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All across the Great Western territory => Across the West => Topic started by: IndustryInsider on February 02, 2010, 19:35:16



Title: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 02, 2010, 19:35:16
From the New Civil Engineer site:

"Shadow chancellor George Osborne has today pledged that his party will build London^s ^15.9bn Crossrail scheme and start work on a north-south high speed rail line should they win the next General Election."

http://www.nce.co.uk/news/business/conservatives-vow-to-build-crossrail-and-begin-work-on-high-speed-rail-line/5213680.article (http://www.nce.co.uk/news/business/conservatives-vow-to-build-crossrail-and-begin-work-on-high-speed-rail-line/5213680.article)


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: Chafford1 on February 02, 2010, 20:25:55
The Tories have been pretty consistent about HS2 over the past year or so; good that they have now committed to Crossrail. Where that leaves funding for GWML electrification and Super Express is anyone's guess!


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: Trowres on February 02, 2010, 23:52:29
New civil engineer...playing to the audience?


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: old original on February 03, 2010, 06:33:20
Like all pre-election promises, irrelevant of party,.....don't hold your breath


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: Chafford1 on February 03, 2010, 12:21:55
Like all pre-election promises, irrelevant of party,.....don't hold your breath

The Conservatives will review: Electrification, IEP, Themeslink replacement stock and Crossrail:

http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/general/2010/02/03-no-guarantees-about-major-rail.html


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: paul7575 on February 03, 2010, 13:24:28
New civil engineer...playing to the audience?

Don't think so - the document NCE are reporting on is a Conservative policy statement, not an interview.

Paul


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: Electric train on February 03, 2010, 18:19:37
There will be swaging cuts in railway investment after the general election how much depends on who wins, to believe otherwise would be foolish even Network Rail's determination for CP4 I suspect will be reviewed, Thameslink will be reduced in its outer reaches, Crossrail could be reduced down to 8 car length and even the frequency of the core service, GWML I suspect will be on a slower pace than published and as for HST replacement?

Doom and gloom ??? I hope I'm wrong


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: Timmer on February 03, 2010, 20:32:06
Railways...always been an easy target for cuts regardless of which party wins power. Shame because in the last year things had been looking up for the railway network or were the government saying they will do this and that because an election is coming and it will be forgotten about once the election has been won.


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 03, 2010, 20:38:32
It's interesting that a fairly unequivocal statement from George Osborne one day is apparently contradicted by Theresa Villiers the next.


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: Andy on February 04, 2010, 08:07:30
The phrase "cast iron guarantee" springs to mind.  ;)



Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: Chafford1 on February 04, 2010, 12:01:14
The phrase "cast iron guarantee" springs to mind.  ;)


Funny how the Conservatives will be able to afford the ^16 billion Crossrail project but not a ^1 billion electrification scheme.


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 04, 2010, 13:22:39
Funny how the Conservatives will be able to afford the ^16 billion Crossrail project but not a ^1 billion electrification scheme.

The ^16bn Crossrail project won't cost the government ^16bn. And where has the Tories stated they won't stump up the cash for the GWML electrification?  All they've said is that they will put all such schemes into a value for money test.


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: Super Guard on February 04, 2010, 16:00:17
The phrase "cast iron guarantee" springs to mind.  ;)



I know it's a tongue in cheek/running joke now for the Conversatives... but do you think spending Taxpayers money on a referendum on the Lisbon "Treaty" after that gibbering idiot in number 10 sealed our fate by signing it would have been a good use of money?


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: Electric train on February 04, 2010, 16:40:16
The phrase "cast iron guarantee" springs to mind.  ;)

Problem with cast iron is, as an engineering material its not that strong ............. Tay Bridge springs to mined


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: Andy on February 04, 2010, 17:29:05
The phrase "cast iron guarantee" springs to mind.  ;)



I know it's a tongue in cheek/running joke now for the Conversatives... but do you think spending Taxpayers money on a referendum on the Lisbon "Treaty" after that gibbering idiot in number 10 sealed our fate by signing it would have been a good use of money?


