Great Western Coffee Shop

Got a penalty fare announcement at Truro today - very severe it was too - wondering if it has anything to do with Truro being 'barriered' ?

Four frightfully well spoken 'gells' and a Cello then got an earful (and a leaflet) for boarding without a ticket - initially I was a bit sympathetic as it's an engineering weekend CIS is down and timetables don't apply.

However they later discussed how they share railcards, use ungripped returns and any other method of travelling free !

 

The penalty fare announcements are a legal requirement for the introduction of Penalty fares between Truro and Exeter on april 5th, along with the verbal waring that all non-Penalty fares staff are supposed to give to anyone boarding at penalty fares stations without tickets.

cant wait for this to come in exeter st thomas is a great example of where people will walk there to avoid barriers

So lets hope they get caught by regular RPI stings then. And lets also hope that there are no further examples of ways to fare dodge on a public forum.

This is all good news.  Sounds like there is a problem and the PF will help to solve it.  But PF are only part of the story.  Hopefully FGW (with support of BTP) will come up with enough staff to have a sustained blitz, because that is what is needed in order to change attitudes to ticketless travel.

Bignosemac.  It is hardly a state secret that certain stations do not have barriers and hardly rocket science to figure out that it may be easier to dodge a fare if there are no barriers (in fact this is only the flip side of the message that barriers make dodging harder which the TOCs have been telling us for years)

It may not be rocket surgery or brain science that certain locations are easier to fare dodge than others, but highlighting such locations is still out of order IMHO.

not really.... st thomas is a stupidly obv one which needs something done about it

More staff have been trained to do PFs recently and barriers should be in Truro by the end of the year

It's an interesting point. If the author had written it along the lines of "Hey, I've got a good tip for passengers from Exeter to avoid paying for their journey on 9 days out of 10.... etc, etc" then I would agree.

But written as it was it appeared to add a useful point to the discussion on boarding trains without having paid for a ticket, and as such I think the merit outweighs the disadvantage. After all, I hope none of our community would read it and act on the information in the way you suggest. And even if they did, I suspect anyone of such an intent would do it anyway.

Sorry, I'm probably sounding like a moderator now.  

This one is a finely balanced call for those of us who moderate ... and you'll note that none of us has previously jumped in on this thread.

Where there's a post that points out a new way of travelling that's outside what the rules allow, or which advocates breaking the rules, you'll see a fairly rapid response. That's the easy bit.  Where someone points out some locations which are more 'tender' than others, it's more tricky and if these things are well know / published elsewhere / obvious, we'll tend to let them be ... actually, we have a reputation in some quarters as moderating rather more than on other forums.

XC and before them Virgin are far more efficient at revenue protection than FGW - I've often seen people asked to leave trains/pay up for rail card misuse, reservation infringements, throwing away the wrong half of a return and plain not having a ticket.
If I catch the 8:35 XC from St Erth I can be pretty sure I'll get gripped by Hayle or at worst Camborne.

I've just been from St Ives to Exeter Central no checks on the HST but was asked to produce exiting EXC. Returning the only check was on the St Ives branch.

Checks on DMUs in Cornwall seem pretty good but HSTs are a joke - there are a few TMs that do an excellent job but a lot seem to forget why they are employed.
Would you open a petrol station with an option of not paying - fitting HSTs with an 'honesty' box might generate some revenue.

Regarding training - that's obviously working on the DMUs - not a word on the HSTs where the potential for evasion is much greater.

The excuse for lax ticket checks that I have often heard is that "guard's can't work SDO and look after revenue at the same time". Now, on the face of it, that sounds pretty reasonable until you remember that there are some guards who quite happily manage both (and with a smile on their faces!) which does make you wonder why the rest can't.

Then again ticket checks on HSTs in south Wales are in my experience even worse - there isn't the excuse of SDO, stations are reasonably well spaced out and yet a significant number of guards just don't bother. It's not at all unusual to go from Reading to Swansea (or even Carmarthen) with no ticket check! Again though, sometimes you will get a guard who makes you realize that it's quite possible - I remember a tiny-but-formidable female guard taking no prisoners when she did a ticket check immediately on departure from Swansea (and every subsequent station), in the days before barriers. That really caught the Neath/Port Talbot/Bridgent Free Travel Society on the hop!

I often get on and off at St Thomas (not for fare evasion reason!) and I have to say, I always get checked for tickets - well, approached instantly and sold a ticket.

I have to agree with both of those statements.  I'd also observe that the TMs who are busiest and most efficient are always the ones who are happiest and most polite.

I wonder if it has anyhing to do with the fact that XC and ex Wessex guards are on personal commission for ticket sales but TM's are not  ;)

Sorry if this is a bit radical for some on here, but I have long believed that TMs and guards should be stripped of all responsibility for selling tickets.

The railways of Britain have long appeared to be reinventing themselves as airlines. Whether this has been a conscious movement or an accidental drift, it's obvious to even the most casual of observer. FGW are in the forefront of this: you board an HST with your hand luggage, sit in a cramped, high backed seat (some with a television screen at eye level in front of you), and listen to the safety announcements.

The message seems to be, trains aren't like buses - they are more like aeroplanes. That being (or possibly that boeing...) the case, tickets should and MUST be checked both before boarding and on arrival.

All stations should and must have ticket selling and checking facilities. Barriers should prevent access to train doors - if you haven't got a valid ticket, you don't get on - pure and simple. At locations where there are no permanent staff, stops should be longer so the arriving train's guard can make sure people get in and out of the barriers ok (again, just like happens on aeroplanes).

Journeys will take longer, of course. Tough. If given the choice between a slightly longer journey or being assumed by default to be a faredodging criminal lowlife, as ALL train passengers seem to be these days, I'm sure most reasonable people would vote for tighter controls and longer journey times.

On-board ticket sales belong to buses and coaches (though I think I'm right in saying even National Express coaches require tickets to be bought in advance?). In this day and age, NO tickets should be sold on board a train, and the train managers and guards should be primarily in charge of health, safety and security on board.

End of rant... sorry....

Not me.  The journey time is more important for me.   If 5% of people getting away without paying is the price I have to pay for being able to buy my ticket on the train (and consequently get out of bed 10 minutes later)then it is a price I would be willing to pay. 

Once upon a time the railway was always cheaper than flying.  This is not aways the case now but you seem to be arguing for the rail industry to give up the last remaining advantage it has over planes. 

Have a look at page 29 of http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1975/1975%20-%201283.html (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1975/1975%20-%201283.html) for details of British Airways 1970s London to Glasgow shuttle.  A ^19 ticket is was available to buy on the plane!  (even Scottish notes were accepted!!) BA obviously thought that offering such a facility was neccessary to compete with the convience of BR.

You still need to deal with a loophole.  Even if tickets were always available before boarding, the nature of stopping trains is such that onboard ticket checks would still be required to protect against pax buying two 'short tickets' for either end of their through journey.

Paul

Probably not for much longer...  ;)

phil i am 100% behind you on this... how many times have you seen the guard make the effort to check tickets on a busy train only to get to the first group of people (normally late teens pretending to be 15 to get child fair so id's need checking then an argument insues) and by the time they have done that group were at the next station and half the train has got off ticket free greeted by no barriers, its not the guards fault im not even blaming fgw the fact that so many people do it eather by ignorence or cant be bothered to get a ticket,or know that there is a chance of a free ride and no punishment is worrying however penalty fair will solve it if enforced.. all guard should be doing is checking tickets issuing p'fs and the normal duties