Title: A bit of 'outside the box' thinking to avoid cancelling a service. Post by: JayMac on February 24, 2010, 17:16:46 Today I travellled from Swindon to Bristol Parkway on the 1438 (1345 ex PAD to Swansea) and we were delayed departing Swindon by 25 mins because the front power car had 'technical issues.'
Overhearing radio traffic between station staff and later confirmation by the TM, was that the front power car's AWS wasn't functioning correctly but we were given permission to proceed to BPW, I guess with just ATP. To avoid cancelling the service, after BPW the train proceeded to Filton Abbey Wood where it reversed so that it could utilise the other power car for the remainder of the journey to Swansea. I'm assuming this was done because ATP isn't fitted on the line all the way to Swansea. Is this correct? I wonder what happened to this HST at Swansea. Whether it was taken out of service or reversed again to continue with its diagram. Or even fixed! Title: Re: A bit of 'outside the box' thinking to avoid cancelling a service. Post by: devon_metro on February 24, 2010, 17:28:34 If AWS is duff it needs to be turned at the nearest opportunity. Obviously it wasn't considered convenient at Swindon. ATP is irrelevant.
Title: Re: A bit of 'outside the box' thinking to avoid cancelling a service. Post by: super tm on February 24, 2010, 20:12:02 Today I travellled from Swindon to Bristol Parkway on the 1438 (1345 ex PAD to Swansea) and we were delayed departing Swindon by 25 mins because the front power car had 'technical issues.' Overhearing radio traffic between station staff and later confirmation by the TM, was that the front power car's AWS wasn't functioning correctly but we were given permission to proceed to BPW, I guess with just ATP. To avoid cancelling the service, after BPW the train proceeded to Filton Abbey Wood where it reversed so that it could utilise the other power car for the remainder of the journey to Swansea. I'm assuming this was done because ATP isn't fitted on the line all the way to Swansea. Is this correct? I wonder what happened to this HST at Swansea. Whether it was taken out of service or reversed again to continue with its diagram. Or even fixed! You are correct. Title: Re: A bit of 'outside the box' thinking to avoid cancelling a service. Post by: readytostart on February 24, 2010, 20:14:57 If travelling over an area equipped with ATP and will not venture out of that area the train can proceed normally.
If travelling outside of an ATP equipped area and a competent person can be provided (the guard usually) then the train can proceed at line speed (except in fog or falling snow) to a place where the train can be taken out of service, turned, replaced etc. If no competent person can be provided the train can not exceed 40mph to a place where it can be dealt with as above. The guard in this case is required to have full route knowledge and ensures the driver reacts appropriately to any forthcoming signals or speed restrictions etc. Title: Re: A bit of 'outside the box' thinking to avoid cancelling a service. Post by: JayMac on February 24, 2010, 21:46:47 If AWS is duff it needs to be turned at the nearest opportunity. Obviously it wasn't considered convenient at Swindon. Or indeed even possible to turn at Swindon! Title: Re: A bit of 'outside the box' thinking to avoid cancelling a service. Post by: inspector_blakey on February 24, 2010, 22:24:40 If travelling outside of an ATP equipped area and a competent person can be provided (the guard usually) then the train can proceed at line speed (except in fog or falling snow) to a place where the train can be taken out of service, turned, replaced etc. Does this require two guards, one to ride "up front" and one to work the train? Or is it permitted to operate an HST with only one guard and him/her riding in the front cab, even though they're effectively isolated from the rest of the train? Title: Re: A bit of 'outside the box' thinking to avoid cancelling a service. Post by: readytostart on February 24, 2010, 22:48:49 Does this require two guards, one to ride "up front" and one to work the train? Or is it permitted to operate an HST with only one guard and him/her riding in the front cab, even though they're effectively isolated from the rest of the train? I don't think it does, I can't remember being specifically told that I must travel on a specific part of a HST. I suppose you can, in an emergency get to the train via the engine room. In most circumstances the TOC would try to get another competent person to ride with the driver, ie another Driver, Guard, or competent manager to allow the train's booked guard to travel with the rest of the train.Probably comes down to an individual TOCs contingency plan rather than a rule book requirement. Title: Re: A bit of 'outside the box' thinking to avoid cancelling a service. Post by: JayMac on February 24, 2010, 23:12:18 I don't know what was the case with this particular service. The TM was still doing his normal rounds between SWI and BPW. Unsure as to whether another 'competent' person was up front, although there was a protracted staff meeting at the forward pointy end whilst we stood at SWI.
Title: Re: A bit of 'outside the box' thinking to avoid cancelling a service. Post by: JayMac on February 24, 2010, 23:31:04 Incidentally, top marks to the Train Manager who gave clear information over the PA regarding the delay and the reasons why the train would reverse after BPW, using laymans terms. He then walked the train, answering pax questions about onward connections in South and West Wales.