If the Tories seriously wanted either to let the electorate decide on continued EU membership or to renegotiate the terms of membership, they could still propose a referendum to replace the one they 'guaranteed'.

The fact that the "cast iron" guarantee and talk of any referendum has disappeared into thin air - "justified" by the argument you quote above - is indicative (to me) that the whole Lisbon treaty referendum 'promise' was little more than calculated posturing. Probably, this was to appease the isolationist and eurosceptic wings of the Conservative party, seduce potential UKIP/BNP voters and secure the backing of certain North American-based media moguls.  They must have realised there was little chance of a change in government before the ratification of the treaty.

IndustryInsider, I just want to add that none of the above is meant to imply that I am for or against the Lisbon treaty/EU membership/the holding of a referendum, ok?  :)
   


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: hornbeam on February 06, 2010, 09:33:10
I thought the debt would be in Network rails name, the goverment is just securing it? Be interesting if they reckon some of the fleet will do another 15-20 years ( 150 units etc) if Replacing the 165/66 units is delayed by another ten years they wont be able to cascade them either.


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: Chafford1 on February 06, 2010, 10:32:16
I thought the debt would be in Network rails name, the goverment is just securing it? Be interesting if they reckon some of the fleet will do another 15-20 years ( 150 units etc) if Replacing the 165/66 units is delayed by another ten years they wont be able to cascade them either.

The debt may be in Network Rail's name, but in reality it's public debt. Don't be surprised if the Conservatives rip up Network Rail's 09-14 settlement after the election.


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: caliwag on February 06, 2010, 11:28:16
The Tay bridge disaster, of course, was the rivets, or rather the lack of...the iron was fine. I think you'll find cast iron will last forever, unless you belt in with a sledge hammer. ;)


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: Electric train on February 07, 2010, 10:23:48
The Tay bridge disaster, of course, was the rivets, or rather the lack of...the iron was fine.
True
I think you'll find cast iron will last forever, unless you belt in with a sledge hammer. ;)
the sledge hammer being political whim which is as predictable as a British summer.


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: caliwag on February 07, 2010, 18:15:29
Aye well everyone...just bear in mind, when voting, it's all very well the Tories supporting Crossrail (the business-man's railway, look at their mates' contracts already in place!)...big deal. I bet they don't support anything North of Watford. Beware, be very ware if you are a supporter of railway development!! >:(


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: Super Guard on February 07, 2010, 20:56:14
With the exception of Lord Adonis (no guarantee he will be in the post after a post-election reshuffle), what exactly has Labour done for the railways?


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: Electric train on February 07, 2010, 21:27:57
With the exception of Lord Adonis (no guarantee he will be in the post after a post-election reshuffle), what exactly has Labour done for the railways?
Got rid on the mess known as Railtrack (although they did drag their heels on that one), allowed Network Rail to run more or less its own affairs.  The levels of investment are the largest since the BTC Modernisation Plan.  Train performance is now back at or better than it was in BR.


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 08, 2010, 14:04:08
From the New Statesman (http://www.newstatesman.com/business/2010/02/franchise-market-rail-express):

Quote
Tories to allow National Express into rail franchise market

The Conservative party will reportedly allow the transport group to re-enter the rail franchise market if it wins this year's election.

National Express is likely to be allowed to bid for contracts in two years' time. This would be contrary to the Labour government's plan which has vowed to banish the group from the rail market after the ^1.4bn East Coast debacle.

The bus-and-coach giant had to hand its East Coast rail service back to the government after huge losses. It was also ordered to give up its East Anglia rail franchises in March 2011. John Devaney, National Express' group chairman, has reportedly met with Conservative transport team members for discussions.

A Conservative Party spokesman said the East Coast debacle "certainly doesn't make it easy for National Express to make a rapid return to the franchise market at the next round. They will need to work hard to rebuild their credibility".

It is likely that National Express will have to sit out the next round of franchising, but would be allowed to bid for contracts in 2012 and 2013, he added.


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: JayMac on February 08, 2010, 16:29:52
Not sure Labour/DfT can banish NatEx from future franchise bidding. Don't think that would be legally possible.

