Great Western Coffee Shop

Hello.. This is slightly out of FGW area but I just wondered if anyone knew the answer to this..

My parents live in Bedford and off peak travel up until now has always been on trains that arrive at St Pancras after 10am..

They need to travel to London on Wednesday morning and when they went to buy train tickets today for this, they were told that off peak now doesn't start until the first train after 9.30am..

However I've just been into First Capital connects website and the information there appears (altho slightly hard to find) to say that they could get their usual 9.10 departure on an off-peak ticket (it arrives about 10.10 so after 10am).. And also if I use the First Capital Connect online booking it is giving me the cheaper price (I checked for a single ticket) for the 9.10 departure and more expensive for the one before which does arrive in London before 10am.

I'm not a little confused? Maybe they should just book their tickets on-line as either someone has given them wrong information or there is something different between ticket office tickets and online tickets?

Does anyone know which is right?

Thanks  :)

I have a bit more information now..

If they buy an Off-peak single they can travel on the 9.10 departure..

If they buy an Off-peak return (returning Saturday) they can't travel till 9.30..

Either it's off-peak or it isn't surely?

There is a difference in price though of ^8 (the return being cheaper)...

Oh for the train fare system to be simple  ::) ::)

Go by what the Internet says, that is usually correct.

It's similar to how I was told that XC only offer compensation for 2 hours when asking for a form, despite knowing it was 30 mins! Only as good as their training I suppose.

Thanks devon_metro but it looks like an off peak return means they can travel on less trains than an off-peak single (see my previous post) which must surely mean there are now different versions of what off-peak means surely?

Is one of them an "off peak day" ticket whilst the other is simply "off peak"

Before the fares were "simplified" it was either cheap day or saver. Far less ambiguous and I suspect that is the issue.

I think (their website is very slow so I don't think I can face doing it all again now).. but one was off-peak single and one was off-peak return (being over more than one day though).. That is the only difference.. the single and return bit.. very strange.. Apparently there will be some sort of discount to the peak time return fare for people with eurostar tickets though.. apparently..

The plot thickens. I just tried looking up the restrictions in Avantix traveller but can't for the life of me find any sensible fares for any combination of Bedford./Bedford Stations to London St Pancras or London Terminals. Bizarre...

I think my best advice in the situation is to use the National Rail journey planner, give it the outward date and approximate time, as well as the return date/time, then have a look - it should give you about five options for each journey and with a bit of luck you can hit the peak/off-peak boundary where the fare offered will decrease!

Oh dear.. It's Beford Midland which I think is BDM to St Pancras if that helps?

As far as I can work it out, an Off-Peak Day single is available on any train from 0919. Buying one of these for each leg of the journey costs GBP 17.90* each way.

Alternatively an Off-Peak return for the journey is GBP 28.00*, but that's not valid for departure until 0949.

I think d_m hit the nail on the head, silly as it is: the off-peak return fare is equivalent to the old "Saver" fare, whilst the off-peak single is a day single per the old "Cheap day single". These evidently used to have different time restrictions that have carried through, even though they now have the name off-peak.

This is truly ridiculous, but seems to be how it is...!  ::)

_{*full adult fare, no railcard or other discount applied}

Thanks inspector_blakey

I think your summing up of truly ridiculous is correct..

A passenger is being offered two different off peak tickets.. with different allowable off peak times..

My parents opinion.. "they don't seem to be making people want to use the trains".. I tend to agree with them...

Even more confusingly.. NR website is offering two off peak singles cheaper than the return they wanted..

Wed b4 9.30 ^17.90 pp and Saturday as long as they don't get London midland, but get First Capital connect, ^11.80.. Now that is about the same price as the return ^28 give or take the odd pound but then allowed to travel earlier on Wednesday.. Although strangely enough the NR website can't see the 09.10 train from Bedford to London that is on the timetable... deep sigh...

Could be because the FCC train is very slow so gets overtaken (similar to asking the journey planner for journeys from Oxford to Paddington - it should produce the fast trains but not the all-stations stoppers, which is sensible up to a point).

Just checked - if you select the "show overtaken trains" in the "advanced search" on the NR website the 0910 appears, showing a fare of GBP 17.90 each! It arrives STP at 1009. So that could be an option for their outward journey, although I don't see the FCC-only single on the Saturday.

It really is farcical that a journey this simple can turn out to be such a maze of different fare options.

Appalling!  ;)

Quite agree Chris!

Put BDM (Bedford) and STP (London St Pancras) into Avantix NFM05 and all that comes up is a selection of East Midland Trains group tickets and a solitary FSR (First Class Off Peak Return). So I tried 'Bedford Stations' to STP and all you get is 'no valid fares'. So I tried 'Bedford Stations' to 'London Terminals' and all I got was a selection of Weekend First upgrade fares. In fact the only way I could get Avantix to show the correct fares from Bedford to London was to put 'London Thameslink' into the destination box.

This then brings up the fares and restrictions which match the previously posted details. The Off Peak Day Single (CDS) at ^17.90 being valid from 0910 from Bedford and the Off Peak Return (SVR) at ^28.00 being valid from 0930.

Travelling from the north 'London Thameslink' fares allow travel as far as Farringdon. These fares are 'Any Permitted' so travel with East Midland Trains into St Pancras (upstairs!), abiding by the time restrictions, should be allowed. However the 0919 EMT service from Bedford, arriving STP at 1000 is listed on their timetable as being an 'Anytime tickets only' train. Avantix NFM05 says otherwise if you are travelling on an Off Peak Day single or return. EMT's journey planner contradicts their .pdf timetable though - allowing the use of the Off Peak Day fares on the 0919!

Bleddy confusing innit?

Well they are off to the station again today as they were told that if they give their Eurostar ticket details (this being the reason they are going to St Pancras) then they can get some discount off of a more expensive return that will enable them to travel before half past nine... I'm a bit cynical about that one but have told them about getting two singles at ^17.90 each in case that turns out cheaper than whatever this "discounted rate" will be..

My understanding about that type of ticket is that it has what's known as "International Conditions of Carriage" which basically means that if FCC or EMT goes down the pan on the day which they travel and they miss their Eurostar train then they can take a later one without any extra cost. So it might be worthwhile buying one of those just for the guarantee?

Bedford to London International (CIV) Euro High Saver Return (EVR), valid from 0915 from Bedford, so fine for the 0919 to St Pancras arriving 1000 is ^28.00. Return travel after 0930 and not between 1730-1830 Mon-Fri, any train weekends/bank holidays.

The totally unrestricted product is the Euro Std Return (EOR) at ^45.00

Hhmm well they have now got their ^28 return tickets but were told they could also travel on the 9.10 departure with them since they already have Eurostar tickets.. That's just before 9.15.. It will be interesting to see if they are actually allowed

Thought I'd forward a link to this thread to the ever knowledgeable and efficient Barry Doe of Rail magazine...here's his response!

Well it makes the system of train fares from Maidenhead to Paddington seem simple.. Well the ones that I buy anyway  ;D