Great Western Coffee Shop

With all the hype about providing more seats, as of today, only 2 HST diagrams exist.

1223 and 1523 Plymouth - Edinburgh/Leeds.

How Cross Country can justify this I don't know. Lets hope this breaches franchise agreements, and they are removed from degrading the service even further, if that is even possible.

Edit: I apologise for how Daily Mail the topic title sounds, too many hours spent on knackered out Voyagers in need of some TLC but run by a company cutting costs left right and centre

Eh? Do they run ECS from Neville Hill to Plymouth, are there no southbound HSTs?

Sad indeed. If they aren't going to use their other HSTs please can they give them to a TOC who will which could then free up some units for use elsewhere.

Well yeh, the southbound workings run, however couldn't remember off the top of my head

Hence why I no longer use XC... they are a bluddy disgrace to the first order...! >:(

Any trip I take now up north I do from Westbury Via Reading and then onto Banbury with FGW and then pick up a Wrexham & Shropshire Service ;D

Sorry, misread....you did say diagram and not service.

Over the past few weeks I was hoping to post a link to the new Winter AXC timetables on their website like I have done with FGW and SWT: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=5676.0

BUT I can't as they aren't on their website! Not a lot to ask is it.

To make matters worse, this probably means that overcrowding will return to what were diagrams with 2 voyagers on them allowed to take place because of the hst's. These will no doubt revert so single voyager formation causing more problems. Disgusting way fo running a ranchise but what do we know? We are only passengers that try to use the services

This is the link on XC's own website to their pocket timetables.
http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/Find_a_train/Pocket_timetables.aspx (http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/Find_a_train/Pocket_timetables.aspx)
Click on it and you will see a page with no timetable information!  Seems a good way to increase ridership and therefore XC's takings making it easier for them to pay the DfT premium.

Ne t/t starts today but its a secret. you couldn't make it up.

Terrible. Sniffy email sent to cross country:

ENQUIRY
"Quite simple, where are the pdf files on your website for the new pocket timetables?

One suspects the lack of them is another penny pinching reduction in service from Arriva Cross Country. Whose benefit are you running a train service for? It sure don't seem to be the passengers."

 Profit - shareholders, are they purposely trying to turn passengers away ?

Bus driving amateurs...I will again be going from York to Falmouth via KX Padd >:(

Im shocked that they have been allowed to do this!

Will it perhaps only be for the winter time table and once the summer starts, they will reintroduce them all?

Or will they surrender their HSTs?

Someone posted on here that their Franchise says the "extra seats" have to be in place by Summer 2010, so nothing stopping them withdrawing the HSTs through the Winter and bringing them back for the Summer without breaking any agreements.

I would have hoped all sets would be running for Christmas/New Year period, but who knows.

Apart from that, you can't blame XC for putting Voyagers on if demand is lower and it is more cost effective.  Once again business economics, whether you love or loath Voyagers.

That will be the acid test. If they're all parked up in sidings from this Friday onwards whilst old grannies are clambering over each other for seats on a 4-car Voyager, I will have to resort to using Btline's favourite word - Appalling!  :(

The franchise terms as available from the Dft website state quite clearly that the capacity improvements are to be in place from 30 June 2009. I can find no mention of a variation in terms to allow Arriva Cross Country to withdraw 3xHST sets from the train fleet. However I am just a lay person and don't pretend to understand all the legalese in Franchise Documents. I'm sure AXC are not deliberately breaking their franchise agreement as that could trigger a remedial notice. They may have requested a variation in terms from the DfT, although this seems unlikely as Andrew Adonis is on record as saying "we do not re-negotiate franchises".

From what I've experienced first hand I'd say that the majority of the time the HST's are hauling fresh air, with a lot more trough than peaks throughout the diagram.
They are more expensive to lease and to pay track access for than a Voyager and also more awkward to rescue in the event of a failure. They're less flexible with regard to stepping up as only NE/SW axis crews can work them and that they can't go South of Reading at present.
My understanding is that in the next few weeks the XC HSTs are going to be remarshalled to remove a coach.
Loathed as they are, the Voyagers are the core fleet and that's not going to change, the only development I see in the near future is a possible swap with East Coast of the HSTs for their 180s on lease.
Sorry to sound like the XC boy I am, and I do love HSTs, but if they're not making financial sense then really the company don't have a lot of options.

The problem is there IMO.  They may be timed to fulfill requirements between Birmingham and Leeds, but there are then overcrowded voyagers in the South-West that are crying out for HST service.

