Great Western Coffee Shop

Looking back at some of the old FGW liveries I notice they changed liveries about every 3 years.   The current liveries have been about since 2006.  So is a new livery change due soon?

ALmost certainly not. They've not long finished painting the whole fleet in the current livery. Changes in the past have coincided with franchise changes or changes in First's corporate identity.

Why on earth when the whole fleet looks "corporate" in the new colours, with paint that should be good for several years, would a company waste money re-painting everything?

Yes looking at it that way, it would be a waste of money repainting all their trains.   It's just that the livery seems to have been about for a fair old while now, and previous to the current livery they seemed to change their livery more frequently.  Personally I preferred their old Barbie livery to their current one.

With FGW possibly* losing their franchise in 2013(I thought it was 2016, so to read of 2013 was a surprise), it wouldn't be sensible to spend/waste money on a new livery yet.  Leave it till 2013 and see if they keep the franchise....

* chances are they will keep it though.  I'd be amazed if another operator ever took over now!

2013 is the minimum, with a possible extension possible until 2016.

I think most would agree the current livery looks quite smart and wouldn't need changing even in 2013 if the franchise was extended/renewed/renegotiated?

I agree, but who knows who will be running the franchise in 2014.  It could be First but who would have though just afew years agothat NX would be out of the picture completely?

I'm sure the DafT will change franchisee anyway, nothing like wasting money!

The FGW franchise was for 7 or 10 years as I recall, with the bulk of the franchise payments to the government in the last 3 years.   It's First's decision as to whether they want the final three years; with (on one hand) the downturn on the economy  (on a second hand) continued growth well above forecast on some routes and (on the third hand) a chance to rebid at a lower price and still beat Stagecoach and Arriva Db, it will be interesting to see which way they go.

It's worth noting that it was only this weekend that the last refurbished or rebuilt buffet cars were due to enter service (according to my sources). That's four years after the franchise started. Although in fairness, this does represent an improvement over what was originally envisaged (some 2+7 with no buffet).

Are there enough spare MkIIIs around to add one to each train if at some future date overcrowding requires it and a franchise specification includes it?

Quite simply First will not change the brand as post refurb/refresh along with the sorting out of the majority of stock problems, they seem to be doing well and the livery on the train is all part of the brand. Unless there was a major problem then there is no need to re-brand the company unless there are obvious problems as it is not only a waste of money but ruining a brand that the livery is part of.

Post deleted....wrong board. Dunno quite how that happened - although I was disturbed by a Tory party candidate knocking on the door earlier. Very disturbed....

Which thankfully means no going back to a Wessex Trains style operation with a bewildering selection of lurid colours and virtually a bespoke livery on each & every vehicle. What a Fred Carno outfit it looked.....
(http://www.wnxxforum.com/interactive/images/smilies/Smilies%20171008/puke.gif)

(with thanks to the WNXX forum for the loan of the puke emoticon).

I seem to recall that 2+9 would be an expensive operation, as the depots would need to be extended. But still probably a bit cheaper than IEP.

Lengthening all or some of the 2+7's to 2+8's would go some way to alleviating the summer weekend crush down to Devon and Cornwall though as the extra 80 or so standard class seats would come in very useful.

 ;D

That's true, but given they've only just been reduced to 2+7 how likely is it?

I read in the current Rail that there are a few dozen HST Mk III not being used.   It would make perfect sense to add these to the trains that need them (and the London to devon/Cornwalls must be prime canditates).  No problem with depot lengthening because the depots have all managed with 2+8 until recently.

This is the kind of thing were BR would have done better.  We are not talking about buying expensive new trains or anything just using coaches which the taxpayer paid for 40 years ago and which are now presumably costing money to store.
However, the Roscos will want money in rental and FGW will in turn want money from the governement and the whole thing is just too expensive and complicated rather than just a case of getting the best use out of assets already in the country. 

I am in general a suporter of market forces, but we have created the structure of the industry all wrong when it makes financial sense for old stock to be stored rather than being used on trains by fare paying customers.   

The Few dozen vehicles you read about will be 2. 3 and 7 series catering vehicles, i am 99% sure there are no stored TS or TF hst compatable mk3 trailer vehicles any where, all there is is whats being used, remember also there are also approx 30 ex loco hauled coaches which have been converted for hst use.....

There are a number of TSO and FOs of the loco-hauled variety in store which are owned by DB Regio and are being retained for their project to provide loco-hauled Mk3 peak workings for Chiltern.