Title: DB to take over Arriva Post by: John R on March 16, 2010, 21:53:01 Speculation in this evening's Standard that Deutsche Bahn are interested in Arriva.
I'm sure that such a takeover could only be good news. Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: RailCornwall on March 17, 2010, 16:14:54 Arriva shares up on takeover bid
Shares in transport group Arriva have climbed by as much as 20% after it confirmed it had received its second takeover approach in as many months. The bus and trains group refused to name the bidder, but there are rumours that it has come from Deutsche Bahn. Sunderland-based Arriva confirmed early in March that merger talks with France's state railway SNCF had ended. more^. BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8572452.stm) Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: inspector_blakey on March 17, 2010, 16:22:28 Thanks for the extra information RailCornwall - the possibilty was mentioned in this thread last night so I've merged the two together.
Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: RailCornwall on March 17, 2010, 16:44:35 Ok. Would have thought that it warranted a separate thread though.
Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: grahame on March 17, 2010, 18:20:20 Ok. Would have thought that it warranted a separate thread though. Merges like this are a very fine balancing act for us moderators ... only this morning I woke to a p.m. suggesting that non-FGW content was taking over somewhat in some places. Of course, a lot of that is because FGW have been doing very much better of late (that's official - they're the most improved operator) so there are less brickbats flying in their direction. There aren't any hard and fast rules on merging ... but we will tend to merge non-core topics slightly more dramatically than core ones. These things are discussed between the moderators, and everyone's thoughts are welcomed. Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 18, 2010, 19:51:26 From the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8575472.stm):
Quote Arriva takeover bid confirmed by Deutsche Bahn Deutsche Bahn, the German national rail company, has confirmed that it has tabled a bid for Arriva, the UK transport group. On Wednesday Arriva's shares rose 17% after it said it received a takeover approach, but did not name the bidder. But on Thursday Deutsche Bahn said it had made a cash offer for the group, but did not disclose its value. Deutsche Bahn already operates the Chiltern Railways route between London and Birmingham in the UK. Arriva's shares rose another 4.6% on Thursday following the news. The Sunderland-based group is one of the largest transport groups in Europe, with operations in 12 countries. In the UK it runs several train and bus networks, including the majority of passenger rail services in Wales. Earlier this year, Arriva confirmed it was in talks with French state railway group SNCF about a possible merger, but they later ended without agreement. Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: RailCornwall on April 19, 2010, 12:30:05 Deutsche Bahn 'nears Arriva deal'
German national rail company Deutsche Bahn is close to sealing a ^1.6bn takeover of UK transport group Arriva, according to reports. Deutsche Bahn confirmed last month that it had tabled a bid for Sunderland-based Arriva. Now it has been reported that its board is meeting this week to approve the bid with an announcement expected in the next couple of weeks. more^. news.bbc.co.uk/1 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8629466.stm) Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: eightf48544 on April 20, 2010, 20:51:21 Deutsche Bahn 'nears Arriva deal' German national rail company Deutsche Bahn is close to sealing a ^1.6bn takeover of UK transport group Arriva, according to reports. I would have thought that the German Regulators would have something to say about DB taking over as Arriva as Arriva has runs lots of rail sevices in Germany taking over form DB when teh Lander went out to tender, Most notably the Vogtlandbahn in the SE of the old DDR, where they run most of the local trains including cross border sevices into the Czech Repulic and an IC service from Plauen to Berlin. unfortunately this is a DMU which runs under the wires for about 90% of it's run. They also run Stadler LINT units along the tram tracks in Zwickcau, dual gague line as the trams are metre gague. It's quite strange to see a full sized DMU trundling up the road. Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: bobg on April 21, 2010, 08:54:53 I would have thought that the German Regulators would have something to say about DB taking over as Arriva as Arriva has runs lots of rail sevices in Germany taking over form DB when teh Lander went out to tender I'm not sure that it'll be too much of a problem, as the regional services are ordered for and paid by the different L^nder governments, so DB would just have to take over the existing Arriva contracts. Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: Henry on April 22, 2010, 09:07:14 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8636503.stm Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: anthony215 on April 22, 2010, 10:31:33 Just thought that everyone would like to know that DB have signed a deal to purchase Arriva.
