Great Western Coffee Shop

All across the Great Western territory => The Wider Picture in the United Kingdom => Topic started by: JayMac on November 17, 2009, 16:49:27



Title: £50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: JayMac on November 17, 2009, 16:49:27
From The BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8363621.stm):

Quote
Ten railway stations in England most in need of modernisation are to get £50m to carry out urgent improvements.

Manchester Victoria, Clapham Junction in south London and Crewe, in Cheshire, were among those with the worst customer satisfaction ratings.

The money will be spent on improving facilities such as car parks and shops.

Transport Secretary Lord Adonis, who is due to make a lightning tour of all 10, said rail operators would be required to ensure minimum standards in future.

'Left behind'

Last week, rail operator Network Rail announced plans to spend ^3.25bn to improve more than 2,000 stations across England and Wales by 2014.
   
But the government's railway "champions" - former Virgin Trains chief executive Chris Green and Town and Country Planning Association president Sir Peter Hall - have identified 10 that are in need of the most urgent work.

In a report released on Tuesday, they described the 10 as having been "left behind".

Many were large Victorian buildings that were difficult to develop or had little commercial appeal, they said, and all had customer satisfaction ratings of less than 50%. Manchester Victoria was judged to be the worst followed by Clapham Junction and Crewe, with all three suffering from overcrowding.

Also on list are Barking, Stockport, Warrington Bank Quay, Preston, Wigan North Western, Luton and Liverpool Central.

The champions argued that Scotland had avoided the problem of poor stations by organising funding more effectively over a number of decades.

'Journey experience'

"Stations cannot be seen in isolation - they are part of the total journey experience," their report said. "Stations are deeply entwined with their local community and effectively act as the gateway to both town and railway. They leave passengers with their lasting impressions of both - a dilapidated station is bad business for both town and railway." The report added that the last decade "has seen the rail industry focus successfully on restoring reliability and investing in a record number of new trains". Its authors went on: "The next decade should build on this foundation to deliver the total journey experience - but to do this it will have to focus more on its stations."

Lord Adonis agreed that while train travel itself had "improved a good deal in recent years... more needs to be done to improve conditions and services for passengers at stations. I want every station to be a good station - a hub of local community life and somewhere that you wouldn't mind spending time, with adequate facilities," he said.

More CCTV

"I support the report's recommendations of minimum standards for stations - classed by size - in terms of information, car and bike parking, facilities and environment.

   
PRIORITY STATIONS
Manchester Victoria
Clapham Junction
Crewe
Barking
Stockport
Warrington Bank Quay
Preston
Wigan North Western
Luton
Liverpool Central

"I intend to make these minimum standards a requirement in future rail franchise agreements with train operating companies."

Network Rail said it would work closely with the Department for Transport to begin a programme of improvements at the 10 stations as soon as possible.

Among the changes announced last week were improved passenger information systems, new toilets and waiting rooms, better lighting and more use of CCTV.


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: JayMac on November 17, 2009, 16:52:38
Over to the forum:

What stations in FGW land are overdue a revamp? My vote goes to Bristol Temple Meads - can we have a Marks and Spencer please?


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: Mookiemoo on November 17, 2009, 17:00:02
Over to the forum:

What stations in FGW land are overdue a revamp? My vote goes to Bristol Temple Meads - can we have a Marks and Spencer please?

WOS
Newport - most definitely Newport


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: matt473 on November 17, 2009, 17:07:06
It may be time for Swansea to have some work done as it really needs a waiting room and a general tidy up, especially if it is the terminus for HST2 in South Wales.


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: John R on November 17, 2009, 17:46:51
Over to the forum:

What stations in FGW land are overdue a revamp? My vote goes to Bristol Temple Meads - can we have a Marks and Spencer please?

I'd rather a decent booking hall if there's any space going spare.


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: devon_metro on November 17, 2009, 18:27:04
Paignton, Teignmouth, Dawlish - all dumps.


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: Henry on November 17, 2009, 18:56:41

 Although any spending on the railway system is a good thing, I note that none of the SW stations are on the list.

 Perhaps NR are looking to invest in certain stations so as to attract lucrative franchise aggreements may I suggest.
 So the footbridge at Teignmouth will have to wait.


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: paul7575 on November 17, 2009, 19:26:09

 Although any spending on the railway system is a good thing, I note that none of the SW stations are on the list.


I reckon you need to have a Labour MP who's seat is unsafe (eg Barking) for this round of handouts...

Paul


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: JayMac on November 17, 2009, 19:39:25

 Although any spending on the railway system is a good thing, I note that none of the SW stations are on the list.


I reckon you need to have a Labour MP who's seat is unsafe (eg Barking) for this round of handouts...

Paul

Ah.... but Crewe is on the list.


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: Lee on November 17, 2009, 19:39:44
Over to the forum:

What stations in FGW land are overdue a revamp? My vote goes to Bristol Temple Meads - can we have a Marks and Spencer please?

WOS

Couldnt agree more. Worcester Shrub Hill is one of my favourites, but it always reminds me of a sleeping giant that could do with some help to wake up.

We had a nice wander there a couple of months back. Off the train at Foregate Street, look around the Cathedral, walk up to the bridge, bimble down the riverside, Cathedral ferry (a rowing boat in reality), then along the canal to Shrub Hill.

Magic. Well it does the job for me, anyway...

Its even got an unsafe Labour MP  ;D


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: paul7575 on November 17, 2009, 19:41:15
Er... except when you are trying to unseat someone in a supposed 'railway town', and you need to bribe the electorate... ;D

Paul


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: Bob_Blakey on November 17, 2009, 19:53:24
This will almost certainly turn out to be a serious waste of scarce finances due to the unwillingness, and in some instances inability due to ludicrous 'listed building' regulations, of Network Rail /TOC's to rebuild from the bottom up rather than just refurbish.
Exeter St Davids is a perfect example - once you get through the relatively modern looking booking area, you are effortlessly transported back to the early 1900's which is when the last major alterations were made.
Having seen some photographs I would venture to suggest that copying the work just completed at Derby would be a useful way forward.


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: JayMac on November 17, 2009, 20:02:22
This will almost certainly turn out to be a serious waste of scarce finances due to the unwillingness, and in some instances inability due to ludicrous 'listed building' regulations, of Network Rail /TOC's to rebuild from the bottom up rather than just refurbish.
Exeter St Davids is a perfect example - once you get through the relatively modern looking booking area, you are effortlessly transported back to the early 1900's which is when the last major alterations were made.
Having seen some photographs I would venture to suggest that copying the work just completed at Derby would be a useful way forward.

Network Rail are able to grant themselves planning permission without recourse to a Local Authority, and if they so chose they can bypass listed building rules, but imagine the outcry. Some of our Victorian railway stations are indeed no longer fit for purpose, but I'd rather see repair and dynamic use of the existing infrastructure ^ la St Pancras International, than tearing down and rebuilding from the bottom up. Euston is a classic example of how not to do it.


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: inspector_blakey on November 17, 2009, 20:14:15
It may be time for Swansea to have some work done as it really needs a waiting room and a general tidy up, especially if it is the terminus for HST2 in South Wales.

Wholeheartedly agree... I've spent many festive hours there after missing west Wales connections - it always seems to be late at night in the depths of winter, never on a warm summer's evening. On these occasions the existence of the late Fishguard boat train is an irritation, because without it I'd be sitting in a warm taxi to my destination...

Apart from one occasion when a friendly duty manager unlocked some secret (warm!) waiting room for me, each missed connection has resulted in an hour or so freezing off my proverbials on the platform with no hope of anywhere warm to sit or even a cup of tea. If you're lucky, there might be something in the vending machine but don't bank on it. It really is a bit lacklustre considering it's the main station in Wales's second city!


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: Btline on November 17, 2009, 22:04:05
Worcester's facilities are woeful! We need a new or refurbished City Centre station, then a parkway at Shrub Hill.

Of course, we almost had one. But Tesco did their bit for the community by scuppering it (and probably scuppering many other businesses in the area).

But more could be done with what there is. A clean would help. Then ticket barriers, better stairs, HST length platforms, extended canopies, more seating. Rename Worcester Central.

Shrub Hill needs pulling down (not the building) and starting again. It is a decaying ruin. Remove the through tracks, use the space for a bigger "concourse" and three through platforms. Ticket barriers installed. Rename Worcester Parkway.

Or shut and flatten Shrub Hill and build Parkway at Norton.


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: Oxman on November 17, 2009, 22:23:54
Neither the Worcesters (London Midland) or Swansea (ATW) are managed by FGW of course.

TOCs investment in stations is normally decided at the time the franchise is let, and usually happens in the first few years of a franchise - otherwise there is no payback.

If the TOC doesn't pay, its either down to Network Rail, which has not been hugely enthusiastic to date (but is now singing a different tune), or to local/national government funded schemes.

So, for Swansea, try the Welsh National Assembly, and for Worcester.............?


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: matt473 on November 17, 2009, 23:11:59
But the funding for station refurbishment would come from Network rail so who manages the station is somewhat of a red herring as they would not be responsible for the work.


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 17, 2009, 23:19:45
But more could be done with what there is. A clean would help. Then ticket barriers, better stairs, HST length platforms, extended canopies, more seating. Rename Worcester Central.

And can somebody please re-open that damn waiting room on the up platform at Shrub Hill!!!


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 17, 2009, 23:21:48
What stations in FGW land are overdue a revamp? My vote goes to Bristol Temple Meads - can we have a Marks and Spencer please?
Newport - most definitely Newport
[/quote]

Already being done: http://www.newportunlimited.co.uk/11111.html?newsId=11088 (http://www.newportunlimited.co.uk/11111.html?newsId=11088)


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: JayMac on November 17, 2009, 23:38:35
BBC Magazine article here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8364380.stm): 'What makes a terrible railway station?'


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: Mookiemoo on November 17, 2009, 23:53:15
Worcester's facilities are woeful! We need a new or refurbished City Centre station, then a parkway at Shrub Hill.

Of course, we almost had one. But Tesco did their bit for the community by scuppering it (and probably scuppering many other businesses in the area).

But more could be done with what there is. A clean would help. Then ticket barriers, better stairs, HST length platforms, extended canopies, more seating. Rename Worcester Central.

Shrub Hill needs pulling down (not the building) and starting again. It is a decaying ruin. Remove the through tracks, use the space for a bigger "concourse" and three through platforms. Ticket barriers installed. Rename Worcester Parkway.

Or shut and flatten Shrub Hill and build Parkway at Norton.

How would I get to Norton?

From Ludlow


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: Btline on November 18, 2009, 16:09:12
Hence my preference for Shrub Hill to be the Parkway.


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: Not from Brighton on November 20, 2009, 15:43:12
I really don't think there's a need for two city centre stations in Worcester. What's needed is one in the centre for the schools traffic (which is a huge component of the rush hour) and one out by a major road for people to drive to. I vote for the Flatten Shrub Hill plan. I'm sure the listed waiting room could be moved.


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: Btline on November 24, 2009, 19:02:18
I really don't think there's a need for two city centre stations in Worcester. What's needed is one in the centre for the schools traffic (which is a huge component of the rush hour) and one out by a major road for people to drive to. I vote for the Flatten Shrub Hill plan. I'm sure the listed waiting room could be moved.

But you need a station on at least 2 sides of the triangle in the city centre. WOF can't cope with any extra trains, so some have to stop at WOS.

So that's why I think Shrub Hill should be retained as a parkway. But the whole site should be flattened, there is scope for a huge car park. I couldn't care less about the listed waiting room. Move it brick by brick to a preserved line somewhere!


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: devon_metro on November 24, 2009, 19:11:35
Why must it be called a Parkway?

I park my car at Totnes, does that deem it a Parkway station?


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: Btline on November 25, 2009, 14:01:31
Why must it be called a Parkway?

I park my car at Totnes, does that deem it a Parkway station?

Because then Worcester would have "Worcester Central" - clearly a city centre station; and "Worcester Parkway" - clearly a less central station with ample of car parking. This would simplify public transport a lot, and allow visitors and new commuters to easily pick their station.


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: devon_metro on November 25, 2009, 20:02:07
Can we have a more original name!!


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 25, 2009, 23:46:03
'Worcester Commuter', perhaps?  ::)


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: Btline on November 26, 2009, 19:37:47
Worcester Wasteland?


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: Lee on November 26, 2009, 19:39:02
Worcester Wasteland?

Is that before or after you flatten Shrub Hill?...


