Great Western Coffee Shop

Read the following on another forum "Despite Hitachi announcing yesterday that it expected to sign a deal
on the Super Express by March 2010, Railway Eye appears to cast doubt
on the order, commenting that DfT is looking to extend the life of the
Great Western HSTs beyond 2030."
 What do you think.http://groups.google.com.au/group/uk.railway/browse_thread/thread/b2d7fdb9d2bd4947?hl=en#

Revamped HST please....and when or if electrification happens mk 4 or 5? coaches with electric loco and dvt to bristol and then swop the electric for a diesel loco
The super expess bi mode thingy is just a plain stupid idea. there  is enough rubbish running about at the moment Voyagers, 180s without addding more

How about building a new HST fleet to the same design, with modern day improvements?

couldnt agree more build it in the uk electric doors like the mk4 thats basically the main problem with the hst why mess with a classic?

mmmmmm that'll make the oldest coaches and power cars 52 years old in 2030, the equivalent today of traveling in a Mk1 with a warship or western hauling it or even a classic DMU.

I would personally love to see a new generation of unpowerred coaches in between two power cars as this is a quiet and extremely pleasent way of travelling in my opinion. It would also benefit the whole network if this route was followed as this would enable a new generation coaching stock to purchased all over the network allowing for more flexible loco hauled services on suitable services in the future such as cross country so that coaches can be added or taken away in busy persiods.

Certainly the Mark 3's should not be thrown away, with the credit crunch hanging over everything.

The re-use of the (Mark 3) Class 319 emu's was no doubt critical in justifying the Oxford and Newbury suburban electrification. A GW mainline scheme had then only to start from Didcot Junction...

The 133 Irish Rail (IE) Mark 3 coaches have begun to be scrapped. They have swing plug doors - surely a worthwhile purchase - why not re-import the lot?

An HST for the future could exist in diesel and electric forms. Using the MTU power cars to their full engine rating would allow 1 or 2 more trailers; equally an electric loco of 5 - 6 MW at rail could cope with 12 trailers.

The Mark 3's only need replacing (and then should be cascaded elsewhere) when serious speed increases are contemplated for the GW.

Thoughts..

OTC

Didn't the Southern's 3 and 4-SUB units run from 1915 to 1983 and still be serviceable on withdrawal?

Regards,

OTC

No, the 4 SUBS dated from 1948.  They were still pretty solid on withdrawal though.



 

They were bouncy as hell though. And cold!

On old stock ... there are still passenger trains dating back to 1938 on the national network.

Bit of a fudge that one  ;) they do run on what could be classed as light rail, oh and the infrastructure is maintained by the TOC

The Mk3 and class 43 have served the railway way beyond what they were conceived to do, the HSDT's were the 1970's BRB's stop gap to full main line electrification here we are 40 years on and finally we have a rail industry that looks like it will deliver it, it will be a hideous mistake for the politicians to stop it.  But lets not have our mainline railway system looking more like a heritage railway (nothing wrong with heritage railways I might add) than where it should be back as the world leader

The difference between the 4-SUBs and the current HST stock, is that the HSTs are still modern to travel on - and indeed, better to travel on than many modern trains. So why change the basic design?

Build some new HSTs, with modern technology in them - Brilliant trains !

That's an unfair comparison because the conditions were so much better: there were no mobiles/electronic devices constantly making noise, no incessant announcements and seats aligned with big windows that opened then! ;) 

Affectionately known as Southern Discomfort in some quarters I believe.

The aviation parrallel of course with extending the life of FGWs HSTs is the USAFs B52 bomber which entered service in the 1950s and will remain in service until 2040 with the help of regularly upgraded avionics.Also whats the point of electrifying the Great Western main line if 10 years later say a parrallel Very High Speed Line is built as recent high speed line studies are recommending.

I think we are missing the point, HST's have lasted this long because they are good trains, they are still reliable, comfortable, safe etc.
Basicly what most of you are saying is that they should be replaced just because they are old, it doesn't matter if they are 10 years old or 100 years old, if they work, and work well then why replace? if it aint broke don't fix it! Just as the 1938 stock on the Isle of Wight does the job just fine, a bit rough riding I'll agree but you don't have to replace them just because they were built before the war!

Electrification of the GWML? i'll believe it when I see it!

IMHO a rail network without the HST's simply wouldn't be the same... I agree with vacman's post in that if the HST works and works well... then surely it doesn't need replacing...

Yes I'll agree that the refurbs done by XC and FGW aren't quite up to the complete standard for the modern day traveller... (E.g. WiFi, Resturant (XC), Disabled Loo's in First Class (FGW) and Automated CIS Systems Internally and Externally)... But really in the great scheme of things, these are only minor issues...

I'll agree that a HST is rather bouncy at times... but IMO thats what makes travelling on them so great... I would personally choose a HST to travel to Dundee than I would fly... simply because the noise the HST makes whilst on the track is sort of reassuring that my feet are somewhat on the ground... (But then trout does highly disapprove of flying)

I think the HST has a good number of years left in them yet... ;D

If HSTs were to last longer, then no doubt we will see wi-fi and problems related to toilets as it would be easier to invest in someting for the long term where costs can be more spread out.

As have stated though, the best idea is new coaching stock that the current power cars can use which once electrification has been completed can mean the powercars can be replaced with electric power cars. The power cars then be displaced onto lesser workings with the mk3 stock onto lines such as Cardiff-Portsmouth which would allow a large increase in capacity, add first class, improve the quality of the journey whilst still having the benefits of units such as not requireing a run around.

"No, the 4 SUBS dated from 1948.  They were still pretty solid on withdrawal though."

The first steel-bodied 4-SUB appeared in 1941 (4101). The 3-SUB's started in 1925, as conversions. The earliest ones (1201+) were from 1915 by the LSWR, rebuilt from 1904 built stock!

Re-engineering taken to the extreme, or beggars can't be choosers.

OTC


 

Have to say I will always choose an HST over a class 91 set on the ECML, and XC. I'm amazed however that there has not been more fuss, nationally, made of the toilets evacuating onto the tracks at high speed...no wonder lineside weeds grow so well!
I understand that, as they are currently configuered, it is impossible to fit tanks. Pity the track workers that, standing back, are covered in a fine spray of effluent as it carpets the surroudings!  :o