Awarding NatEx a new franchise however.....that's a different matter.

As for ordering them to give up NXEA, not quite true. March 2011 is the franchise end date. All the DfT have done is not awarded an extension.

Having said all that, I'm no fan of NatEx. They seem to have been consistently unlucky (maybe not down to luck - maybe just crap at running trains!) with their franchises. They have lost the most franchises - not keeping a single one beyond re-tendering. The best they have managed was to keep part of Wales and West (Wessex Trains) after the franchise was split. I'll concede they did improve service provision on one particular line, but on the whole they have not covered themselves in glory with their UK rail operations, with only a small, almost self contained franchise (c2c) showing any promise. But even that one has a silly name!


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: woody on February 11, 2010, 23:01:08
High speed rail ^ a growing concern in the soon to become backwaters?
http://www.transportxtra.com/magazines/new_transit/opinion/?ID=21
"If high speed rail with all those shiny new trains that politicians love to play with becomes the new show in town what happens to those sleepy towns marooned on the classic railway. Will businesses and people drift away as happened in towns that lost their railway under Beeching or were by-passed by the motorway network?"


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: 12hoursunday on February 12, 2010, 09:59:58

allowed Network Rail to run more or less its own affairs. 

Your living in cloud cookoo land! The goverment poke their nose into the running of the railay now more than when it was government owned. Don't matter who it is, Network Rail, First Great Western, Arriva, Virgin, any of them. Anything they do involving major amounts of money and the rail regulator needs to approve/disapprove.

Whoever is in charge should let the private companies run it as they see fit and judge the said private companies on what the have done right or wrong.


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 13, 2010, 16:41:22
A statement from our new Transport Secretary:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23833771-new-transport-secretary-philip-hammond-vows-to-finish-crossrail.do (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23833771-new-transport-secretary-philip-hammond-vows-to-finish-crossrail.do)


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: smithy on May 13, 2010, 21:12:05
he might vow to complete crossrail,but once they have had a good look at the countries books and determined the full extent of debt i would hazard a guess that the electrification on GWR will be canned.
big savings need to be made and quick so unlikely they will commit to massive spending until the national debt is under control


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: Timmer on May 13, 2010, 21:23:02
he might vow to complete crossrail,but once they have had a good look at the countries books and determined the full extent of debt i would hazard a guess that the electrification on GWR will be canned.
big savings need to be made and quick so unlikely they will commit to massive spending until the national debt is under control
The great HST lives on and on and on.


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: eightf48544 on May 14, 2010, 10:03:30
If it comes down to canning GWML electrifcation I would rather they canned Crossrail.

As the yanks say there's more bang for your bucks in electrifcation.

Hopefully Reading remodelling will still proceed otherwise it could become another Leeds and take 10 years to complete.


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: onthecushions on May 14, 2010, 17:34:21

The new SoS, Hammond was shadow Chief Sec. to the Treasury so was a spending hawk. The Under Minister (of state) for railways was not yet announced this am.

Clegg, being a Sheffield MP has taken a stand pro-Electrification, even doing costings, so is unlikely to backtrack on GW/MML schemes which at 1Bn each are dirt cheap.

Crossrail is politically needed as London has clout but the scheme is absurdly expensive, at 16Bn for only 6 miles of tunnel. It has also started.

It could probably cut several Bn's off the cost by building tube stations rather than  7 storey underground palaces (similar to Canary Wharf). Also, intergrating with PSE (Paddington Suburban Electrification) would give significant economies of scale and operation. As these Bn's would come off the Govt's minority contribution, not TfL's or Business, the percentage saving is considerable. I hope that they don't cut capacity (i.e platform lengths, alignment, signalling).