True, but then the trains would be empty at the opposite end. Whilst there are obviously those who enjoy HST travel, a double-set Voyager is a lot more flexible if used correctly and joined or split in the right location to manage passenger flow.
Unfortunately when given the choice of a full Voyager that gets exceedingly busy for one hour out of it's nine or ten hour trip or a half empty HST that fills up for one hour then they're gonna go for the cheaper option out of the two.

I don't think is stated quite clearly at all really. The ITT (what they were originally asked to do) includes June 2010.

"The Bidder may provide the increase in capacity in steps, with the full requirement to be provided by June 2010 at the latest. An interim minimum increase in capacity must be provided from December 2008"

The franchise agreement, which is what they offered to do, and the DfT agreed with, does then suggest 2009.

Either way, there is no way they'll have withdrawn HST diagrams without DfT's tacit approval.

Paul

I haven't seen a double voyager for a few years, do you still get them? I've been on a fair few 4-car sets that had enough passengers for two....

Demand lower in Christmas? Is it really business economics?

If people have a bad travelling experience, they won't be back.

IIRC the 19:44 Bristol Temple Meads - Plymouth Service Splits at Bristol Temple Meads having come from Up North...! Not sure if someone can confirm that...? ;)

Double Voyagers make it to Bournemouth fairly regularly. Even more so at weekends at the moment, when they only run 2 hourly.

Getting back to the main point though, who's to say they haven't chosen this week to take the trains out for some sort of major maintenance. For all anyone knows they could be back in use next week...

Paul

Yes, front 4 continue to Plymouth, rear 4 go on the 2000 to Manchester

Last January I travelled on a double voyager up from Cornwall to Birmingham. Only the front half was in use from Penzance but the rest was brought into use at Plymouth and thank goodness it was because it was packed after Plymouth!

This is a stupid idea. Remember that the HST use was not just to provide 5 8 car trains, but to allow an additional 5 Voyagers to be made double. But only 4 HSTs ever ran at a time, XC gave 5 Voyagers to VT and now they are not running all the HSTs.

Whenever I've seen the HSTs, they've been very busy!

Appalling.

Really the whole thing is down to very poor marketing. If you, as an operator, are lucky enough to have three daily 125 sets at your disposal on very long distance journeys, then sell it...use the buffet/hot food facility. We appear to assume that train travellers are comparing with buses (OK it is Arriva after all) but surely if you and family are planning the York to Exeter or Newcastle to Birmingham trip, the perceptance that there will be a cafe/bar/buffet/even restaurant facility on board on those "special" trains will win passengers.
OK that is not the concept as presently put forward (yep they are a bus company) but surely they are all missing a trick.
Advertising is all...can't you see it..."Visit your son/granma/sister/lover etc etc...sit back and relax with an at table hot snack blah blah"...how many hours?
Bunch of bl++dy useless, pair-it-to-the-bone amateurs >:(

No it wasn't - becasue when the 5 HSTs were delivered 5 additonal 221s were released back from XC to Virgin West Coast.

Paul

Exactly, as I point out on my post! ;)

I haven't seen a double voyager for a few years, do you still get them? I've been on a fair few 4-car sets that had enough passengers for two....
[/quote]

Not too sure where you live Bemmy but there are platform restrictions for Voyagers in the West Country, max of eight vehicles in public use West of Exeter and a max of seven in public use West of Plymouth, hence the lack of double sets in the far West. I believe there are services that double up at Bristol, the PLY-DEE springs to mind.
Dubious about double sets in Bournemouth, even with the service being halved to two hourly at the moment due to the engineering at Southampton. The 1300 BMH-MAN on Sunday just gone was a four car if I remember rightly. Not wanting to strain my mind too much at this time of night but I'd hope that any sets released due to the Soton tunnel works were used as strengthening elsewhere.
As for HSTs at Bournemouth there'd need to be some serious remarshalling of the sets to get them South of Reading at the moment so I'm stuck with Voyagers.

Double sets of Voyagers have been seen going through Nailsea and Backwell until ... well, fairly recently, I think?

I made the point I would expect them to be used over Xmas period, it was the general Winter timetable I said "if" demand is lower etc...

Double sets run to/from Plymouth at weekends on certain services, but never during the week.

What this highlights is the inflexibility of fixed formation trains both HSTs and DEMUs and DMUs and the the new IEP. Unless you haul air about you are always going to have on say on West Country to Scotalnd services when the train is either grossly overloaded or half empty.

Splitting helps but it means you need more units.

