Great Western Coffee Shop

Not been 'up' for a while, something that has intrigued me is whether the 'new' Circle line has significantly altered pedestrian flows with more FGW/HEX/HCX passengers arriving at and departing from what were the H&C platforms and less at the Praed Street entrance to the station.

Does anyone have any official information, hearsay or direct observation of any significant changes over the last three months?

The situation is fairly critical in peak periods, especially the overbridge linking the top of platform 8 with platforms 9-16.  This area has already been busy, but now verges on the farcical as soon as a couple of H&C/Circle line trains arrive at the same time along with a busy FGW terminator in either 13 or 14.

Direction barriers have helped a little, but the ticket barriers at the end usually result in queues and that's not helped one jot with the ticket machines the other side leading to snakes of people queueing and blocking the way once you have got through the barriers!

Off-peak that area is also noticeably busier, but not quite so critical, although the queueing for tickets can cause problems at any time of the day.  Also causing problems is a narrowing in the width of platform 12 so that Span 4 work can take place.

I think it actually is more serious than farcical I would say it is unsafe at times

I hate to think what would happen if there was an emergency which required the station to be evacuated with all those people queuing to get up the stairs..or to get to platform 12.. It could result in panic..

Its certainly unpleasant and must be a horible place for staff to work.

It looks like another unintended consequence of the T cup circle.


It goes along with the suprise at how many people change at Edgware road to make the West to North connection (High Street to Baker St eastwards).

I always thought the point of the Circle was to provide the corners.

Liverpool Street to Tower Hill (serving Aldgate in both directions), High Street Kensington to Gloucester Road and Padd to Baker Street.

To knock out one seems to defeat the object of the service.   

The new circle line has definately been a backwards step for Paddington. Quite frankly platforms 15 & 16 are a disgrace. It was just about acceptable prior to the change as fewer people used them, but now they simply can't cope.

I hope they are planning to remedy the situation after they have finished the 4th span (which seems to be taking an age) as it gives a really bad first impression of London to many arriving from Heathrow.

I've never seen a proper justification for chopping the clockwise Circle at Edgware Road.  There's huge inconvenience for Padd users who have to trek to the H&C to avoid a change to get to Baker Street and beyond, and of course other clockwise Circle users have no option but to change at Edgware Road, probably not always cross platform, and having to fight for a seat again etc.

Platforms 15 and 16 are narrow, there's only a single stairway for up and down, and the barrier provison there is inadequte.  Did NR conduct a proper risk assessment to understand the effects on passenger flows and the associated risks when LT came up with their idea to chop the Circle? Especially with the ongong work in that area of Padd re Crossrail - surely the last thing you want is more passengers trekking to P15 and 16.

The tea-cup line is a good idea.  It eliminates conflicting movements at a flat-crossing at Edgeware Road which are a cause of delay and a contraint on capacity. 

However, the changes might have been defered until the money was found to improve pedestrian access.

They are - the fourth span allows for the rebuild of the H&C station and clearance of the platform obstructions, as well as the relocation of the cab rank. On completion, the H&C station will be behind its own gateline, which should avoid some of the congestion where the TVMs are now, the existing footbridges will be used for separate LU and FGW passenger flows.

We discussed the plans recently: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=5868.0 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=5868.0)

Paul

The tea-cup idea doesn't eliminate conflicting movements.  Westbound H&C trains still conflict with clockwise Circles & Wimbledon-Edgware Roads as they always have done. 
 

Are you sure.  i though that the platform reallocation at Edgeware Road had reduced the number of conflicting movements.

Platform re-allocation at Edgware Road doesn't alter the fact that there are only 2 tracks from the west end of the Edgware Road fan (ie where the outer two platform lines leave/join) to the flat junction where the Circle and H&C lines meet.  These lines are not bi-directional - even if they were, you could not avoid conflicting movements, it's a fundamental feature of flat junctions.  So conflicting moves remain: in fact the tea cup idea may have increased conflicting movements, and must certainly have made Edgware Road station and the junction more difficult to operate.

I thought LT's "justification" for the tea cup was to improve reliabilty by providing a terminus base for Circle trains, which otherwise had nowhere to start up or come out of service when thinks go wrong.  I think it's a pretty feeble reason to mess up the travelling habits of thousands of clockwise Circle passengers.

Thanks for putting me right.  I was under the impression that a train from Hammersmith and a train from Paddington Praed Street could get to Edgeware Road without crossing each other's paths (ie the double tracks were configured like they are in the tube map with no cross overs.  But if there are only twin track immediately West of Edgeware Road then my theory don;t make sense.. 

If that isn't possible then I am not sure what the operational benefit is. 

I noticed today that they've improved the passenger flow actually ON platforms 15 & 16 by removing all the seating, waiting shelters and drinks machines - not sure whether that's a temporary or more permanent measure though?  Hard cheese if you want to sit down.

Permanent I think. In the planning drawings the platforms are completely bare of seating etc, but there may be room upstairs in the new H&C concourse. 

P15/16 as drawn appears to have (working from east to west) 3 sets of 'normal' stairs spaced out along the platform, followed by a MIP lift, 'firefighter stairs', and lastly an emergency exit staircase at the far west end. 

Paul

I'm a regular user of 15/16 and since the change I've noticed a much larger number of passengers with heavy luggage, presumably changing to/from Heathrow Express. As they struggle up the stairs and through the barriers they hold up passenger movement. A lift at 15/16 would be a big help!

I realise that this is an old thread but on walking down (actually up) platform 9 today by the builders' hoardings, I measured the narrowest part of the platform - it was only 39" (991mm) to the edge.

When one considers the current safety and regulation hysteria, how does this sort of thing get through?

Any HMRI's out there?

OTC

The narrowness of 9 is not as bad as that of 12, 9 is far quieter as it only has embarking / disembarking passengers whereas 12 has to contend with 13 & 14 flows as well.

but still.. having experienced platform 12 too many times recently.. on Sunday we came into platform 9 and it seemed a lot narrower than platform 12 to me... It took ages and ages to get off the platform as the train had been rather full... It does worry me if there was some sort of emergency what would happen..