Maybe if everything goes to plan the DB management will be able to sort out some of the problems at arriva particulary the probelsm with the crosscountry franchise Hopefully as well maybe DB would be willing to purchase some new trains for the cardiff valley lines network to allow the pacers and some of the class 150's to be sent to FGW and northern etc to help them with overcrowding problems Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: readytostart on April 22, 2010, 14:00:18 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8636503.stm Better get my lederhosen down the dry cleaners! Cannae wait to see the Welsh translation of Deutsche Bahn Trains Wales! As for CrossCountry, you don't get much crosser than a country that tried to take over Europe twice! Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: devon_metro on April 22, 2010, 14:41:57 Ze Germans have tried war, so it seems they are invading us by stealth this time... ;) ;)
Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: devon_metro on April 22, 2010, 14:56:16 If anything needs new trains its Cardiff - Portsmouth, not the Cardiff Valleys where the journeys aren't long, nor do they make much profit.
Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: JayMac on April 22, 2010, 16:57:38 From the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8636503.stm):
Quote UK train and bus operator Arriva has agreed to be taken over by Germany's Deutsche Bahn in a deal worth ^1.59bn. The deal is set to create one of Europe's biggest rail and bus transport groups. Deutsche Bahn runs Germany's national rail services, as well as Chiltern Railways and rail freight services in the UK. Arriva runs rail and bus services in 12 European countries, including Arriva Trains Wales in the UK. Deutsche Bahn's chief executive Rudiger Grube said he expected the deal to help his company expand further in Europe, targeting Europe's "increasingly liberalised and fast-growing transport markets" which he said were "of strategic interest to Deutsche Bahn". Consolidation plans The German operator is keen to expand beyond its domestic market, where it faces increased competition. Arriva's chairman Sir Richard Broadbent said the ^1.59bn price tag "fully reflects the value of the business". Shareholders will now be asked to give their approval for the deal. A takeover of the Sunderland-based company has been on the cards for months amid a trend towards consolidation of the European transport industry. Arriva's agreement with Deutsche Bahn follows talks earlier this year with France's train operator SNCF, which ultimately broke down. Deutsche Bahn's Mr Grube said he expected the newly merged group to eventually be one of the few leading transport companies operating in Europe. Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: Chris from Nailsea on April 22, 2010, 18:31:26 As the initial speculation on this subject has now become fact, I've taken the opportunity to give this topic a wider profile, by moving it from 'South Wales local journeys' and merging other related posts from the 'Cross Country destruction of service' topic - in the interests of continuity and completeness.
Chris. :) Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: welshman on April 22, 2010, 22:37:33 Now we can have a direct service from Aberystwyth to Marylebone without W&S whingeing. If it's any help, the Welsh for Germany is "Yr Almaen" and for German is "Almaeneg". Bahn being railway more or less, the Welsh is rhelffordd. Rhelffordd Almaeneg Cymru? Trenau Almaeneg Cymru? I suspect we'll just have DB Cymru. Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: Chris from Nailsea on April 22, 2010, 22:44:16 From the Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/apr/22/viewpoint-arriva-deutsche-bahn-takeover):
Quote Transport market is becoming a demolition derby Arriva's takeover by Deutsche Bahn raises the question of how much the public will gain from consolidation in the sector So this is how liberalisation of the European ^200bn (^173bn) transport market will work. The field will be reduced to half a dozen players; the process will take 10 years; the state-owned giants will lead the mopping-up operation. This vision was outlined yesterday by R^diger Grube, chief executive of Deutsche Bahn, as he unveiled an agreed ^1.6bn takeover of Arriva. It is depressing. Almost alone among the UK transport groups, Arriva made the wise decision in the mid-1990s to concentrate its overseas expansion solely on smallish deals in continental Europe. The process was "painstaking," says chief executive David Martin, but few doubt its success. Arriva operates in 12 countries, has been winning contracts by the bucketload and rewarded its shareholders with unbroken dividend growth. In a rational world, liberalisation would encourage the likes of Arriva to continue to exert competitive