Wasn't it Anglia that ran with different length sets during the day so 11 on the peak trains and 8 on off peak. OK so you park the 11 coach set up duirng the day but it's cheaper to lease and run you can uncouple the loco and run it on a shorter set.

I go with Ian Walmsley a big electric loco (8000 +hp) coaches and a DVT and a decent Diesel loco (59s pulling power and 67s 125 top speed plus good acceleration) for off the wire. You can even split at the loco change point so the diesel only tales half the train on. A la REPS TCs 33s on the Waterloo Weymouths. IMO one of the slickest train operations ever.

Sorry it isn't dubious about double sets to Bournemouth - they happen - I see them. I couldn't hazard a guess as to which particular services they are are normally timetabled on, but they do happen occasionally. 

With respect to the tunnel works - why should the displaced sets be used elsewhere? XC are still running the normal weekday timetable, it is only weekends when they divert via Laverstock. So half the frequency should use doubled units.  Exactly the same doubling occurs when the Bournemouths run via Guildford and Havant for other engineering works.

Paul

I live in Bedminster (hence the name) and just going about Bristol I probably see at least one Voyager every day, and can't remember the last time I saw a double one. I often travel to Cornwall and these days usually manage to avoid using them. Although I haven't travelled north for a while, I often see Voyagers at Temple Meads or on Filton Bank, and again can't remember a double one in the last few years. So either the doubling up is limited to a very few services such as those people have mentioned, or it's a bizarre coincidence that I never happen to see one.

It is occasionally. Occasionally enough that it really doesn't make any real difference overall, and far too many Bournemouth's are 4-cars and are full and standing from Oxford on normal days of travel. Watch the farcical scenes on them next week...

Am I the only person who much prefers X-C voyagers to FGW bangers?

Yes.

We established this fact thoroughly last week...

To complicate things even further, out of the newer trains that were made for long distance travel, the 180s were prefered by passengers to 220/221s as they were a seen as a better environment internally. It's a shame that they were unreliable as these could have been the ideal addition to the XC fleet when FGW were rid of them. As a few people have pointed out, if the 180s had the reliability of the voyagers we could have had a perfect train for XC network if a suitable number of sets were ordered.

5 coaches on on the Plymouth to Edinburgh route is still a bit short though and there is still a question on the suitability of underfloor engine DMUs on long distance intercity routes.

Most of the problems the Voyagers have would be sorted by adding extra coaches and then doing an internal refurb. Physically they are a good  type of train for the route - fast acceleration between stops and junctions pauses.

Ooopss...  ::)  must read whole sentence...

Sorry about that

Paul

I wonder how likely it is that some of the 180s will be aquired by XC, in exchange for their HSTs?

How many 180s are there that arent already with Grand central or Hull trains?  I understand that East coast are interested in swapping HSTs for their 180s too?

Perhaps not a bad idea, as it leaves two 180s operators, and an operator with a HST fleet. 

I'm afraid you're wrong about that: was on 1425 Exeter St Davids to Darlington (an HST) on Monday: the vibration was horrendous at times; worse even than the pacer that took me from Barnstaple to Exeter.

The Voyager coming back yesterday was a much smoother ride, and we arrived at Exeter in time for my connecting train, despite the best efforts of East Coast, EWS and FGW to leave their unreliable trains in the way at various points on the route...

Hear hear  :D

As far as I'm concerned as long as I get to where I'm going doesn't matter what type of train it is.

Really?  So you're at reading waiting for the 1751 PAD to WOS when rather than the HST you expect up trundles a 2 car 165 (the substituted turbos are nearly always 165).  you have a choice:

Two hours in a sardine can
Wait half an hour for a decent train that only arrives 15 minutes behind the sardine can.

Type of train does not matter?

I agree with this statement as long as the train is suitable for the service.
For example a 1 carriage train on the Newquay branch in the middle of summer is not suitable.

I was referring to type of train not conditions.
In your example waiting the half hour would be worth it if the previous service is grossly over crowded, but if its just no seats left I'd be happy enough getting on and standing all the way. On most trips I do I end up standing anyway, unless I want a read of a paper and I'll find a seat.

Hate to be a pedant T_J, but wouldn't EXD - DAR have been an "XC banger" rather than an "FGW banger" to which dooby13 was referring...??  ;) I'm on the record as saying the XC HSTs are severely over-hyped...  ;D

Ah, you got me! (http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/imoksmiley.gif) (http://www.millan.net)

I remember when VXC ran Class 47's... ;D

Ah the delights of a proper Buffet and actually being able to get a GPRS (makes me sound old) signal so I could at least recieve e-mails when onboard for any length of time ;D

When I go XC I try to use HST's as at least I CAN get a now 3G/HSDPA Signal and hold a reasonably decent telephone call (In the vestibule of course ;) ) so I can still keep in contact with my Boss and the Server Farm in the Office... Voyagers... Noooooooope... Simply does not happen :P

And Listening to XC's First Class Hosts Excuses as to why I CANNOT have a complimentary coffee in 1st but CAN buy one instead wears a little thin when they charge the earth for their journey's as it is...! It's like... Give me a coffee d@mmit...! >:( I'm sure TJ can find an appropriate smiley ;D

Elsewhere you say you are 19. What sort of mobile email device did you have the use of as an 11/12 year old back in 2001/2002 prior to the VXC service switching to Voyagers?

Gosh... was it really that long ago...?? Could have sworn I went on a couple when I was 15...??! thinking about it more though it might have been a HST :'(

Just Checked my photo collection and it was a HST :'( It was the one VXC hired off of the now non existant Midland Mainline. Used to form the 16:25 Plymouth - York service. Not sure on the return working though...!

so if your at Penzance and the 0940 manchester is a 142 you'd be happy? (mind you, would be preferable to a vomit comet!!!)

You see I would not

I at least expect some form of seat

Have to say, as a long-time user of the 17.51, that I can't recall a single occasion when it has been subbed by a two-car 165 - three car 165s yes and also 166s, but never a two-car - even FGW control aren't that cruel to Oxford commuters.

Winter 2007/08

Any 165 is not acceptable

So not exactly a common occurrence. I've been on stand-in Turbos on that train a good few times in the past four years and they've always been three-car, never mind that substitutions seem to be rather rarer these days than they were last year.

And 165s - so long as the heaters work - are often a lot more acceptable than a 166 at this time of year, with the 166s' uncanny ability to turn one coach into a sauna, one into a fridge and the other into something in between, all in one train.

Are you really saying no train is better than a train of some sort? I would rather get into a sardine can than spend another 30 minutes or an hour hanging around at Oxford station. It's not as if you are being confronted with a packed Turbo day in day out, which is the lot of those commuting using the local services into Paddington.

getting back on topic....XC have recently decreed to there cleaning contractor at btm that its feasibly possible to clean an entire vomiter with one person in 45 min, which is rather wishful thinking, they have also taken the supply of catering stock in house and put the prices up again.
The Maintainence now seems to being skimped some what, as sets are running about with lots of stuff broken, and damaged, something that never seemed to happen about 18 months ago.
Also the shop has gone and in it place we have the  bike rack, which  has got to be the design joke of the century

I think dog box has summed things up there quite nicely...

45 mins to clean an entire train... Hmmm... I know for a fact that would defy (sp?) the laws of physics on the 17:44 & 18:44 BRI - PLY services. Very much overcrowded...! I've been in FC and decided I would like sometime to eat... sometimes you can't even make it half way down the train... as some passengers are very reluctant to let you through... annoys them even more when you come back again :D

Maintainence is a joke at times... 1 toilet on a working on a 221 is not acceptable, never mind usable!

Any First Class passengers who travel between Penzance & Taunton also onto Bristol T M I would advise you to use FGW... Yes sometimes they are slower... but IMHO you get much more for your money than with XC... Also with Travelling Chef's on selected services... a hot at seat meal makes the journey much more pleasant ;D

It faces stiff competition from other design features on those awful trains.  How about:

- the sliding doors that require two button presses to open a double set.

The sliding doors that have a luggage area in front of the space the door opens into so that the doors can get jammed shut (a safety problem surely)or else open and crush the luggage.

- The former shop in the middle of SC so you got queques forming from both directions.

- The toilets that still stink years after Virgbn claim tohave soved the problem.

-The luggage racks that get a better view out of the window than the passenger.

-The the double luggage racks where about 8inches of space is taken up buy the width of the rack rather than being available for the luggage.

- The three disabled toilets per set where only one of them is actually reachable from a wheelchair space.

-The easily jamable door on the above.

- The too small toilet tanks (or perhaps they are just rubbish at emptying them).

- The awful electronic reservation system which take an age to read because they say "this seat ......is not rese....erved", rather than just "available".

- The automatic taps that switch on and wet your hands when you are trying to use the hand dryer.

Just received this reply from CrossCountry Customer Service:

"I'm afraid you can no longer download a PDF version of our timetables from our website. You can however create your own timetable using the following link. I am sorry if you are disappointed."

Guess they need to change their passenger charter then:

"We also publish a number of timetables free of charge, which you can get from staffed stations across our network or from crosscountrytrains.co.uk."

Not being funny, but its not a lot of time, effort and money to put timetable pdf's onto a website.

Poor show indeed.

At the end of the day Crosscountry seem to care more about cost and make stuff cheap than the quality of there trains and there passangers. Every time I travel with Crosscountry I seem to have to squeeze in somewhere and, fight for a seat. Disgrace Really.

Hopefully they are breaching their franchise requirement to provide timetables so Elaine Holt can take over!

I just think Arriva are no good at running train companys and focus on the bus industry  :D

I think the biggets joke design of all time is the Voyager it'sself!

Only really handy on branch line services because its no bigger than 2 dmu's

First thing they did when they took over: they decided that they would not provide a taxi for passengers who missed their connection (due to XC) when there was another service within 1hr59mins, whereas FGW/SWT/(VirginXC) all provided alternatives when the next service is 1hr+.  It was clear then AXC was all about ^ and not customer service.

lots of XC services have been scrapped today due to xmas..which has resulted in everything going North/South of Bristol being rammed which is what happens when you run 4 car toyagers {sorry voyagers}

Had a chat with a XC employee earlier.  A few points of interest:

*Voyagers are running round with 1 engine isolated to save fuel.  They are therefore hoping that they don't have further engine failures.
*Some toilets are remaining unemptied to save costs.  Apparently it costs ^8 per toilet.
*Some toilets are not being tanked properly with water either.
*XC MD has admitted that they "got it wrong at Christmas" with regards to running 4-5 car voyagers full and standing PNZ/PLY-North and cutting all the Bristol-Manchester services.
*HST sets are paid on a "pay as you go" type agreement, hence having the sets sat around at Christmas cost XC nothing.
*Apparently all the Bristol crews got to sit spare, while Plymouth got all the grief up to Birmingham.
*Bombardier expect the shops put back into Voyager sets when they are returned, and one Bombardier maintenance inspector has examined a 5 car set, and has noted the damage that is being done to the seat "ears" and general damage that bashing the trolley around the set causes.

I think that's rather simplistic - by and large they make a fairly decent fist of running Arriva Trains Wales (at least in my experience which is fairly extensive but concentrated largely on the route between Cardiff and West Wales). COnsidering that the franchise was let as a bargain bucket, "no growth" minimum cost-type arrangement it seems to be doing pretty well. It strikes me that the Achilles heel is the increasingly tired and rat-infested 158 fleet, although these are a fairly rare species on west Wales services today, which are mostly in the hands of 175s to Carmarthen/Milford Haven and 153s to Pembroke Dock.


Assuming that's all correct it's a pretty damning indictment of the state of the CrossCountry franchise!

The ATW 158 fleet is pretty shocking now. was on a 175 recently all sparkly shiny out side but still with the tired old FNWR interior and now getting as bad as the 158 fleet.
On Voyager this week , full and standing from Cheltenham managed to wedge my self in by a toilet, problem was it was  lets play all move round the vestibule dodging the cases when someone wanted to use the loo.
More worryingly a visually impared passengers guide dog nearly got sliced in 2 by those bloody horrendous sliding doors when going with its owner to the loo.
The whole atmosphere was stressful , the staff do there best, but these units are not fit for purpose

Also heard that Arriva had asked the Dft if they could stop running past Plymouth into Cornwall and and similarly teminating northbound services at Edinburgh but were told they have to continue to honour their franchise committments.
  Clearly another franchise heading for the financial rocks.
 Agree with "Modern Railways magazines" Roger Fords call to re-create "Inter City" in some form as the former inter-city run into financial problems or terminate naturally.

The XC franchise does seem to be going to the dogs. On rare occasions when I must travel on Voyagers it does give me the impression the fleet is being run into the ground. Perhaps I'm used to comparing it to their rather excellent but sadly wasted HST fleet.

I should stress this was from an employee view, so no idea how accurate some of the 'info' was.  Although I was told that they got the general staff morale was not good and it feels like they are just being penny pinched and asset stripped.

What baffles me about the HSTs are the fact that they have an area (about the size of a FGW mini-buffet) used for storage/catering that I don't see why it couldn't have been made into a buffet!

Because Trolleys maximise catering revenue! Same reason as to why First Class is visited last when there is no FC host - to maximise revenue.

Funny thing is, the DfT allowed XC to operate such a poor xmas service!

That combined hourly service seems on the face of it to be completely against the franchise requirements, which is for the normal weekday service to run between Boxing Day and New Year's eve.  Must they have had DfT's permission?


I can't think of a situation where the XC fleet will be returned to anyone.  They'll almost certainly stay on the XC route until they are scrapped.  So what we need is a prospective franchisee to suggest to the DfT that they intend to remove seating to reinstate the luggage racks and move the bike storage, so they can reinstate the shop.  Can't see it myself...

Paul
 

They'll replace the 142s going to Exmouth in 20 years time  ;D

Will they last 20 years?

I expect there will still be 142s on the Exmouth Branch when the first Vomiter is scrapped.

I travelled with XC just after Christmas on a 07:30 working IIRC... No First Class Host, trolley came round once between Bristol and Birmingham... Cup of tea was luke warm, had a crossiant which set me back ^1.50... it was burn't so i took it back and the RSM who shall remain nameless refused to give me a refund... So i took emmense pleasure in photographing it and sent it in an email to XC Customer Services... My inbox still awaits a reply... I know I should follow it up really, but they haven't replied to any of my complaint letters (i've sent at least 3) so for the sake of ^1.50 I haven't followed it up...

Let me put things in perspective here of how displeased I am with XC... That is when I travel to places like Wrexham & Shrewsbury, I take FGW > Reading, FGW Stopper Turbo thingy > Banbury and then the most highly satisfactory Wrexham and Shropshire service ;D I will now no longer go via Cheltenham...!

I too have spoken to XC staff "off the record" all of which say how badly run XC actually is, and the only reason they turn up to work is to get paid and also they work to rule... which in laymans terms... means the passenger suffers...

 >:( >:(

Ha Ha...watch out...the Ryanair of railways. In a year or two we'll wonder at the notion that they even had shops...amateurs or very clever thinking!! :o
As long as I can take EC to KX...then Padd to Truro...all 125, I'll be happy. DaFT do need to get a grip.

Well well well, what have we here? XC have reinstated pdfs of XC timetables on their website:
http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/Find_a_train/Pocket_timetables.aspx
Must have got fed up with complaints asking why they can't be found on the XC website. Just goes to show that if enough people complain about something you might get it changed.

Well done XC, at least it shows you listened.

And they are actually stopping more Birmingham-Nottingham trains on a trial basis from May at Willington, between Derby and Burton-upon-Trent.

http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/About_us/Press_and_media_2010/Additional_services_at_Willington.aspx

>:(

The time penalty incurred by a stop at Willington is a whole two minutes, according to XC's timetable, on hourly Class 170-operated services which function as the local stopping service between Birmingham and Derby.

I assume you are in favour of encouraging the use of trains, so how on earth can you have a problem with this trial of a handful of extra services? It's not as if they are going to be stopping a Voyager or HST travelling from Plymouth to Scotland.

I'm all for stopping more trains at stations like Willington, which lost out very badly when the franchise changed.

Up until then Centro? (I get confused with these here today gone tommorrow TOCS) had built up a decent service at Willington and gave reasonable commuting oportunities to Birmingham, Derby and Nottingham.

This service was  decimated when East Midlands took over.

A bit like Melksham so maybe two voices are better than one and so every time better services are mentioned for either station then the other should be put on the table as well. There are several other stations which could come under the "while you are about it what about?" 

It makes it much more difficult to play one campaigning group off against the other.

It's not really like Melksham, where the trains were taken away. There are still lots of trains passing through Willington, just that fewer of them stop there than before, which may have something to do with its status as somewhere managed by a firm which it doesn't actually run any trains to it, in the shape of EMT - because XC doesn't manage stations - even though XC runs all the trains between Birmingham and Derby - the same management situation applies at Burton-upon-Trent, just down the line. Not sure that makes either party a champion of the interests of those two stations. EMT scrapped  two through London services from Burton inherited from Midland Mainline, which also called at Willington, in 2008.

If a train is on the line between (let us say) Achnasheen and Achnashellach, then it can't at the same time be on the line between Dawlish and Dawlish Warren ... so to that extent there is a degree of competition between lines / services / stations when there aren't enough trains to go around.  But this business of "playing one service off against another" can be overstated ... case in point, I don't think there's a trade off between Willington and Melksham and the people who are looking for an improved service in both of the towns have far more to gain by talking with each other and working togther than by competing with each other.   Actually, reading the thread it could be particularly useful for the folks or Willington, Mottisfont and Dean to talk to each other.

Boarded an XC Service from Bristol - Taunton Last Saturday, was travelling First Class and when I boarded pretty much every table was covered with rubbish, took up a good third of the table when piled in the corner as you can see below... :-\

(http://www.mcknet.co.uk/images-data/random/xc-litter.jpg)

Why don't you send that to the MD of XC, copy in Passenger Focus and ask whether he is proud of the standard of the cleanliness of their trains since they axed the contract cleaners.

Well, for the third week running the cancellation rate on a Saturday has been awful with no less than 6 trains cancelled this afternoon through Oxford/Reading, including four arrivals from Newcastle in a row from 16:43 to 19:43 (Oxford timings).  One of these was cancelled throughout, another two terminated at New Street and the other at Derby.  I've no idea what the morning figures were like, but I suspect they were just as bad.  The route down to the south west also saw some cancellations, including the 09:00 Glasgow to Penzance which only got as far as New Street.

From what I can see they were all due to train crew shortages and I did hear a rumour that drivers were not volunteering for rest days, or that Arriva told drivers that they didn't need them to volunteer - can't remember which one, but does anyone have any more information?

You are correct, Arriva changed their overtime terms as far as I know, and staff are showing management what they think of it.

They do seem to be quite adept at being a pretty shoddy operator all round, but still managing to keep just under the radar of true awfulness and the bad publicity which that attracts!

It's interesting to note however that the Sunday services appeared to run OK today. Driver's working to rule on Saturdays but not on Sunday when the overtime or RDW terms are more generous.

In fairness to XC, I'm an Exeter City fan living in Bristol and as I try to make as many games as I can, I generally want to use XC once a fortnight on Saturdays, occasionally returning on Sundays (this is variable, but it's a rough estimate of the number of trips I've made since August). Most of these trips are with XC due to the limited number of direct FGW services. I also travel through to Axminster via Exeter occasionally on Fridays and Sundays as my family lives in that area. In that time, I've had comparatively few disruptions. The only time when their general time-keeping and train running has been noticeably poor was around Christmas. Otherwise I've had few problems - the trains run on time and I can always get a seat, bar bank holidays.

It may be though that their running on the south coast route is somewhat shoddier than on the south west route.

Problems on the South coast route have been made worse by the current diversion via Laverstock.

Longsight drivers (Manchester) sign as far South as Reading, Birmingham drivers sign as far south as Bournemouth, but not the diversion. This leaves Bournemouth depot the task of driving each train between Poole (for some turnarounds) and Reading as well as the start and end of day positioning at Eastleigh depot (which this weekend due to engineering work has to be accessed by an alternative route).

The reason why Sundays may seem to run smoother than Saturdays could be down to the fact for XC Sunday does not count as annual leave unless in the middle of two weeks off, the Sunday can be requested off but not guaranteed.

RTS - pardon my ignorance here, but could you expand on what all of this means?

Does it not come down to the difference between a rest day (which they can request you to work on subject to extra payment) and annual leave which they can't.

A Sunday is normally a rest day unless it is part of a block of booked off holiday (ie if you have booked off two weeks for a holiday in Spain, they can't force you to come to work on the middle sunday of the fortnight)

That would explain why I saw a XC Voyager in the sidings at Poole last year. If they send some trains down to Poole to turnaround, it's a shame they don't run them as through passenger services teminating at Poole rather than Bournemouth.

The way holiday is rostered, at least from my experience is three single weeks of annual leave and one fortnight. The holiday week runs Monday to Saturday. As Sunday is out side of the working week it does not count towards hours as far as annual leave entitlements are concerned. If the Sunday before your weeks annual leave is a normal 'booked' Sunday you can request to have the day off it can be covered by another crew member, however when drivers aren't working any additional rest days there will be noone available to cover. An exception to this is the two week block of leave where the Sunday in-between is guaranteed off.

Unfortunately the usual turnround time of a 10-15 minutes past the hour arrival and 45 mins past the hour departure Mondays to Saturday is prohibitive and therefore the middle sidings at Bournemouth are the prefered option, though late services can be turned on the platform.
Back when the Voyagers were introduced there was a sporadic Poole service which fell foul of the axe when the shortcomings of the timetable became clear.
There's certainly options for an early morning Poole departure and a later evening Poole arrival when empty sets would otherwise be lying idle. For instance the 0630 and 0730 departures from Bournemouth currently arrive from Eastleigh as a double set, detatch in the middle sidings and exit to form their respective services. This has the potential for one unit to continue to Poole to serve an 0715 departure and times as booked from Bomo.
The same could be applied to evening arrivals, whereby the 1910 arrival fors the 1945 final service to Birmingham. Subsequent arrivals wait in the sidings to double-up and then go ECS to Eastleigh, so there is a potential for the 2010 arrival to continue to Poole and then travel ECS back to Bomo to attach to the 2110 arrival.

The reason for the current trips to Poole on a Sunday is the SWT stopping service, which instead of overtaking it at Brockenhurst, XC have to follow to Bounremouth giving and approximate arrival of half past the hour, that set will then for the xx45 departure the following hour.

Sorry folks if I've gone on for a bit as I know this isn't FGWland, maybe following the introduction of the Bath Spa service (ORCATS raid or valuable thru service is discussed elsewhere) XC are opening up to the idea of reinstating a few lost direct connections.

Thanks for the insight into the ECS workings, and don't worry about going slightly off of FGW-land, as we're doing that all the time.  :D

I know Poole was always an operations destination in the days of Loco & Coach workings, but it is a large settlement in its own right (140000 compared with Bournemouth's 165000 - though I gather those figures are based on districts which are not all particularly accessible to the area the railway station is in?), so I would have thought it might still make sense to serve on an occasional basis? 

The relatively recent phenomenon of Cross Country trains extending through to Weymouth over the summer weekends (via Poole and Dorchester) also seems to have been deemed not worth the effort, too.

No need to apologise. I appreciate you explaining about why Voyagers make their way to Poole. And yes, it was a Sunday where I saw one in the sidings at Poole.

Back in the days of 47s and MkIIs it was easier to run round at Poole off the running lines than it was at Bomo where valuable platform space would be taken up, HSTs on the other had could simply stable in the middle sidings.
There has been rmour of XC extending some services down to Weymouth for the Olympics though whether this will come to anything I don't know.

It will be interesting to see what SWT and FGW do with regards to running extra services for the Olympic sailing events in Weymouth but thats another topic for another day.

XC 8:28 ex Penzance failed to run 'again' today.

Haven't found out what their plan is - does it arrive at PNZ and have no return crew or is it terminated and restarted at Plymouth.
Annoyingly it's not shown as a cancelled service on 'tinternet and also the Station Manager has to make an ad hoc announcement.
 

I was surprised too last Saturday to find the 0630 PNZ - EDP cancelled especially when there were no flights. I don't feel you can rely on XC leaving Cornwall any more.

Crew for 1S43 are taxied from Plymouth as the set stables at Long Rock overnight, train started right time at Plymouth, reason for cancellation west thereof was no driver available.

According to NRE the XC 08.28 ex PZ ran as booked with a few minor delays at some Cornish stations. Currently somewhere around Newcastle with an on time ETA at Glasgow Central.
Having used XC's 06:00 ex Leeds this morning, as far as BHM (HST to PLY) I was suprised and please to check they cancellations page before 6 to see NO cancellations! Interested to see East Midlands Train departure displays at Sheffield describe it as "Cross Country HST", probably to forewarn platform staff. Comfortable refurbishment makes these HSTs a million times more desireable than a Voyager. Mind fit in a trip down to Exeter one day soon!

The amount of taxi-ing crews is absolutely amazing and probably costly.

Now the drivers all work for differnet TOCs you don't have sheds with links anymore so whereas in BR days Penzance men would do all the all the early morning start ups, now I presumme if there any drivers still left at Penzance they are all FGW.

Just another one of the efficiency savings bought in by privatisation.

I see Chris' original post was made just after midnight, so I'm guessing he meant for the day before! Seems to be running ok today as well, must be a blip with regards drivers not working their rest days.

Sorry, my fault for not checking the time,

Mind you a number of cancellations again today, so Tuesday was maybe a "good day"!

I've deliberately stayed away from my work BlackBerry today, unfortunately there doesn't seem to be an end in sight to the problems witha lack of drivers and the far reaches of the network suffer more as the company try to cover the core route. Several services North / West of Edinburgh, West of Plymouth and West of Southampton are the usual victims of cancellation.

Perhaps you should have a go up the pointy end RTS?  ;) ;D

Unfortunately like a lot of companies XC only recruit qualified lever monkeys these days so I'll stay in with the jolly travellers for now, not that it's an issue, so long as there's room for us all! Will see on Friday when I get back to the coalface.

You're not wrong RTS. I have a 'qualified lever monkey' friend (gonna have to call him that the next time we chat!) who is currently driving 3rd rail for Southeastern, occasionally loaned out to FCC to drive BedPan trains. He lives in the North-East and has a pad in South London to enable him to do his job, but wants to just live in one place! He is waiting on a job application with XC so he can relocate to either Newcastle or Birmingham.

Never know, one day he may be up the pointy end doing the doors for you!  ;) ;D