Great Western Coffee Shop

The FGW 158s seem to suffer badly from dirty windows, while SWT's similar trains do not. Is there some major difference in the cleaning programme / equipment to explain this?

It may be partly explained by the intensive use that FGW's stock gets, compared to the SWT DMUs. SWT has plenty of spare units so they spend a lot more time hanging around Salisbury depot being cossetted than your average FGW 158!

It's also possible that there's a difference in cleaning regime - for example, I don't know if all of FGW's units finish their diagrams at a depot with a carriage washer every night, whereas I'm 90% sure all of SWT's do.

Internally from fairly wide experience I've almost always found FGW units to be very clean (and certainly much better than in the days of Wessex and Thames), the odd exceptions usually being busy trains late at night containing more than their fair share of boozed-up pond life.

Looking back, Wessex got into trouble with Passenger Focus for the filthy state of their trains at one point, so this is nothing new (I'm afraid I had a bit of a gripe that PF has "how clean are the trains" in their remit, but NOT "are the trains actually running at the time that people want to travel" - but that's an aside).

I've been on Southern, SWT and FGW services over the past few weeks - various journeys - and the "West" fleet has been far least clean, with a shockingly filthy 150 on Saturday on the 'local' out from Bristol to Bradford-on-Avon.  Perhaps FGW have a different paint finish / vinyl that attracts dirt?

Always one to take advantage ... the state of the windows made a beautiful atmospheric filter for photographs:

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/fgw_dirty_bath.jpg)

although changing the focus to the windows was a bit depressing:

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/fgw_dirty_150.jpg)

There is a memo going around re these dirty DMU's. It all stems from the cold weather back along when the decision to isolated washers was made. Days and days of not washing has made the dirt stick to the bodysides so well that when put through those wash plants the brushes left most of it where it was.

There is a program of manual washes taking place and I in fact saw a 158 going through a scrub with some chaps armed with big buckets and brushes at the 'Marsh' last night!

I find the inside of FGW's 158s to be very clean.  However the outside is always dirty.  But then does it really matter whether the outside is clean or not?

I sometimes stand at Cosham and see an SWT EMU on the opposite platform which is sparkling.  Then an FGW 158 pulls out and it is filthy!

it matters when the windows are dirty.  If  the carriage washers can't clean teh wholw train (at times of breakdown, freezing weather or draught), an effort could still be made on the windows.

This is a prime example of the age old problem of cleaner rolling stock or those that are out providing services. There is unlikely to be any slack in the diagrams in the short or medium term as the fleet is over streched as it is. Considering the problems as a results of fatalities and accident damage, the units are not in to bad a condition as result of the effort put in by staff. If only there was more slack to ensre all the problems could be sorted, however this won't happen unless FGW recieved a large number of units which we all know will never happen

the quality of the wash plant has to be questioned as 158's stabled at fratton go through the SWT wash and come out clean,the wash plant down there must have better brushes than FGW's.

IIRC I heard an explanation once of SWT's exterior cleanliness being down to their having "acid" train washing plants rather than detergent washes which don't do very much if the train is very dirty. 

It was a long time ago I heard this explanation and I might be wrong, but their would appear to be such a thing as an "acid train wash" judging by this link which happens to be illustrated with a SWT EMU.

http://www.trainwash.co.uk/bingham/Services/TrainCare/AdvancedDetergents/AdvanceSafeAcid/tabid/193/language/en-GB/Default.aspx (http://www.trainwash.co.uk/bingham/Services/TrainCare/AdvancedDetergents/AdvanceSafeAcid/tabid/193/language/en-GB/Default.aspx)

 

The talk of slack in the diagrams is surely a bit of a red herring. There's a large amount of slack say between 2 and 5am. Is it not more likely a case of a keeping costs to a minimum and not spending that little bit extra on staff and/or decent carriage washers.

Doesn't seem to be an across-the-board policy though. The LTV fleet usually looks reasonably tidy externally and more often than not you can see your face in the side of an HST.

very good point it would seem only the west fleet that is dirty,with the exception of the pacers in my opinion.

so it leads back to the wash plant at SPM as being the problem as it would seem every other depots is working fine?????????

Can't we get 'Bob-a-Job' on the case? They do a grand job in supermarket car parks of a Sunday.  ;) ;D ;D

I know that the wash plant at Exeter doesn't get used, when the temperature drops below a certain point (freezing I presume!) ???

thats correct at freezing point the same as other depots but when in operation it seems to clean a lot better than bristols

Ah ! another FGW apologist (employee ?)   ;D

I think this is an entirely valid point. The average FGW DMU set is pretty grubby externally whereas the SWT unit are alway very good. I see many going through Warminster and the difference is striking.
Set against this, I must say that FGW do make more of an effort to keep the interior of their trains tidier with regular walk-through rubbish collections.

As usual, this group has generated an interesting range of comments. I think iron oxide brake dust is one of the principal components of the grime on the windows (brilliantly captured by Grahame's photo) - this might explain why HST's are externally cleaner (no iron brake blocks) rather than special cleaning attention.

I had a recent journey on a grimy 142 from Exeter - not using the washer in freezing weather sounds like the explanation - but then how did SWT manage to clean its trains on the same day?

SWT have more time to clean there trains  ??? I mean pacers can really only get cleaned at the end of service, which can be at around about 11pm at night  ??? And I doubt there are any cleaners about then.

11pm?! They run (bounce) later than that!

iron oxide might explain 150,153 and pacers but what about the 158's that have pads like hst? i would say problem more likely hst have priority over dmu's.

cleaners work 24 nour rosters like a lot of other railway staff,i mean how do you think they are clean internally at start of service also the wash plants do not stop at night either.

Perhaps they should buy one of these new Argentinian train washers...

http://www.youtube.com/v/3B14iekBmtU (http://www.youtube.com/v/3B14iekBmtU)

Acknowledgements to Railway Eye

Paul