Fingers crossed,

OTC


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 17, 2010, 14:19:26
One of many articles proclaiming Conservative support for Crossrail:

http://www.newbusiness.co.uk/articles/travel-advice/government-back-crossrail (http://www.newbusiness.co.uk/articles/travel-advice/government-back-crossrail)

Though no wonder it's costing so much if the trains are going to be 2km long?  To quote the article: "Crossrail is a new 73-mile rail line that will carry 24 trains an hour during rush hour in ten 200-metre long carriages."  :o


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: willc on May 17, 2010, 21:40:14
It's probably still cheaper than Boris's new Routemaster bus for London. Estimated development bill for five prototypes is ^7.8m. No Tory cuts there then.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/may/17/london-mayor-buses-project-criticised


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: Electric train on May 18, 2010, 06:50:59
It's probably still cheaper than Boris's new Routemaster bus for London. Estimated development bill for five prototypes is ^7.8m. No Tory cuts there then.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/may/17/london-mayor-buses-project-criticised
Wonder if they are designed, built and marketed in Eton  ;D


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 19, 2010, 20:51:34
From the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8692298.stm):

Quote
Crossrail links to Abbey Wood and Maidenhead 'in doubt'

London Mayor Boris Johnson has raised doubts over the ^16bn Crossrail project going ahead "in its entirety".
He said branches to Abbey Wood, in south-east London, and Maidenhead, in Berkshire, could be threatened under the new government.
Transport secretary Philip Hammond has already said the project may not be completed by 2017.
Work has been under way since January 2009 on the route running from Berkshire to Essex across London.
The 72-mile (116km) rail line will connect Maidenhead with Shenfield in Essex passing through the West End and Canary Wharf. There will also be a link to Heathrow Airport.
Speaking at City Hall, Mr Johnson said he could come under pressure from the new government to modify the scheme and do away with the spurs.
"They would try to de-scope. I would be fighting very very hard to protect the project in its entirety. It's absolutely vital that we mount a Stalingrad-like defence of the London transport settlement. It's fascinating, the degree of ignorance about Crossrail still in the minds of the public and indeed in the minds of many of our important political colleagues. The more we can explain why it matters to London, the better."
In the run up to the elections, the Conservatives had come under fire when they refused to guarantee the funding of the project.
But on Friday Mr Hammond pledged his commitment to the project but warned it was essential to keep costs as low as possible although he said he could not guarantee the route would be ready on time by 2017.
The mayor said delaying the completion will add to the costs and not reduce it in the long-term.
Hotel groups have warned the mayor that his plans to make them pay an extra ^66 per sq m if new hotels are built near the route could harm the tourism industry.
The Mayor's office said its impact on tourism should be minimal, adding that for an initial three-year period there will be a 20% reduction in the charge on new developments.


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: woody on May 19, 2010, 23:01:55
From the Independent,
The new Transport Secretary Philip Hammond claimed yesterday that we are going to have to  'sweat assets better'.
 Having ruled out a third runway at Heathrow, the new Government is committed to a new high-speed rail line. Mr Hammond said he did not think it would be difficult to get private funding for the line. "Over the coming years we are going to have to learn to do things differently. As far as transport is concerned we are going to have to sweat the assets we have much better. We are going to have to look at new and innovative ways of funding capital expenditure."

 http://www.anhourago.co.uk/show.aspx?l=4177886&d=501


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: Electric train on May 20, 2010, 17:50:15
"we are going to have to sweat the assets we have much better" so they become a real problem in 10 years time and will cost 3 times as much to renew and failures will increase as a result of the sweating ....................

The Tory mantra don't change much from the days of Marples and his hench man Beeching ............... "We will end the war on motorists. Motoring has got to get greener but the car is not going to go away."


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: eightf48544 on May 21, 2010, 11:57:29
Latest gossip from fairly reliable sources suggest LHR as Western terminus for Crossrail. With 10 tph?

Bang goes the Relief line service from Taplow, Burnham, Langley Iver and West Drayton.


Title: Re: Conservatives vow to build Crossrail
Post by: Electric train on May 21, 2010, 17:04:07
Latest gossip from fairly reliable sources suggest LHR as Western terminus for Crossrail. With 10 tph?

Bang goes the Relief line service from Taplow, Burnham, Langley Iver and West Drayton.

At this stage I would put it down to just that gossip, as I doubt very much if the Crossrail senior team, DoT and the Treasury have really had chance to sit around a table to look at the scheme and an implications of changing it



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