Title: Full high-speed service launched, at London St Pancras (14/12/2009) Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 14, 2009, 23:58:41 From rail-news.com (http://rail-news.com/2009/12/14/full-high-speed-service-launched/):
Quote Gordon Brown, transport secretary Lord Adonis and Olympic gold medal winner Dame Kelly Holmes helped launch the UK^s first domestic high-speed rail service today at London St Pancras station. High Speed 1 now allows passengers to travel between Ashford and London in just 37 minutes (previously 83 minutes) and from London to Canterbury in 59 minutes, a huge reduction from the previous 102 minutes. Kelly Holmes who travelled on the one of the first trains, described the journey as ^really smooth^ and said ^It^s a great honour that SouthEastern has named a train after me^ before adding ^and to be 001, I have to say, is even better!^ Gordon Brown told the waiting press ^I hope this will be a blueprint for high-speed rail travel in the UK. Today^s event is a great example of the investment we need. Trains on time, trains of high standard and trains able to go faster.^ Lord Adonis said ^It is inconceivable that a generation from now that work will not have started on a north-south high-speed line.^ In 2012 HS 1 will speed passengers from London to the Olympic village at Stratford in just 7 minutes. Title: Re: Full high-speed service launched, at London St Pancras (14/12/2008) Post by: Henry on December 15, 2009, 06:25:57 Quite a mixed reaction from the commuter's http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8412699.stm Title: Re: Full high-speed service launched, at London St Pancras (14/12/2008) Post by: JayMac on December 15, 2009, 10:42:53 (Post removed as it quoted an edited post, and was left making no sense, cheers Henry ::) ) Title: Re: Full high-speed service launched, at London St Pancras (14/12/2008) Post by: paul7575 on December 15, 2009, 11:29:26 I see one of the comments refers to a ^1400 annual increase from Rochester, but when I looked it up it was ^700...
About ^3 per working day then... Which is pretty good indicator of what a bargain annual seasons are, as the Anytime return addon price is around ^8... Paul Title: Re: Full high-speed service launched, at London St Pancras (14/12/2008) Post by: ChrisB on December 16, 2009, 10:31:03 Mile for mile, the southeastern seasons are cheap anyway....a lot cheaper than the TOCs north of the Thames.
Title: Re: Full high-speed service launched, at London St Pancras (14/12/2008) Post by: Btline on December 16, 2009, 16:05:48 They keep saying that x minutes will be cut off the journey, but how about the y minutes added on to allow for a Tube journey from St Pancras?
And how will people afford it, esp during the credit crunch! As I have said all along - and what is backed up by the comments - many people are being disadvantaged by this new timetable as services are being cut and slowed down. It only benefits the rich. Title: Re: Full high-speed service launched, at London St Pancras (14/12/2008) Post by: devon_metro on December 16, 2009, 16:16:55 It only benefits the rich. Somebody working in the Kings Cross area will probably be rather pleased, whether they are rich or not. I do agree the non high speed timetable sounds fairly horrendous, however this high speed line is progress. Title: Re: Full high-speed service launched, at London St Pancras (14/12/2009) Post by: grahame on December 16, 2009, 18:37:54 South Eastern have reduced the other (3rd rail) services into Victoria.
Does this mean that there are now spare 3rd rail units in excess of timetable requirements? If so, could some be transferred to South West Trains to take over from the diesel turns running totally on the third rail routes? Could another run an extra commuter train from Southampton / Portsmouth to Brighton, releasing the diesel that runs into there just before 9 in the morning, and the one that leaves at 5 p.m.? Do you know what I am going to suggest as a good use for a couple of the extra Salisbury based diesel units, and the extra Bristol based one? It doesn't involve them going out of the area at all ... ;) Title: Re: Full high-speed service launched, at London St Pancras (14/12/2009) Post by: Steve Bray on December 16, 2009, 20:39:57 I decided to give myself a birthday treat today and travelled from Dorking to Canterbury via St Pancras. When I passed Ashford (albeit at about 12.25 and 2.40pm), there were quite a number of units in the sidings including at least 5 Javelin sets. My trains were on time, but pretty empty. Also the ticket barriers at St Pancras, both on the tube exit and on the South Eastern platforms, haven't quite worked out that St Pancras is now a legitimate route to travel to Canterbury, though I was told that 'this is being looked into'!