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: Mookiemoo on November 27, 2009, 13:23:57
To be fare to WOS

someone has been out with a pot of black paint in the last week or so - lots of wet paint signs and the black definitely looks more shiny.

they seem to have gotten bored however as nothing else has been done


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: Phil on November 27, 2009, 14:01:06
I remember years ago, it was always considered a sure sign that a station was about to be closed if they started doing it up....


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: jakemonkfish on November 27, 2009, 15:39:59
how about start again in the middle of the triangle where the sidings are ( on google maps at least) with access on all sides, a brown filed site with lots of space and access for trains from all routes. Then both stations could be scrapped and Worcester Ranbow Hill could become a reality. Listed waiting rooms could be moved, car parks built - all we need is a flood and iT'll happen in less than a week...


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: Btline on November 27, 2009, 17:26:01
how about start again in the middle of the triangle where the sidings are ( on google maps at least) with access on all sides, a brown filed site with lots of space and access for trains from all routes. Then both stations could be scrapped and Worcester Ranbow Hill could become a reality. Listed waiting rooms could be moved, car parks built - all we need is a flood and iT'll happen in less than a week...

A good idea for a "3-way" station in the triangle.

But you still need the City Centre station on Foregate Street for shoppers, commuters and schoolchildren.

I absolutely HATE what LM have been doing to stations. Painting everything black, save a few strips of lime green (yuk). Then, to make things worse - they have removed the British Rail font branding (a very clear font - one of the most, in fact!) and used their own, with a black background. it is MUCH harder to read, and it is removing the unity that our stations had.

I'll say that for FGW and NX, they keep the BR branding and simply apply their own to fit round it.


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: jakemonkfish on November 28, 2009, 07:56:20
Its 200m on google maps - given the obesity epidemic in the UK this might help with exercise, besides Foredate street is at one end of the high street isn't it and a truely central station is not possible unless something dramatic has happened to Worcester since I left for sunny Swindon ( don't worry now safe in Somerset!)


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: Btline on November 28, 2009, 18:09:17
It would take ages to walk, and is a lot more than 220yds! Worcester needs a city centre station like everywhere else. There is NO WAY WOF would be axed. It would damage the economy and affect the catchment area of local schools.


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: Not from Brighton on December 17, 2009, 12:56:29
WOF should have it's platforms doubled in length and a single loop line put in the centre at the eastern end. That way a shortish train could access platform 2a even if another shortish train was sitting at plat 2b.
Would need two or three (probably listed) bridges rebuilding, but at least that way WOS could be buldozed and we'd still have a decent city centre station.

That's my two pence worth...


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: Mookiemoo on December 17, 2009, 13:31:43
WOF should have it's platforms doubled in length and a single loop line put in the centre at the eastern end. That way a shortish train could access platform 2a even if another shortish train was sitting at plat 2b.
Would need two or three (probably listed) bridges rebuilding, but at least that way WOS could be buldozed and we'd still have a decent city centre station.

That's my two pence worth...

car parking


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: JayMac on December 17, 2009, 14:37:53
Worcester needs a city centre station like everywhere else.

We cope here in Bristol without a city centre station. In fact there are many cities whose main station is a fair distance from the commercial/retail centre. I actually enjoy the walk into town in many places, it gives you an opportunity to find the independent retailers and interesting eateries/pubs before you reach the 'High Street' which is often just 'Anytown, UK'.



Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: Not from Brighton on December 18, 2009, 00:05:50
Ever been to "Milano Centrale"?

It's in Milan, but it's not very centrale...


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: Not from Brighton on December 18, 2009, 00:06:27
WOF should have it's platforms doubled in length and a single loop line put in the centre at the eastern end. That way a shortish train could access platform 2a even if another shortish train was sitting at plat 2b.
Would need two or three (probably listed) bridges rebuilding, but at least that way WOS could be buldozed and we'd still have a decent city centre station.

That's my two pence worth...

car parking

Parkway.


Title: Re: ^50m revamp for 'worst stations' (BBC News 17/11/09)
Post by: Btline on December 18, 2009, 00:48:45
Shrub Hill should be the station accessible by road.

WOF is the one in the heart of the CBD and near to 2 large schools. Some sort of bay to allow extra terminating trains from the East would be nice, but unlikely to happen.



This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net