Great Western Coffee Shop

Less than a year ago, you could pick up timetable book E - which included all the FGW services I used: Portsmouth, Severn Beach Line and Weymouth.  All in one handy book which fitted nicely into my laptop bag.

Then they put them in separate books, which was fair enough as you only picked up the books you needed.

But now they've put Cardiff to Portsmouth in a pocket timetable.  The only problem is that is is far too large to be practical.

The old book:
(http://brucebolt.com/images/misc/DSCF2145.JPG)

The new pocket timetable, next to a 12" ruler:
(http://brucebolt.com/images/misc/DSCF2146.JPG)

When open, the whole timetable is 77cm (30 inches) long.  Try using this whilst on a train.  Its longer than the table (if you're lucky enough to get one).  I got some very strange looks whilst attempting to utilise this timetable whilst stood in the Ticket Hall at Temple Meads yesterday.  You can't even partially unfold it as the way it is folded makes it impossible to actually read the full timetable for one train.

Perhaps this is an attempt to force us into printing our own timetables at home?

Strangely, the Cardiff to Bristol timetable still comes in a book format.

Agreed, I can't stand pocket timetables! Give me a heavy book will all times in one place anyday. The "colleague handbook" is a good publication, what with Paddington station plan, shame it's only available to staff and SX

The colleague guide is the same as the timetable book that you can buy now.
Although it has an insert with the colleague guide that explains some changes and includes the weekday working for Paddington.

I too was disappointed that FGW turned the Cardiff-Portsmouth timetable booklet into a pocket timetable and hope that FGW get some feedback and turn it back into a booklet format for the May TT change.

As Ollie says you can purchase the FGW complete timetable book from mainline stations which is well layed out and contains lots of additional information not found in pocket timetables.

Why are we calling mini timetables pocket timetables?

The origianl timetable bookLETS (not books), were pocket timetables.

I would prefer a return to the pocket timetable format, with mini timetables for individual routes.

Or you could lease a friends photographic memory when needing to know train times... My friends think it's very handy (and also rather sad) that I can tell them which train they want, arrival and departure times and occasionally type of train used... ;D

Also would you say that i've gone a step too far if I can remember the exact prices for the tickets almost all journeys I make...??! ;D I will say though, when asking for a ticket the Guard isn't expecting... some of them find it very helpful that you know the price and type of ticket you require... ;D

Um ................ Er .........................

Well caught moonrakerz. I think Btline has made a good point on what is a pocket timetable and what is a mini timetable so I will clarify what I meant based on using these two terms:
I too was disappointed that FGW turned the Cardiff-Portsmouth pocket timetable into a mini timetable.

Well, just try putting one of what you suggest is a 'pocket' timetable into a pocket then. They tend to stick out of pockets in my experience, unlike what I, and others, consider to be a pocket timetable. And, insane though it is, folded up that Portsmouth-Cardiff one will fit into a pocket.

I have never in my life heard anyone talk about a mini timetable - except in this thread.

And you had better get used to pocket timetables - they are a lot cheaper to produce than the booklets and FGW is, as someone put it to me recently, 'hell bent' on reducing costs across the board.

Pocket timetables fit perfectly in my jacket pocket.

But I'm not stating opinion - the old A, B, C etc "books" (FGW called booklets books for some reason) are "pocket" timetables - fact. Designed to fit into jacket pockets.

The new ones are "mini" timetables.

I agree, personally I thought that pocket timetable/book(let) E was absolutely perfect.

From FGW: (http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=3776)

The Customer Panel reps are meeting with FGW in early February to discuss the May TT production - so I'll take this request forward. Thanks for the feedback.....

Thanks for that, maybe they could produce a small circulation of books B & E as these in my opinion were the most useful!

Unlikely - they are trying to save money!

Charge a pound for it?

Just to prove that 'mini timetables' are nothing new, take a look at these pages:

http://www.srpublicity.co.uk/brs/brs21.htm#t3

http://www.srpublicity.co.uk/timelines/tl04.htm

Well clearly I led a linguistically-deprived childhood - but how on earth you can say those things 'fitted' in a pocket, when an inch or more sticks out of the top of a bog-standard jacket pocket, is a whole new definition of something fitting. Whereas what I will continue to call a pocket timetable most assuredly does fit in its entirety in a pocket, in a jacket or trousers, come to that.

But calling things by a different name (especially when that name actually describes something else) causes confusion.

D/M - why should we have to pay for pocket timetables, something mot other TOCs give out for free - and indeed have done so for years!

Putting the terms pocket timetables and mini timetables through Google produces the following results totals: pocket, 23,500; mini 1,190. So you tell me whose description is the right one.

The latter figure does include that website bignosemac so proudly cited, but oddly, this one, offering the same merchandise, seems to have slipped under the radar http://britishrailwaybooks.co.uk/wtt/publicwtt/brpocket.html

And you don't need to worry about paying for them, because they won't be producing them, for the same reason they would rather run a Turbo than an HST off-peak on the Cotswold Line.

Hmm. So that's 1,190 occasions on which the term "mini timetable" has never been used... ;)

What I said was I had never heard it used. And I'll continue to refer to pocket timetables and timetable booklets in the terms that I understand them if that's alright with you, oh mighty inspector.

A difference of opinion, an alternate point of view, questioning a post, you say 'potato'..........etc, are all allowed you know, oh mighty willc.  :P ;) :D

Just so - and it appears that most of the rest of the world prefers not to use the description mini for pocket timetables, even if a handful of people here seem to believe the rest of us should adopt it.

How about a compromise: We could call the larger sized timetables with staples or a small spine a 'pocket timetable', and the smaller ones that unfold a 'mini-pocket timetable'?

Either that or we could decide that it really doesn't matter...  ::)

Look - HSTs, as we all call them, are actually not "high speed" trains. (because they don't run above 140 mph, or whatever the "benchmark" is)

However, despite this fact, I still refer to them as HSTs, as that is how they are known to most.

At the same time, I could call the Javelins "HSTs", as they ARE high speed, but this would cause ambiguity and confusion. So I don't. I just go with the flow - like everyone else!

So even though the FGW pocket timetables do not fit into every pocket on this earth doesn't mean you should suddenly call them by something different!

Anyway, back to the advs vs disadvs of the mini timetables...

I thought the benchmark is 125mph?

No, as the GWML, ECML and WCML aren't classified as HSLs. Only HS1 is.

Disadvantage with mini timetables is that they tear very easily.

Despite South Eastern "High Speed" services being timed at, yep you guessed it, 125mph. So much ambition...

Not quite as simple as that - even the International Union of Railways (UIC) say there's no definitive definition! Interestingly the UIC (who should know what they're talking about) seem to say that 125mph (200kph) does indeed qualify as a High Speed Line/Train - to quote their website: http://www.uic.org/spip.php?article971 (http://www.uic.org/spip.php?article971)

b) High Speed lines shall comprise:

          o Specially built High Speed lines equipped for speeds generally equal to or greater than 250 km/h,
          o Specially upgraded High Speed lines equipped for speeds of the order of 200 km/h,

Now, I would argue that the WCML has been specially upgraded for 200kph running in so much as the route has been equipped with TASS equipment allowing the Pendolino's and Super Voyagers to tilt, though the UIC actually state that HS1 is the only High Speed line in the UK.

And quite apart from anything else, HSTs were designed back in the 1970s and High Speed Train is the name that BR gave them at the time. I don't know if the UIC definition of "high speed" was current then or not, but regardless of any pedantry, HSTs is what they're called!

That's my point, and how it is relevant to timetable booklets/mini timetables!

Umm...... you did bring up HSTs on this thread Btline  ;)

Yes. And? I brought them up because it is:


as I say above. What's the problem?

Btline, I've got a project for you... get hold of a dictionary and look up the word "tenuous". Then tell me why I've asked you to look it up  ;) :-*

Nice bedsheets!  ;D

Don't moan at me, moan at the inspector for making that pointless comment!

While putting out the recycling earlier, I disposed of a number of timetables which had expired in December. One in particular caught my eye. It was a folding one, of modest dimensions, for services between Banbury and London operated by a certain saintly operator.

And what did it say across the top, in letters bigger than the company's own logo?

Pocket Timetable.

How could that clever Mr Shooter get it so wrong?

Erm, that would be me... ???
I have a vague feeling I'm being slandered but I can't quite work out why. Must consult my legal team in the morning... ;)