A lady sat in front of me was concerned that she'd miss her connection to Milford Haven and subsequently face a 2 hour delay. I got chatting with her and learnt this was her first train journey for nearly 10 years. I offered advice with regard to claiming compensation and gave her a FGW compo form that I happened to have on me. As I left at BPW the TM was still busy liaising with Control regarding arranging onward road transport for pax travelling beyond Swansea who were likely to miss their connections and face a 2 hour wait for their next service. I'd like to pass on praise to FGW for this TMs sterling customer service, but I neglected to get his name (I was distracted by a brand spanking Class 70 parked at BPW - God, they're ugly ;D ). I've got the headcode for the service (1B40), but if anyone out there in coffeeshop land knows his name, then please PM me.... so much better to include a name in a praising e-mail. Title: Re: A bit of 'outside the box' thinking to avoid cancelling a service. Post by: inspector_blakey on February 25, 2010, 03:23:19 If you've got a cancellation on your ticket the conductor is also identifiable by the 3- or 4-digit code at right angles to the date and reporting number.
The lady heading to Milford should have been OK, as if she missed her service I believe FGW policy would be to provide a taxi from Swansea (or possibly Carmarthen). Certainly FGW staff have told me before when I've been heading for Whitland that if we missed the connection a taxi would be provided if the wait for the next train was more than an hour ("don't worry sir, it's one of our policies, it's what we do"!) Title: Re: A bit of 'outside the box' thinking to avoid cancelling a service. Post by: super tm on February 25, 2010, 19:54:50 The guard in this case is required to have full route knowledge and ensures the driver reacts appropriately to any forthcoming signals or speed restrictions etc. Guards cannot do this as they do not have the required knowledge. Only a qualified driver would be allowed. Guards route knowlegde and drivers route knowledge is different. There are only two occasions when the guard can be a competent person to travel with the driver. If the DSD is isolated and the guard would be able to stop the train if the driver became incapacitated. Also if it is dark and the driver is requested to examine the line he can ask the gurard to join him as an extra pair of eyes to keep a look out. Title: Re: A bit of 'outside the box' thinking to avoid cancelling a service. Post by: JayMac on February 25, 2010, 22:42:09 DSD? Is that the foot treddle? What's DSD stand for?
Title: Re: A bit of 'outside the box' thinking to avoid cancelling a service. Post by: devon_metro on February 25, 2010, 22:59:32 It is indeed the Vigilance device, not sure what the tla is though. Driver Safety Device perhaps?
Title: Re: A bit of 'outside the box' thinking to avoid cancelling a service. Post by: inspector_blakey on February 25, 2010, 23:01:28 Exactly. Well, strictly speaking it's Driver's Safety Device but that's beyond splitting hairs!
Title: Re: A bit of 'outside the box' thinking to avoid cancelling a service. Post by: JayMac on February 25, 2010, 23:14:33 Quite a lot of abbreviations in a train cab aren't there?
ATP, AWS, TPWS, DRA, DSD..... any more? Title: Re: A bit of 'outside the box' thinking to avoid cancelling a service. Post by: devon_metro on February 25, 2010, 23:16:37 OTMR? :D
Title: Re: A bit of 'outside the box' thinking to avoid cancelling a service. Post by: inspector_blakey on February 26, 2010, 02:41:17 CTBC (on newer stock, anyway)...
Title: Re: A bit of 'outside the box' thinking to avoid cancelling a service. Post by: JayMac on February 26, 2010, 03:49:32 CSR, RETB, CDU
Title: Re: A bit of 'outside the box' thinking to avoid cancelling a service. Post by: JayMac on February 26, 2010, 04:06:35 CTBC (on newer stock, anyway)... Is this not more usually referred to as CPBC for modern mainline stock? CTBC is however used for London Underground stock. Title: Re: A bit of 'outside the box' thinking to avoid cancelling a service. Post by: readytostart on February 26, 2010, 09:35:57 The guard in this case is required to have full route knowledge and ensures the driver reacts appropriately to any forthcoming signals or speed restrictions etc. Guards cannot do this as they do not have the required knowledge. Only a qualified driver would be allowed. Guards route knowlegde and drivers route knowledge is different. There are only two occasions when the guard can be a competent person to travel with the driver. If the DSD is isolated and the guard would be able to stop the train if the driver became incapacitated. Also if it is dark and the driver is requested to examine the line he can ask the gurard to join him as an extra pair of eyes to keep a look out. Maybe different companies, different working instructions and different route knowledge requirements for guards as I've been up the front during an AWS isolation with my previous TOC and was told it would also be the case during training with my current one. For anyone insterested, the roles of the driver and competent person are below: Driver: When the train or traction unit on which the AWS or TPWS is defective or isolated is approaching a signal, you must: ^ call out the signal aspect or indications to the competent person, and ^ give a commentary on the speed reduction on the approach to cautionary and stop aspects. On the approach to speed restrictions, you must tell the competent person that you are applying the brakes to observe the restriction. Competent Person: When you are accompanying the driver on a train or traction unit on which the AWS or TPWS is defective or isolated, you must: ^ have the required route knowledge for the entire route over which you have to accompany the driver ^ acknowledge the driver^s reaction to signal aspects, sequences or indications ^ if necessary, remind the driver of a signal displaying a cautionary or stop aspect ^ acknowledge the driver^s reaction to speed restrictions ^ if necessary, remind the driver of the speed restriction ahead. This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |