the way, I'm not suggesting that anyone here, or at the BBC, doesn't know the difference - it just might have been written down wrong somewhere!)

I can only assume, what I read said 90ft. Will try and get a definite answer tomorrow, don't know how successful I will be mind..

Well, as Rick questioned earlier: how does someone apparently manage to nick 90 feet of copper cable, never mind 90 metres of it, in broad daylight, without being spotted??  :o

Hi Ollie. I was probably only on the concourse at Paddington for five minutes before the 17.50 was announced.. So I didn't hear much but I did hear an announcement about Chiltern Railways/SWT taking tickets and what the problem was... I think they were most likely doing a good announcing job there..

We did sit there on the train for a further 20 minutes or so before we left but obviously couldn't hear outside announcements and certainly weren't  priveleged enough to get any on the train.. :)

Much confusion at Oxford - someone really should have switched off the screens, or taken over manual control, as what was being shown seemed to bear little relation to what was going on.

I arrived at platform 2 to see an HST with London window labels sitting in platform 1, which was then announced as the service to Worcester Shrub Hill, made my way over, where screens said the next departure was for London but the platform staff said no, definitely for Worcester, and an announcement was eventually made on board to that effect and the screens altered to say it was the 18.54 departure. I don't know whether the set had come from Reading or was turned back at Oxford.

We actually left at 18.51, to clear the platform for a Reading-bound Voyager. Lots of Turbos parked in the sidings as we passed. We made an extra stop at Hanborough, where a good few people got off, and it was also going to call at Honeybourne in addition to the usual stops by the 17.50 ex-PAD, so full marks to whoever made that decision.

A colleague's husband works in London and he was planning to go by Chiltern to Haddenham & Thame Parkway and then take his chances from there, so hope his arrival coincided with a 280 bus into Oxford.

I thought it was due to power cuts...how on earth can someone not see that amount of cabling going missing and how does it affect the railway FOR THAT AMOUNT OF TIME?

Doesn't the railways/FGW have a control room with alarms which could action a resposne asafp? I was stood at Slough at 13:10 I can't believe this was still ongoing 6 hours later (a bit like that tennis match!)

WillC,

The HST was an earlier up service that had terminated at Oxford.It was planned to use it to restart the 1816 Hereford, but crew displacements delayed getting into the platform. So, when it reached he platform, it was announced as the Hereford, and then the decision was taken to send it as the 1854, which caused some confusion whilst the additional stops and the traincew diagrams were sorted. It had to leave a few minutes early to free up the platform and, very unfortunately, a Cross Country service arrived on platform 2 just as it was leaving platform 1, with 40 or so customers for the Cotswolds. Cue: lynch mob of Charlburyites and lots of taxis.

It was 90 Metres of cable.

Also, at some point in the early evening, there was another incident at West Drayton. Some idiot decided to go for a walk in the 4 foot and narrowly avoided being hit be a train. All services were stopped and cautioned for about 20 minutes, which added considerable delays to those already being experianced as a result of signalling problems.

I'm told it should be fixed tonght.

Thanks Oxman.. I think that explains why my train got stuck for 25 odd minutes.. It's still a pity we weren't told any of this though really.. I'd like to hope the train driver found out why we were stuck so would have been nice to have passed it on to all of us..

I feel really sorry for all you who were stuck on a train for some considerable amount of time. To just sit there is bad enough, but to have no announcements at all represents appalling customer service. Surely the guards know what is going on and how long the train will be waiting for until it's on the move again.

Delays are still continuing tonight with 2 trains into Plymouth nearly 2 hours late. This must have been the worst day for FGW staff and passengers. Lets just hope that the cabling will be fixed in time for this mornings rush hour, as I am sure that was a day that nobody wants a repeat of any time soon.

It's actually very possible in certain circumstances that guards may not know exactly what is going on (they get their information from control, and if control aren't quite sure what's happening yet the the guards won't!), and they certainly might not know immediately how long it'll take before a train is on the move again.

But, that said, it's no excuse for not making any sort of announcement at all - something along the lines of "We're delayed by cable theft. At the moment I'm sorry, I don't know exactly what's going on or how long we're likely to be here, but as soon as I do receive any information I'll let you know". I think passengers would at least rather have som ekind of acknowledgment that there's a problem from staff on the train, and you're right that not to say anything at all is fairly poor customer service.

Thats right Inspector Blakey. Some kind of announcement would not go a miss. Correct, in some circumstances the guard and the driver may not know the amount of time they will have to wait. They will have to just wait for the green signal.

Well yes.. I've heard "we don't know anything at the moment.." announcements before.. And at least then you know that there is no information rather than just guessing whether there is some which they are keeping to themselves or if in fact there is none.. Since the conditions on the train were so bad too it made it doubly worse

Oh well, trains look ok this morning.. Hope they stay that way  ;D

i am presuming your talking HST not Turbo...Jo.....problem is if the train is mega full and standing to be able to actually make announcments you do actually have to be by a PA set or actually be able to get to one.
There are normally 5 PA points on an HST with 3 of these having Driver/ Guard Communication..Coach A.D, H and 2 in F.
i managed to literally fight my way to one last night and announcments were made and at times like this lines of communication to control are difficult..and really  then our only source of information is from the signalman/driver....normally i try to update passengers every 10 min or so, but this can usually end up with you being verbally abused by someone.
Calling other T/Ms on other trains especially if they are ahead of you can give you the heads ups with real time info at delay locations.
Remember Guards are responsible for the safe working of the Train and passengers on it..situations like last night severely compromise this fact and if it wasnt for the fact that i had  4 other members of staff with me last night i would have considered invoking the refusal to work policy

The thieves that do this type of thing know exactly what they are doing, they will tie the cable to a lorry chop through them with an axe or disc cutter and drive off towing the cable behind them some times if we are really unlucky they rip the guts out of signal location cabinets. 

To show how desperate these people are last week thieves chopped through a LIVE!!!! 33,000 volt cable near Guildford, last weekend in Kent thieves took to pieces a 33,000 volt transformer they got away with about ^20 worth of scrap but caused ^15,000 worth of damage the transformer is a right off, there are numerous electrical installations on the railway which have had there earthing conductors ripped out this is not only hazardous to the perpetrators but the staff that work on equipment, all this costs you and me as passengers and tax payers a lot of money.
A lot is being done on new installations to limit the value and marking of assists but the railway has hundreds of thousands of km of cable.

I did hear (perhaps somebody can confirm?) that the theft actually took place on the Colnbrook freight branch which runs under the GWML between Iver and West Drayton, but it was signalling cables affecting the main line.  That would explain how they were not seen.  Some signals reverted to red and a couple actually lost all power and were displaying no aspect!

It's an unusual area for such a crime - though I believe there is a gypsy camp nearby which might explain it?  Some of these criminals are very clever targeting specific areas and wearing HV Vests to appear just like normal trackside workers to passing trains.   

We're actually quite lucky in the GWML area with the number of incidents of cable theft which is a growing problem for Network Rail.  Many stations in the West Midlands have signs deterring criminals at various locations and an anti-theft forensic liquid is increasingly being used to try to win the battle.  For more details see: http://www.smartwater.com/Media-Centre/Latest-News-2/May-2010/Network-Rail-on-Track-to-Beat-Cable-Theft.aspx (http://www.smartwater.com/Media-Centre/Latest-News-2/May-2010/Network-Rail-on-Track-to-Beat-Cable-Theft.aspx)

From the BTP press release (http://www.btp.presscentre.com/Media-Releases/BRITISH-TRANSPORT-POLICE-APPEALS-FOR-INFORMATION-AFTER-CABLE-THEFT-WEST-DRAYTON-fae.aspx):


Hmm.  30 feet of cable, according to the police?

The perpetrator(s) entered the railway along the less used Colnbrook Branch, where the mainline is above it.
This is where they were able to steal the cable without being seen.

In total it was 90 Yards that was stolen.

Normal working resumed to the signaller at 22:45 last night.

How likely is it that they get perps who do this sort of thing?  What sort of sentence would they get?
I wonder how one of these idiots would do if their antics caused a fatal accident in which their mother was a victim.

(Mutters something about bringing back the birch...)

It is not unheard off that the perps' actually get very seriously injured or even killed. 

Catching them in the act is very diffcult, catching them with the stolen cable off site is also diffcult although modern cable etc is DNA marked. 

I have heard that the thiefs used the old West Drayton frieght yard, probably in and out over the crossing on the Colnbrook branch. Apparently, turbos have forward facing CCTV and this is being downloaded from trains that were in the vicinity at the time.

Yes it was an HST.. Just before we got to Maidenhead,, there was an announcement that the driver wished the train manager to contact him which suggested it was possible to make some sort of announcements?

 As you say, guards were responsible for the safe working of the train... yet no one was making sure my area of the train was safe... This isn't a dig at the people working on the train, I can only imagine how hard it was yesterday.. But I can't see how anyone working on this train could do anything other than stay where they were.. If the HSTs choose to put their communication systems apart from their guards then that is a little silly...and hopefully FGW will rectify this soon?

I can only imagine if someone really did pass out.. rather than nearly doing so in my carriage, and the communication/emergency cord had been pulled.. we'd have been in real trouble?

They do indeed (and rearward-facing too, I think). The data from these cameras have been used in RAIB investigations, and some of their reports contain screen captures, for example the report into the injury of a maintenance worker at Kennington Junction.

Not necessarily.  That's an automated announcement and just means the driver has given a 3-3 on the buzzers and not had a reply within 10 seconds.  Although the driver has a handset in the cab and can speak to the Train Manager, he/she has no ability to make any announcements, even in an emergency.  So, if the guard was unable/unwilling to get to a handset then announcements might not have been possible.

Big Trouble YES Jo..with a train that full and a pulled passcom it would be impossible to reach the problem area,

So..how dangerous is all that then (a comment which covers the last two replies).. It makes me realise how good driver only trains are.. at leat they are able to make announcements...

Seriously though.. In an emergency.. Isn't that a total joke?

Also, further to my previous reply.. I've been told by FGW (more than once) before that it is up to the train managers/guards discretion on at what point it becomes dangerous to let a train go when it is really full...To me last nights train was allowed to go in a dangerous condition if it wasn't possible for any announcements to be made (it seems).. Surely this isn't right?

The Train Manager is in charge of the train, there isn't really any need for drivers to communicate with the public. Regarding the dangerous crowding, as you were there do you think there would have been a riot if people at Paddington were turned away considering the chaos.?

Yes, that's technically true. But I think in those sorts of situations the guard can really find themselves stuck between a rock and a hard place. Do you take a train out with too many people on board, or do you refuse to work it until somebody has got off? "Refusal to work" will cause additional disruption in what's already a bad situation (imagine the reaction of several hundred people waiting on an overcrowded train when they're told that it won't depart because the guard has refused to work it) but there may be non-neligible safety risks in the event of really gross overcrowding.

I've seen this happen in practice, a few years back on "T4 on the beach" weekend at Weston Super Mare. First train from PAD to WSM (or maybe it was BRI, but that's fairly immaterial) on Sunday morning is always relatively late in the morning, and this one was disrupted by over-running engineering works en route. It was full by Didcot, then got progressively worse through Swindon and Chippenham. At Bath, where I alighted, the train manager was trying to order people off because she said it was not safe to carry on. Guess what...? Nobody budged an inch. After a five minute stand off I guess she decided that the lesser of the two risks was to dispatch the train rather than have it standing there blocking the main line for even longer, all the while with more passengers trying to squeeze on.

Circumstances like those yesterday can put staff in an impossible position sometimes, and I don't envy them having to make those kinds of decisions. But there are all kinds of risk factors that come into consideration: there may be a risk in taking out a severely overcrowded train. However, there may be an even bigger risk in not doing so - for example, what is the risk of turfing almost 1000 passengers off an HST onto a concourse that may already be overcrowded as more and more people turn up for their journeys home and find severe service disruption going on. At Paddington that could have implications for people backing up into the underground, on stairways, etc etc.