pressure on state-owned titans. Arriva recently won a high-profile route into Berlin. Did this embarrassing loss prompt Deutsche Bahn to pounce? The German anti-cartel regulators recognise the threat to local competition and will force Deutsche Bahn to divest Arriva's German trains business. This ruling is not a deal-breaker, explained Grube. You bet it's not: he is buying a company that was becoming a serious irritant in other parts of Europe. Both sides made play of the fact that Deutsche Bahn is a "normal" company in the sense that is structured as a joint stock company. Come on, all the stock is the hands of the German state, which is not open to offers even if it mutters occasionally about a flotation. The principle of reciprocity is being ignored. Will the lot of the poor old passenger be improved? Arriva, under the wing of a big brother, may be able buy trains more cheaply and pass on the benefits. But, once Grube's vision is realised, we may also regret the loss of competition and variety. Naturally, few are complaining today. German trains are meant to be impressive. Arriva's shareholders can celebrate a 50% takeover premium. The UK government can trust Deutsche Bahn's commitment to Arriva's base in Sunderland ^ this is not a Kraft/Cadbury. In a decade's time, however, we may wonder why anybody thought the cause of liberalisation was advanced by encouraging successful private companies to sell themselves to state-owned corporations. Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: RailCornwall on April 22, 2010, 23:01:57 Welshman ...
DB committed to retaining the Arriva brand outside of Germany, I presume if there's no German forced divestment the Arriva operations will be merged back into DB's home operations. Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: Chris from Nailsea on April 22, 2010, 23:08:17 From the Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1268112/German-rail-group-1-6bn-takeover-British-bus-rail-firm-Arriva.html#ixzz0lrxBhuM2):
Quote German rail group in ^1.6bn takeover of British bus and rail firm Arriva in ^1.6bn deal Germany's state-owned rail company is to takeover Britain's trains in an attempt to get them to run on time. In a blow for the nation which invented the railways, Deutsche Bahn has agreed a ^1.59billion deal to take over the UK's second-biggest bus and rail firm Arriva. The deal marks yet another loss to foreign ownership of key elements of Britain's manufacturing or infrastructure heritage. The takeover of Arriva is the latest step by DB to exploit liberalised European transport markets to grow quickly in size through acquisitions. But the move was condemned by furious unions yesterday. The giant Rail Maritime and Transport (RMT) union said it would be seeking urgent meetings with the new owners. The RMT said DB had 'slashed its workforce by half ' since moves to privatise it began in 1994 and was 'aggressively raising capital' for acquisitions in the EU. DB carries five million train passengers a day in Germany and operates in more than 130 countries with even more foreign take-overs planned. Already among Britain's transport 'crown jewels' under German ownership are Britain's Rolls-Royce and MINI, which belong to BMW, as well as Bentley by Volkswagen. Many more are under wider foreign ownership, such as Jaguar Land Rover which is owned by India's TATA, and airport operator BAA which is owned by Spain's Ferovial. Rapidly expanding Deutsche Bahn already has a toe-hold presence in the UK - running services such as the Chiltern Railways route between London and Birmingham Snow Hill. It owns the company which runs the Royal Train and recently also won the contract to operate the Tyneside Metro running in Newcastle and Gateshead. In comparison, Arriva grew from modest roots as a family motorcycle firm founded more than 70 years ago in Sunderland. It currently runs CrossCountry and Welsh rail services, as well as having a 20per cent stake in London buses and many businesses across Europe. Gerry Doherty, leader of the TSSA rail union, said: 'If Germany believes railways should be run by the state in favour of the passenger, why don't we do the same here in Britain. 'Ministers are quite happy to see German state owned railways take over our badly run privately owned companies without drawing the blinding obvious correct lesson. 'France, Italy and Spain also run their own railways rather than allow passengers to be ripped off by private profit seekers.' Bob Crow, RMT general secretary, added: 'This is a huge step in the wrong direction for rail workers and passengers and should sound a warning that we are heading towards a dangerous monopoly of rail and bus services across Europe in which profit comes ahead of safety and service.' 'The accelerating pace of acquistions across Europe will be bad news all round as DB seeks to squeeze both its passengers and its workforce.' Deutsche Bahn chief executive Rudiger Grube said that the Arriva brand was 'very, very valuable' and would be kept outside Germany. The company will also maintain Arriva's current headquarters in Sunderland - ironically just a few miles from the world's very first railway between Stockton and Darlington, as well as Stephenson's own home at Wylan in Northumberland. Mr Grube said job losses were unlikely as a result of the move: 'This is a merger for growth, sustainability and profitability so I hope we will create workforce rather than reduce workforce.' The company is confident of getting the deal approved by European competition authorities, although some of Arriva's German business will have to be sold. Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: Adrian the Rock on April 22, 2010, 23:29:52 Quote from: the Daily Outrage ...The deal marks yet another loss to foreign ownership of key elements of Britain's manufacturing or infrastructure heritage. Hate to say it, but we just don't seem to be much good at managing anything other than trading-type businesses in this country. (NB for avoidance of doubt, this remark is aimed specifically at senior managements and the modern-day transatlantic business school culture (and not just in the rail sector) - not middle managers or staff on the ground. I hope this may gradually change, now the banking crisis has happened, but I doubt it'll be overnight. The other point most media reporters and analysts tend to forget is that long-term trade deficits (ie balance of payments - not budget) = need to make and sell family silverware. This is the real underlying reason so many of our businesses get taken over by foreign companies. In the meantime, I don't think DB have done too bad a job at Chiltern/WS&MR. If they can get some Evergreens to take root in Wales that would be great. Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: JayMac on April 23, 2010, 01:38:14 Quote from: Daily Fail Germany's state-owned rail company is to takeover Britain's trains in an attempt to get them to run on time. What a truly terrible opening line to the story. Phrased like it was the only reason DB are taking over Arriva. In fact I bet that ATW and XC's Public Performance Measure had absolutely no bearing whatsoever for the takeover. Dead tree press journalism? Don't ya just love it! ::) :D EDIT: OK, fair enough. The bit about '...an attempt to get them to run on time' has been removed from the story at the last update at 1:12AM. And it's no longer '...a blow for the nation which invented the railways', that bit's been re-written as well. Less bombastic sub-editor perhaps? The unions are still 'furious' though! Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: Chris from Nailsea on April 23, 2010, 02:31:23 An interesting additional item has now appeared in that Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1268112/German-rail-group-1-6bn-takeover-British-bus-rail-firm-Arriva.html#ixzz0lrxBhuM2) article:
Quote Passengers will have to pay the price Almost two decades after the privatisation of British Rail, a large chunk of the country's transport network is back in state hands. The new owner of Britain's biggest rail franchise and a large number of the nation's big city bus networks will be the wholly state-owned German rail operator Deutsche Bahn. The successor company to Deutsche Reichsbahn, which ran the trains to Germany's Second World War death camps, won control of Sunderland-based transport group Arriva after a ^1.6billion bid. The Arriva board, headed by former HM Customs & Excise chairman Sir Richard Broadbent, capitulated. The Deutsche Bahn bid has triumphed despite Lord Mandelson's promise of a 'Cadbury law' designed to toughen the scrutiny of takeovers to determine if they are in the 'public interest' and make it harder for foreign predators to snatch control of Britain's best companies. Arriva, which is in charge of the Cross-Country franchise which runs from Aberdeen to Penzance as well as Arriva Trains Wales, is widely regarded as Britain's most efficient transport operator. It has been a pioneer in Europe, which produces 42 per cent of its profits and revenues. If nodded through by regulators in the UK and Germany it will be another blow to Britain's efforts to lead a free market revolution across Europe. A series of overseas bids for power and transport companies has shifted control of the privatised enterprises back into European state hands and made a mockery of the competitive model. The domination of the nation's energy supplies by Continental giants such as France's state-controlled Electricite de France and Germany's E.On has left Britain's energy regulator Ofgem fuming over the lack of competition. It is conditions in Europe, rather than an open auction, which set our energy bills. The German boss of Deutsche Bahn, Ruediger Grube, left no doubt who would be charge of the Arriva companies post the deal. 'We intend to be the drivers not the driven,' he declared. His comments were intended to relieve the anxiety of German politicians who have argued that the state-owned railway may be paying too high a price. While the bid may be good news for Arriva shareholders (who receive 775p in cash for each share), it is hardly likely to be in the best interests of British rail and bus passengers. German domestic investment is almost certainly likely to be a higher priority than running the bus networks in Liverpool, Leeds, Leicester, Glasgow and Newcastle. London faces the unhappy prospect of 20 per cent of the buses potentially carrying the Deutsche Bahn livery. There will also be some disquiet at the rather unfortunate history of Deutsche Bahn when it comes to confronting its past. In 2006 the company found itself in major disagreement with the German federal government when it refused to allow an exhibition of Nazi deportations to be shown at stations across the country. Eventually the firm gave in to public pressure. Until recently the Labour government had refused to become involved in overseas takeovers of British firms, allowing large swathes of industry, from Pilkington Glass to ICI and Hanson, to fall into foreign hands. By making its offer now, under the deep cover of an election campaign, Deutsche Bahn will be counting on pre-empting any changes in the law. Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: JayMac on April 23, 2010, 02:44:47 The second article mentions the prospect of 20% of London buses carrying the DB livery.
Which kinda contradicts the first story's quote from DB CEO Rudiger Grube saying, "the Arriva brand was 'very, very valuable' and would be kept outside Germany." Even if they didn't keep the Arriva brand, London buses wouldn't carry DB livery, just discreet logos. And what point is served by mentioning Deutsche Reichsbahn running the trains to concentration camps in the second world war - save for stirring up anti-German feeling? Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: matt473 on April 23, 2010, 06:01:42 The second article mentions the prospect of 20% of London buses carrying the DB livery. So that'll DB repainting the London bus fleet to, err, red then I guess. :P Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: welshman on April 26, 2010, 19:09:25 Quote from: bignosemac And what point is served by mentioning Deutsche Reichsbahn running the trains to concentration camps in the second world war - save for stirring up anti-German feeling? Exactly so. "Capitulated", "foreign predators", "unfortunate history". Stand by your beds, gentleman. We face defeat. Presumably Arriva's acquisition of interests elsewhere in Europe did not make it a foreign predator etc etc. Are its British employees in Europe to be evacuated by small boat? Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: inspector_blakey on April 26, 2010, 19:16:47 Presumably a take-over by SNCF would not have mentioned the French state railways' complicity in the Nazis' "Final Solution" - to bring it up in the context of DB really is a ridiculously low blow even for the Daily Hate.
Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: John R on April 26, 2010, 20:44:14 I'm told DB Cross Country will be getting rid of the electronic seat reservations, and changing to a traditional method of putting a towel on each reserved seat, two hours before it is due to be occupied. ;D
Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: inspector_blakey on April 26, 2010, 20:46:49 Sorry John, someone's already beaten you to it (http://railwayeye.blogspot.com/2010/04/arriva-dont-mention-war.html)!
Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: JayMac on April 27, 2010, 01:44:01 "Ve haff vays of taking your TOCs" ;D
Title: DB takeover of ATW Post by: welshman on August 18, 2010, 22:03:44 It seems this has now been approved (http://www.deutschebahn.com/site/bahn/en/group/group__affairs/ariva__20100811.html) and will happen shortly
Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: JayMac on September 30, 2010, 19:10:40 A vision of the future? ...
(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/DB-1.jpg?1285870462) (Image by Paul Burkitt Gray, based on a photograph by Matt Buck, published under the Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike license.) Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: paul7575 on September 30, 2010, 20:32:35 Only if you completely ignore all the earlier announcements where DB have insisted that existing Arriva liveries used all over Europe will not be changed.
Paul Title: Re: DB to take over Arriva Post by: bobg on September 30, 2010, 20:39:04 But the DB livery does look better than the current XC one though!
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