Title: Re: Full high-speed service launched, at London St Pancras (14/12/2009) Post by: paul7575 on December 17, 2009, 12:18:09 There were already 12 508s out of service even before the latest timetable change, however AIUI the more modern units are all earmarked for strengthening existing services from 8 to 10 or 12 car.
I've suggested already (as a Sussex RUS consultation comment) that using an FGW DMU as an essential contribution to Brighton peak capacity was a ridiculous concept... Paul Title: Re: Full high-speed service launched, at London St Pancras (14/12/2009) Post by: ChrisB on December 17, 2009, 14:36:20 Also the ticket barriers at St Pancras, both on the tube exit and on the South Eastern platforms, haven't quite worked out that St Pancras is now a legitimate route to travel to Canterbury, though I was told that 'this is being looked into'! That's a known problem which is being fixed.... Title: Re: Full high-speed service launched, at London St Pancras (14/12/2008) Post by: IndustryInsider on May 04, 2010, 22:03:37 They keep saying that x minutes will be cut off the journey, but how about the y minutes added on to allow for a Tube journey from St Pancras? And how will people afford it, esp during the credit crunch! As I have said all along - and what is backed up by the comments - many people are being disadvantaged by this new timetable as services are being cut and slowed down. It only benefits the rich. A hint in today's Metro that Btline might* be right... http://www.metro.co.uk/news/824624-140mph-train-service-is-reduced-after-complaints (http://www.metro.co.uk/news/824624-140mph-train-service-is-reduced-after-complaints) *I say 'might' because the Metro really does print some utter garbage on occasions! Title: Re: Full high-speed service launched, at London St Pancras (14/12/2009) Post by: paul7575 on May 04, 2010, 22:09:41 It's arguable that contrary to the media report, the service hasn't been reduced, as no trains have been cancelled. Putting on a single 6 car unit instead of two is a capacity change, but it isn't actually a service reduction, AIUI...
Paul Title: Re: Full high-speed service launched, at London St Pancras (14/12/2009) Post by: Electric train on May 04, 2010, 22:19:51 The Javelin's internally are nothing to write home about, a basic outer suburban 2 x 2 seating mainly airline style, there are not buffets and I have never seen a trolley service the dozen or so time I have used the trains to Ramsgate (hour 20 mins). They certainly romp to Ashford but then standard speed service for the rest of the journey.
The trains when operating in multiple require 2 train managers, SE are fastidious in checking the tickets on these services so I can see why they might want to cut the number of Units also they will now have completed all the inservice test running so can afford to stable some units Title: Re: Full high-speed service launched, at London St Pancras (14/12/2009) Post by: John R on May 04, 2010, 22:37:52 I'm sure if they are not all needed in Kent then a few could be transferred to the East Coast or West Coast and enable a useful cascade to begin. eg, How many units would be needed to replace the Birmingham to Scotland Voyagers? Would need a bit of a reconfiguration internally though.
Title: Re: Full high-speed service launched, at London St Pancras (14/12/2009) Post by: IndustryInsider on May 04, 2010, 23:47:11 I'm sure if they are not all needed in Kent then a few could be transferred to the East Coast or West Coast and enable a useful cascade to begin. eg, How many units would be needed to replace the Birmingham to Scotland Voyagers? Would need a bit of a reconfiguration internally though. And fitment of tilting equipment if they were to keep to the current schedules on the WCML... Title: Re: Full high-speed service launched, at London St Pancras (14/12/2009) Post by: paul7575 on May 05, 2010, 10:33:07 They have only reduced 3 return services from 12 to 6 car, according to posts elsewhere.