It can be a real catch 22 situation, and I don't for one second suggest that I have any real answers, just trying to give an idea of the different factors that have to come into play. Whenever you have huge crowds of people congregating due to disruption, there is a risk that is unavoidable (fainting, panic attacks, stampedes or worse). Once you're in that situation, it's a question of managing the risk as best you can, since it isn't going to go away until the backlog of people has cleared. So yes, it may certainly not be ideal taking out a grossly overcrowded train, but under the circumstances it could be one of the least bad options available.

Ok well people were technically turned away as no one else could get on and then we sat there for quite a while longer with people trying to.. There was no riot..
I only asked as I've questioned before overcrowding on trains and was told  (by FGW)that it's up to the train manager when they consider it to be dangerous or not... I always guessed that was FGWs stock answer.. I guess now we know  ;D

Sorry in advance for quoting it all (too late to narrow it down).. But surely FGW should make sure it's possible for someone on the train, when it's overcrowded, to make an announcement? That is what worries me about passenger safety should there be an emergency with all those people on board?

An article in the current issue of Modern Railways says that the new customer information system being installed by First Capital Connect will be loaded with a library of emergency timetables to use for screens and announcements when they have problems, such as the tunnel under central London being closed, splitting the route into shuttles to the north and south.

Does anyone know whether the new CIS for FGW will have similar scenarios ready to go, such as trains from further west being turned back at Reading, losing use of one pair of lines during the peak, cable theft crippling signals, etc?

I'm not sure, Will.  Though I would imagine it would be an easier task on a TOC like First Capital Connect where, especially on the Thameslink route, there's a more clockface pattern of services, and that would lend itself better to an amended timetable - especially if it was a simple scenario as the tunnel being shut and splitting the north/south service into shuttles.

I know that basic work on contingency timetables has been done by FGW to deal with a number of the commonest scenarios, i.e. turning back at Reading/Ealing Broadway etc., but I don't think it's specific enough that you would want to upload the timetables to the CIS as circumstances vary so much.  For example if there's a block between Maidenhead and Slough the frequency of the shuttle service you might be able to offer between Slough and Paddington depends on how many sets you have that side of the problem.  Granted, that's less of an issue now that several Turbos are usually stabled at Old Oak Common outside of the peak hours, but it could still mean changes to a prepared emergency timetable.  Also, the amount of fuel in the trains, the location and number of guards/drivers and so on, make it virtually impossible to enforce a fully prepared timetable.

There is still a lot that can be done with provision of information, and the removal of dedicated Train Crew Supervisors at some of the larger stations (Oxford, Reading, Paddington etc.,) along with long-gone dedicated station announcers & local CIS operators at stations like Oxford and Slough has not helped the situation in recent years.  It's a shame, as benefits gained by steps to improve the flow of information over the last ten or so years, such as pagers, mobile telephones, help points and so on have been somewhat countered by those changes for the worse.

Though I'm interested to hear of FCC's plans for their new system, I would be very interested to see how it works in practice!

I take all the points about overcrowding and the driver unable to make announcements.  I would have thought though that the ability for someone (guard or driver I don't care who) to make announcements at all times would be a matter of safety. 

Remember when the Eurostars got stuck in the tunnel.  the only real risk to passenegrs was when they started opening the doors and wondering about.  What might have prevented the passengers from doing this?  more information from the staff.  Annoucements are about providng information, but in an abnormal situation even when there is no information to provide they do also provide reassurance to nervous passengers that there is a technical problem rather than an disaster.  Some people panic in abnormal sitautions (and start thinking about terrorism or crashes or whatever).  Panic passengers do stupid things like faint or open doors. 

Anyway - hope thay catch the thieves.  I bet they where wearing Hi Vis.   

I agree with Tim - especially given that there is a handset in the driver's cab, there should be a means for them to make announcements on the train - even if in emergencies only!  I can only assume that the design of the system (dating from the late 70's) precludes this from happening without a lot of money being spent?  More modern trains all have this feature as far as I know, for example the Class 180's do.

Turbo's obviously have the ability for drivers to make announcements, as can somebody in the back cab of the train.  It's even possible for the signaller to make announcements on the train by patching through via the Cab Secure Radio system, so that on a D.O.O. train where the driver has been incapacitated, it is still possible for somebody to give the passengers information.  I presume this is also the case on all other D.O.O. routes?

