Great Western Coffee Shop

I think a new route between Exeter and Plymouth to allow this speed.

Definitely the latter. Let Bristol/Cardiff trains run on the former. And West of England trains on the latter. Leaves the Bristol - Exeter line for XC services.

the record for bristol tm- london paddington is currently 1 hour 33 seconds and i belive most services do it in 1 hour 15 mins?

exeter to plymouth and beyond is the part that needs improvement

1h39 is the quicker scheduled off peak journey time!

Would the canal between Reading and Pewsey cause any problems.

yeh i wasnt sure on that one hence the question mark, but the fastest an in service hst has done it is 1 hour 33 seconds

Do you mean 1 hour 33 minutes?

What - this one ?

(http://i46.tinypic.com/2ns8f3r.jpg)

Nice photo. The most remarkable feature of which is the complete indifference being shown by the two people on the barge given what is about to go past them. And don't tell me it crept up on them silently....

nope 30th of august 1984 1 hour 33 seconds...look it up

link please...... :D

its in a book but its also brought up on this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXNuGG9NhXo&feature=related at 5:40

Here are some interesting time for the Cornish Riviera Express from London Paddington to Penzance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornish_Riviera_Express

No, but the curves at Cofton would.

is that near Wellington Somerset then

Crofton, Wiltshire, missed the 'r'

And don't tell me it crept up on them silently.... In my experience unrebuilt WC/BB were pretty quite when running at any speed, very quite exhaust due to multiple blast pipes.

Nope 30th of august 1984 1 hour 33 seconds...look it up

Was that the special Top of the Pops Run? In which case it was a cut down set and did it in the course of the programme.

We watched it from our garge roof, it was going quite fast at Taplow!

However, to get back to subject first line to be 140 London Bristol and on to Exeter and Cardiff which would benefit XC as well. Berks and Hants to follow.

As reflex109 says it beyond Exeter that needs linespeed improvements.

oh really? well be fair i was just over a month old at the time and this book and film footage neglected to point this out, but shortened formation or not... the line is obv ok for that speed

I took relex109's advice and 'looked it up'. Very sparse information online about the 'Top of The Pops' (HST 43002) record run between Paddington and Bristol Temple Meads. Have found one source that claims the timing was 1h02m30s.

ok then it seems that there are no reliable sources but as 1 hour 33 seconds is average of over 110 mph im guessing unless it was cleared to run above line speed thats wrong

I found a web site  recording the trip between Paddington and Bristol Temple Meads

http://www.teachingzone.org/history.htm.

What is the Top speed of a 125, I found some web site stating 148 m.p.h

Guy

148 could well have been the top speed.

It was going like the clappers at Taplow. I think in less than 15 minutes from Padd which makes it around 90 mph average from standing start.

I think they had hoped to do it in the even hour.

Don't forget it was a lot easier then for the GM Western Region to say to his traffic, motive power,  S&T, civil and mechanical engineers can we do it?

OK lets go!

Although in our risk adverse culture we may say they were foolish, they were professional railwaymen their career would have been on the line if they'd made the decison to go for it if there was any shadow of doubt.

I hate the damn things but would be interesting to see how fast a 221 with tilt activated could do it

I've always thought that would be the most effective solution for the West Country services.

1. Rip out the interior of the Voyagers and put something decent in. (Solve smell too.)
2. Tilt enable Reading to Plymouth.
3. Run 5+4 sets to Plymouth, with one unit travelling onwards to Cornwall.

This would enable more effective use of rolling stock west of Plymouth (and thus more through trains) whilst maintaining capacity east of Plymouth. Tilt would give some decent journey time reductions, especially between Exeter and Plymouth, which would more than make up for the few minutes needed to couple/decouple at Plymouth.

The only drawback would be that the unit would operate as two separate units to Plymouth, requiring duplicate catering provision, TM's etc. Oh and the underfloor noise. But if it could cut half an hour off Plymouth to London that might be worth it.   

According to wikipedia: 148mph - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_43_(HST)  ;)

Please no.

Many of the Paddington - Penzance services convey passengers for Cornwall stations anyway, certainly in Summer the 1000 PNZ - PAD will arrive into Plymouth full and standing and leave in the same state. A 4/5 car super vomit couldn't cope with that.

This web site reports the max for a 221 is 125 m.p.h

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_221 with 4 or 5 car


Class 222

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_222 with 4 or 5 or 7 cars

Class 252
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_252

Class 253,254 and 255 all allocated to HST 125
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Classes_253,_254_and_255


I would like to try and see something like the following tested.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JetTrain

Guy

Very true !  On that day the steam special was running best part of an hour late, while we were waiting we were well entertained by two RAF Harriers and a Merlin - much noisier than Mr Bulleid's machine - the boat drivers didn't look at them either !

Erm ... even as a narrowboat 'driver', I'd always look up at the sound of a Merlin ... ! :o ;D

Ummm.....    Errr..........   not that sort of Merlin!   .......................     more like:- 3 of RTM 322      ;)

140mph! Great for some but you said it,sustained line speeds on a so called main of 55/65mph in the 21st west of Exeter to Plymouth are now little more than a joke.The problem is if you only speed up rail services from Exeter to Padddington as has historically happened places like Plymouth and Cornwall increasingly suffer from the perception of being remote by rail and you will simply encourage the development of domestic air links to the far south west which is not really desirable when a properly funded rail alternative is within reach.

But 155 mph-ing the route east of Exeter is (a) easier (b) will benefit more people than upping Exeter to Penzance by 10 - 20 mph here and there (c) could get London to Plymouth down to less than 2 hours 30 minutes - hardly remote (about the same as London to Worcester but about twice the distance).

I disagree, raising (on average) the linespeed of the berks & hants by 55% is not an easy task. I certainly wouldn't fancy doing 155mph on any of it!

Improvements in Devon & Cornwall would be far easier to achieve, shaving off some of the curvature in corners for example.

Yes but you dont have competition from Air links to Gatwick and London city airports from Worcester which could well intensify as the 21st century unfolds.Certainly I have seen the Plymouth to Exeter rail route refered to in the local press as "Plymouths victorian rail link to Exeter and the rest of Endland".You can also drive up the A38 dual carraigeway from Plymouth to Exeter(M5) in not much over half the rail journey time.It really is a matter of perception and something needs to be done about it if rail is to be taken seriously west of Exeter in the 21st century.

And you believe what the local rag spouts!!!

The one benefit of rail, as soon as it snows, the airports are instantly shut or you don't run the risk of sitting on Halden/Telegraph hill till the early hours ;)

Whenever I travel on trains heading to Cornwall i'm always impressed at the patronage, far from being devastated by the inconvenient air flights taking you a place 30 mins by train from London.

If the Government want to upgrade the line they could.

Just think what the Victorian did as far as the railways

You dont have to go back to the victorians.For those interested the 1935/36 Great Western Railway plans for a new route from Exminster to Newton Abbot bypassing Teignmouth and Dawlish are held at the Devon Record Office Archives at Sowton in Exeter under the following references.
Unfortunately the 2nd World War stopped these schemes progressing.
 
                     

                         Great Western Railway (Additional Powers)  QS/DP/860  1935
Contents:
1) Railway No 1 (Newton Abbot and Dawlish): via parishes of Kingsteignton, Bishopsteignton, Urban Districts of Teignmouth and Dawlish; length 8 ^ miles; commencing and terminating at junctions with South Devon Railway.
2)Bridge, River Diversions and Lands at Exeter: parish of Upton Pyne and Borough of Exeter.

Included are sections of intended works and published map showing 1).
Scale: 25" to the mile
Surveyor: R. Carpmael (Engineer)
Plans (pen, ink) and book of reference
 
                                         Great Western Railway.  QS/DP/868 1936                                     
Contents:
1) Railway No 2. (Dawlish and Exminster): via Urban District of Dawlish, parishes of Mamhead, Kenton, Powderham, Exminster; length 7^ miles; commencing at junction with railway No 1 (see QS/DP/860), terminating at junction with South Devon Railway; includes sections of railway and road diversions en route.
2) Lands at Totnes (and at Denham in County of Buckingham).
Scale: 25" to the mile
Surveyor: R. Carpmael (Engineer)
Plan (pen, ink) and book of reference
These documents are held at Devon Record Office


   The Great Western Railway had also at that time surveyed a new route onward from Newton Abbot bypassing Totnes as well as Dainton and Rattery Banks and re-joining the existing railway near Marley Tunnel to be engineered to a minimum 1 mile radius curvature for high speed.
  How times have changed.

Shame this did not get off the grounds

http://web.archive.org/web/20041026081304/www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/news/release.php?item=29

Brings back memories of the old FGW/FGWL website!

With reference to the 1935/36 Great Western Railway plans for a new route from Exminster to Newton Abbot, things had progressed to the point of actually buying and fencing off the necessary land but the land was eventually sold off post war in 1949 as by then the country was virtually bankrupt.Should imagine that such investment today would be prohibitively expensive as well,certainly in current economic circunstances anyway.By contrast the trunk road network in Devon and Cornwall has more or less been rebuilt to the detriment of the main line railway west of Exeter.To be honest I dont see nothing significantly changing this far south west railwaywise which is all very worrying as anything that stands still in the modern world is effectively going backwards.