Great Western Coffee Shop

I've just posted this on the more specific "Save the Train" board ....

http://www.savethetrain.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4179.0 (http://www.savethetrain.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4179.0)

.... it's not really appropriate for "Firstgreatwestern.info" as it wouldn't be First Great Western  ;D

Great idea Graham, if it were down to me you'd have your service. Wonder if SWT are allowed to run services on the transwilts? We know they can run to Bristol so why not if FGW dont want to run a service. Just imagine smart newly refurbished 158/159s and if you really wanted to treat yourself First Class as well. Is it worth writing to them with your suggestion?

The open access route may be worth exploring, maybe if someone could buy outright some of the off lease 142's (crap I know but better than nothing, and nothing else is availiable!) or perhaps some heritage DMU's to convert (just like Chiltern and ATW have done!) then maybe it could be done? if SWT were to run Swindon-Melksham-Waterloo then they would recieve a share of FGW's revenue from all tickets sold between Swindon and London terminals, they wouldn't like that at all!!!!!!

No they wouldnt would they  ;D They should provide a better service on the Transwilts line then.

My understanding is that under Open Access arrangements, anyone can ask to run a train service anywhere.  The limitations are in proving that you're suitable to run the service, and it terms of system capacity to carry the extra service.

There are a LOT of loops to be jumped through in terms of setting up a company to do it, as you see with the current Wrexham and Sunderland to London proposals.    On the other hand, Hull trains already run a Humberside to London service which in the most part competes with GNER ... but Hull trains isn't an independent company - it's actually a part of the First group so they didn't have the same loops to jump through - they were already there.

System capacity is the other issue, and an open source operator who wanted to pass through Reading would probably not get accepted.  There are other less obvious / less clear cut points like this too.

An Open Access operator into a station run by a franchised company (or indeed a franchise service run by a different operator) is not always welcomed / marketed properly. Indeed, at the time that Wessex Trains ran the TransWilts they very much "camped" in this way, and on more than one occasion I was advised to catch alternative services operated by First  (a train to Bath then a bus to Melksham, for example) when there was a perfectly good train sitting there in the bay for those who knew about it

I can understand this "enemy within" attitude from the main player; after all, they are paying the government 1.1 billion to run all the services on top of track access costs and normal taxes, etc ... but Wessex trains was subsidised, and an Open Source operator would not have a premium to pay.

Sorry - did you want a short answer ;-)

Link to even more:
http://www.savethetrain.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=359.0

Hull trains wasn't originally owned by First (I think it was originally owned by teh Renassance Trains consortium who are responsible for the Wrexam and Shropshire service).  I think First gained Hull trains almost by accident when it brought its parent company in a (failed) effort to have a second chance of winning the Greater Anglia franchise (what is now "one") after failing to get past the first stage.  First also aquired GB Rail Frieght at teh same time.