So some B*****D's steal signal cable about 15.00hrs, and Network Rail expect to get back to Normal around 22.00

WELL DONE NR.

Right there are four Basic types of cable in trackside troughs.

Fibre Optic (scrap Value Nil)

Mult-core phone cable (scrap value Pence)

Mult-core Signal Cable (scrap value ^10 for 100 metres if stripped, just not worth it.)

Power Cable running with 650volts in it (scrap valve for 100 metres if stripped down about ^200-^500 for 100 metres).

Have a guess which the Low Lifes go for, problem is they pull it out with a 4X4 and this cable rips apart the mult core signal cable as it's pulled out.

NR have to locate and get to site new power cable, new signal cable that has to be repaired Very carefully by ONE gang and their work checked by a Second gang. Since Clapham Junc accident signal work has to be checked by a second group of engineers.

Considering the work involved I'm amazed that repairs ONLY take 6 hours.

It couldn't be any worse than the screens at Oxford still trying to show the normal timetable, albeit with cancelled and delayed all over the place, despite the service being nothing of the sort, seven hours after the cable was severed. I appreciate that each situation is different, with rolling stock and staff all over the place, but having some sort of fallback plan has surely got to be better than either displaying information that bears no relation to what's actually happening, or no information at all, which seems to be where we are at present.

Surely this cable is only on third-rail electrified routes?  Even on those routes I'd be surprised if it ran in the same trough as signalling cable - wouldn't that cause interference problems?

I think possibly the best solution for some stations, with the staffing levels available, is for a summary of what service is operating at that particular station to be displayed rather than actual trains and 'on time', 'delayed', 'cancelled' etc. 

For example if the lines are closed at Maidenhead and a 30-minute shuttle is operating Slough all stations to Padd, then the screens at Langley, Iver, West Drayton would display a message saying something along the lines of 'There is severe disruption due to xxxx at Maidenhead.  The normal timetable has been suspended and a special service is operating between Slough and London Paddington at approximately 30-minute intervals calling at all stations.  These trains are due to leave here at 22 and 52 minutes past the hour towards Slough and 12 and 42 minutes past the hour towards Paddington.  Please note that these timings are subject to short notice amendments.  Please ask a member of staff or use one of the 'Help Points' for more information.'

Much better than displaying nothing, and not specific enough to mean that what is being displayed has no bearing whatsoever on the actual service being provided.  The templates for those scripts could be loaded into the system and amended by the CIS operator as appropriate.  Obviously at larger stations you would need the back-up of constant announcements and staff on the platforms, but it's better for them than having wrong information displayed and having to constantly correct it.

No, 650 volt AC - [corrected - shouldn't have guessed if unsure  :-\ ] is the normal BR trackside power supply, all over the country. That's signalling, telecoms, heaters, AWS etc etc.

DC traction power supplies mean more big cables again, fortunately for some reason they seem not to be such a popular target - I expect because even the scrotes armed with hacksaws and croppers realise they aren't going to trip the breakers, as the protection arrangements are designed to allow for the 1000s of Amps drawn by trains in normal operation.

Paul

Thanks for the correction.  I didn;t know that

Tim

Signaling supplies are distributed as ac and not dc,  ac allows the use of step down transforms to 110v etc.  While 650 v ac is the most common there are areas in the UK that use 440 v ac. 

For the techie minded who know BS7671 the 650v systems are usually an IT system and the 440 v TNC (for the non techie http://www.arca53.dsl.pipex.com/index_files/elect4.htm (http://www.arca53.dsl.pipex.com/index_files/elect4.htm)  )

Stupid question I am sure, but I assume that the signalling and Comms use low voltage DC for operating and that the 650/440 AC is just for power distribution?  Where is the AC distibuted to (surely it is only signal boxes that need the AC supply??.

The ac is distributed from certain relay rooms and from power signal boxes, on the GWML these have a supply from the DNO (electricity supply from the street) and a diesel generator which starts on mains fail.  The power goes from these relay room / power signal boxes to other relay rooms and to some of location cabinets along site the railway from these supplies at a lower voltage then power the local equipment