So 3 spare units isn't really going to allow a useful service anywhere else. Especially as the Kent RUS already suggests longer 395 services and other destinations on the 'via Ashford' routes. It may be the timetable planners have just got the balance of north Kent to south east Kent capacity wrong... Paul Title: Re: Full high-speed service launched, at London St Pancras (14/12/2009) Post by: Electric train on May 05, 2010, 11:54:24 And it is early days
Title: Re: Full high-speed service launched, at London St Pancras (14/12/2009) Post by: moonrakerz on May 05, 2010, 14:03:13 ...........the service hasn't been reduced, as no trains have been cancelled. Putting on a single 6 car unit instead of two is a capacity change, but it isn't actually a service reduction............... Paul That is a true Politician's answer ! Title: Re: Full high-speed service launched, at London St Pancras (14/12/2009) Post by: Timmer on May 29, 2010, 14:35:17 Interesting article on the Telegraph website by Andrew Gilligan that passengers in Kent are still very unhappy with the recently introduced HS service. Lets hope the new coalition government takes note before charging on ahead with new HS projects:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/7776341/For-most-of-us-high-speed-rail-is-anything-but.html Quote The Javelin service from Kent to London, which started last year, was described by its operator, Southeastern Trains, as "one of the most significant milestones in the history of Britain's railways". The then transport secretary, Lord Adonis, said it would "transform the journeys of large numbers of rail passengers". That, at least, is true. At a cost ^ to them, and to the public purse ^ of billions of pounds, large numbers of rail passengers in Kent have seen their service transformed into the worst they have ever known. One local MP says that the service on his route is the slowest it has been since 1927. People's fury has been manifest in demonstrations, petitions, Commons debates, and an unprecedented "rail summit" by the county council ^ whose Cabinet member for transport, Nick Chard, says Kent's rail service needs to be "put back on track". Fares on the new service are between 10 and 80 per cent higher than on the old one. From some of the stations they serve, the "high-speed" Javelins are actually slower than the previous trains. And even where they are faster, they bring Kent commuters to places they do not want to go. The vast majority of people there work in the City or West End. The old trains went to Victoria, Cannon Street or Charing Cross ^ on the doorstep. The high-speed line goes to St Pancras, requiring tedious transfers by Tube or bus. Quote Unsurprisingly, therefore, just 15 per cent of commuters from north Kent and the Thanet coast have switched to the new service, according to the watchdog Passenger Focus. Even in the rush hour, some of the high-speed trains on this route run more than half-empty. The brave new world has been such a flop that Southeastern has been forced to cut the number of coaches on each train by half. So, in a desperate attempt to drive people on to its white elephant, Southeastern has sabotaged the trains that passengers actually use. The fastest off-peak service on the "old" line from Ashford to London used to take exactly an hour. At one stage, it was non-stop. It now takes an hour and 20 minutes, and stops seven times. Some other Kentish stations have seen their peak services on the "old" lines cut by as much as 60 per cent. And every passenger on the existing service has had their fares raised above inflation to pay for the high-speed train, even if they live nowhere near it. Title: Re: Full high-speed service launched, at London St Pancras (14/12/2009) Post by: ChrisB on May 29, 2010, 14:50:59 Yup - pretty accurate - to allow people to adjust, the previous timetable on the original lines should have been retained & workers would have realised a new area of London was available to work in. The service would have then evolved as workers shifted mode of transport across to HiSpeed.
Title: Re: Full high-speed service launched, at London St Pancras (14/12/2009) Post by: Btline on May 30, 2010, 00:11:08 I still don't see why people are surprised! Why would people pay A LOT more for something that in many cases is slower, and at best slightly quicker!?
Title: Re: Full high-speed service launched, at London St Pancras (14/12/2009) Post by: Electric train on May 30, 2010, 09:05:47 I often catch a HS1 train from St P into bits of Kent at around 08:30 the inbound trains are quite well used, not full and standing but busy enough. It is a mistake to say the service is failing, it might not be quite at the expectations of SE trains.
Title: Re: Full high-speed service launched, at London St Pancras (14/12/2009) Post by: moonrakerz on May 30, 2010, 11:22:13 My daughter lives in Rochester and has a choice of three routes into London. HS1 to St P, or conventional to Victoria or Charing X/Waterloo East.
She goes up to London fairly frequently, luckily her employer pays the fare ! Most people who commute into town just cannot afford the premium if they are paying out of their own pocket. She rates the St P service as good Victoria as fair Charing X as awful She, and many others, are asking why they have to pay a premium for a good service, surely they should get a discount for using the other routes ? Although the HS1 is faster into "London" she has found that most of her visits are reached more quickly by using the slower service into town, with less tube/bus after the train. Title: Re: Full high-speed service launched, at London St Pancras (14/12/2009) Post by: paul7575 on May 30, 2010, 17:43:34 Pretty scary typo in Gilligan's article though. I reckon that 80% :o has to be 30%. At least he's correct in saying fares have increased by a range from 10% upwards; even most railway mags were getting this completely wrong most of last year.
The other thing that bugs me is how the media generally quote the premium as ^8 a day, but that is only true for commuters who buck the trend and buy an Anytime return every working day. As most of us realise, season ticket holders can generally expect to pay an effective daily rate of about half the price (or less) of an Anytime return Paul This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |