Great Western Coffee Shop

Hi All,

I value your opinion, yesterday I went to the ticket office at Cardiff Central, I had already done some background checks but I took my nephew with me for a small train trip and I was a bit distracted.

I asked for the 5 cheapest tickets to Newcastle going up in Febuary and return 2 days later. The ticket clerk said there were no cheap tickets, I said please try splitting at Birmingham.

I also said that I would like 2 people together and a 3 rather than 1 being on the own. The ticket clerk said that were any of the people over 55 I said yes 1 was over 55. She then said that there was an offfer on the Cardiff to Birmingham route for over 55 to travel for 25 pounds I said if that was the cheapest way then fine. After buying the tickets today I noticed that the 4 Cardiff to Birmingham cost 11.50 single each way. Okay it is only 2 pounds but it shows again how crazy it is and not everybody can work these fares out.

When I asked today about it I was told it would cost 10 pounds to change the ticket or I could fill in a complaint form, but I thought the Ticket clerk was trying to be helpfull and I dont really want to get them in trouble.

I value the forum members views

Basset

Maybe those ^11.50 tickets weren't showing yesterday?

I would definitely complain. Ticket office staff are obliged to sell you the cheapest ticket valid for your journey. The CDF-BHM Adv singles at ^11.50 each way should've been offered for all in your party if 5 were available at the time you booked. A bit naughty to offer you a Club 55 fare that was more expensive than the advance. As you were travelling in a group with others on fixed train/time tickets there was little need for a more flexible ticket for one in the party.

Yes it is only ^2 difference, but it's your ^2, not Arriva Trains Wales'.


And ChrisB......eh?

Advance tickets bought today might not have been available yesterday. Hence the advice given then would have been correct.

If there were five of you, then you could have saved two of the fares by asking for a GroupSave ticket.

The Fares Manual even shows advance fares on that route as being valid on GroupSave.

Perhaps buy your tickets online in the future - then you can easily see what is available.

Groupsave isn't available online....

Trainline powered sites, e.g. FGW, offer it.  You have to enter 4 adults and select GROUP SAVE 4 as the Railcard.

Oh thanks - that's news to me!

But what about 3 people? Isn't Groupdsave available - i.e. 2 pay & 1 goes free?

AFAIK groupsave is not valid on ATW services, definitely not valid on XC.

Ok. I think there's a missing comma that is confusing you. "After buying the tickets, today I noticed......"

Hi,

Wanted to do it online but I wanted to ask about seating did not want the system to seat 1 person on they own.

Recieved about 49 tickets and the receipt was about 3 feet long only had time this morning to sort out and check. ATW site today still showing 11.50 fare. I just did not registar when the ticket clerk said 25 pound over 55 and she was looking and had allready booked the 2 people and had seen the fare

Basset

"Group Save 3" in the railcard option

It's worth noting that the 11.50 is an advance ticket, and so I wouldn't recommend buying it for this journey. After all, if your return from Newcastle to Birmingham is late then it won't be valid, as it is a separate ticket. Neither ATW nor XC would have any obligation to pass your ticket or compensate you. Whether or not they would is another matter.

That means you either have to leave an extra long margin at New St, and probably end up waiting there for ages (and thus inconveniencing the rest of your party), or spend the first part of the journey south stressing that your train doesn't get delayed.

Is that really worth it for ^2? Haven't you been caught before by trying to save a bit of money using advance tickets when your return journey was disrupted, (as was quite likely given it was after an inbound flight)? Or am I thinking of someone else?


   

Hi,
It is not the ^2 it the principal of going to the station and asking for the cheapest fare to and from Newcastle.

I could have paid ^116.50 per person anytime single or I knew you could split at Birmingham and take a chance allowing 20 mins and the cost would be 11.50 advance single to Birmingham and 21.50 advance single to Newcastle.

Coming back I have allowed 1 hour at Birmingham but what is still annoying is i could still buy today a 27.50 advance single from Newcastle to Cardiff change at Birmingham and would not have to worry if train was late!!

I could also have traveled to Bristol airport and gone easyjet still available for less then what I have paid advance tickets on the train and after reading all the reports on this site about XC I wish I had

Basset

With respect, it seems as though you didn't do sufficient research before booking?

Ha,

Does anybody know a online course which is being run for potential customers to study on the different Fares so they feel they are not being done everytime they wish to travel!!!!!

]
With respect*, ChrisB, the 'system' can be the problem, not the user 'doing sufficient research'.

I can be fairly anal and thorough when I book tickets with splits but I still get caught out occasionally, and pay more than I could've, despite doing sufficient research. At the very least we can expect (or can we?) ticket office staff to sell us the cheapest tickets for the journeys we have requested. As basset44 points out, it's not the ^2 it's the principal.

And this for basset44: Much as I agree with a lot of the sentiments regarding the state of affairs at CrossCountry, I don't think you'd've got from Cardiff to Newcastle via Bristol on Easyjet for less than the train ticket costs you paid. You'd have to get to Bristol Temple Meads (^15.80ea if by train), then Bristol Airport (^9ea on the coach), then from Newcastle Airport (up to ^5.80ea on the Metro). Anything more than a small rucksack and add on another ^18ea. Now look at the 'cost' of those ^20-^25 each way Easyjet tickets from Bristol to Newcastle....... even if you drive to Bristol Airport you're still looking at petrol costs, bridge tolls and up to ^27 for 2 days parking.

*hate that turn of phrase

I was referring to Bassett44's comparison twixt air & rail, not within the rail fares.

But seeing the figures you produce above, I'm also of the opinion that, bar this ^2 difference, he probably got the best deal going at the time of booking.

So my comment is withdrawn anyway.

Taking a slightly lighthearted view of a very serious topic, I can't help feeling that the fare system is so complex at times that someone should offer a degree level course in understanding it, and how to get the best legitimete fare for the journey you want to make.

I know from personal experience that even some regular tickets, bought from the web to travel from A to B on a specific train, but with a more general but not universal usabilty (eg "off peak") can cause problems with staff not realising that they've valid on the train in question - and if even the staff don't always know, then what chance has Jo Public?  I think it is unreasonable to expect a member of the public to be able to research and understand something that's so complex that even the staff ("they were probably just contractors brought in to help") don't.   And I think a system that's so complex will be very prone to result in people tinking they have been "done" when they find a cheaper alternative.

The original question asked "should I complain about the two quid?" There's a conundrum here - and one I've often been in.  On one hand - look - it's only two quid, it'll cost a lot more in your time and the TOCs to sort it out, so just let it go.  But on the other hand, by saying "hey - you have an issue here" you are raising, and hopefully helping to sort out - a niggle / slip in the system that may effect many others too (but they don't know they're being badly advised), and perhaps for bigger fare differences. My view - I'm doing a lot of them in this post - is that you should raise the issue if it relates to a fare that it's natural or common to buy at the station you're at ... so in the current case, it relates to a fare from Cardiff, bought at Cardiff, and should be brought up. Had the issue been something to do with two pounds saving not given on a Birmingham to Newcastle ticket bought at Cardiff, I would say you should not raise it if it was bought at a normal ticket office window, but from a travel centre that advertises and sells iteself as "book tickets for any rail journey here" in its promotion, then you should.

I think I have made my answer as complex as the fare system!

Even when the ticket office give you a restriction card, it can still be confusing to the customer as there can easily be exceptions.

I also believe that the new fares simplification (i.e. the three types of ticket thing) has caused more confusion.  Why isn't there just a standard time for it to become Off-Peak across all TOCs on all trains?

And why can (to quote directly from the NFM) "Holders of 16-25, Senior, Disabled Persons, HM Forces and Family & Friends Railcards, New Deal Photocards and Inter-Rail (Code 70) Cards travelling with Off-Peak tickets may use ANY Virgin train service, as long as the journey being made is priced by Virgin Trains".  How would someone off the street know whether a journey is priced by Virgin Trains?

Why can I break my journey on some tickets described as "Off Peak Single" but not others with the same name?  (Although I doubt joe public would realise that it is even possible to break journeys - I always get blank faces when I tell people about how I visited so many places on a simple return ticket)

I agree, The simplification didn't actually make the old complicated system clearer, it just hid the complexities of the old system under new names (ie a name liek "saver" or "cheap day" suggests restrictions but doesn't specifiy what they are - Passnger is them prompted to find out.  Names like "off peak suggest that there is a standard peak but that is not the case some tickets have an evening restriction and others do not)

Thanks,

Looks like I leave it this time, just go better preparred so it will not happen again.

Yes been caught out on advance tickets from Airports just now book them and allow lots of time, have even booked 2 on the same day still works out cheaper than paying anytime single.

You can actually book Cardiff to Bristol Airport for 22.80  anytime return just if anybody needs to know.

Once again thanks for your thoughtsi on this

Basset

CDF-Bristol Airport Bus. Well you live and learn, just goes to prove that I get caught out when trying to find cheapest options!  :-[