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Anyone know what was going on with the 14:42 from Filton Abbey Wood to Taunton today (13th Nov 2009)?

My son commutes from Filton Abbey Wood to Melksham (or at least he would; he actually drives to and from Trowbridge each day due to the lack of trains at Melksham  :-[) and came home with an interesting story today. He's not a train enthusiast so please excuse lack of detail!

Apparently on arrival at FAW the 14:42, which he got as far as Temple Meads,  turned out to be two "big old diesels, one at either end, with flat fronts" pulling a train of "really old coaches from the 1970s. They were blue, with Intercity written on the side, grey seats with cream tables and lots of room (and lots of tables!), and the lighting seemed really yellow by today's standards"

Its the daily loco hauled set that is covering for a lack of units. Service was 1400 Cardiff - Taunton

Nice to see some old BR stock back!

P.S are there any intercity 125s in origanal BR state eg blue and white livery, orange interiors that do 'railtours' e.g that you can buy tickets for? If so, can someone let me know - I did see a picture of one like this on wikipedia it was 'up north' and I think it was a couple of years ago.

Thanks in advance

Pretty sure theere aren't any STs in Br livery left. Not sure if there aren't some with unrebuilt standard coaches, i.e lots of tables and few high backed airline seats, not sure who runs them.

MKII Anyone...??! ;D

(http://www.mcknet.co.uk/images-data/random/lhcs1.jpg)

(http://www.mcknet.co.uk/images-data/random/lhcs2.jpg)

(http://www.mcknet.co.uk/images-data/random/lhcs3.jpg)

(http://www.mcknet.co.uk/images-data/random/lhcs4.jpg)

(http://www.mcknet.co.uk/images-data/random/lhcs5.jpg)

Yes please. Would love to see loco hauled back on the Cardiff-Portsmouth route. With 3 car 158s pretty much full now at times an alternative will soon have to be thought of now we aren't getting 4 car DMUs.

Thanks, Trout! That's exactly the one. My son now thinks I'm pretty impressive* for not only knowing the right people to ask but to find photos of the actual train he was on  ;D




_{*and perhaps a little sad}  :D

Phil - that's an excellent factual report.   We see / hear about the "loco hauled trains" from the "conniseurs" who love them for the most part, yet they are old by comparison.  Was he positive or negative in attitude - did the "lots of room and tables" outweigh the "old and yellow lighting"?  I would be really interested to learn what people who chance upon that train for the first time think.

Good point, Graham. I've just asked him and he loved the fact that there was leg room, baggage racks, and TABLES. Said he wished he could have the same every day.

When I prompted him about the seat backs, he said that he hadn't thought about it at the time but looking back, yes he did prefer the fact that he could see all around him, and was able to see out of the windows.

The lighting didn't bother him, it just struck him as old fashioned.

It's maybe also worth mentioning that in common with a large percentage of the male population, he's partially colour blind - hence why the seats appeared grey!

mk 2's anyone?

(http://www.flickr.com/photos/relex109/4069962904/)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3534/4069962904_cdd7cd14a2_b.jpg)

Mk2s are good carriages and would gladly travel in one anyday over an DMU.

I'd be interested to know how viable an alternative this would be. For example, I remember (before the first loco-hauled set was introduced) proposing such a solution to FGW as an interim measure, only to be told that it would be too expensive. Fast forward, and it would appear that FGW will have 2 such sets on the Cross-Bristol network from December.

Questions:

1) How much does it currently cost to hire the loco-hauled sets?

2) How feasible would it be, availability-wise, to bring more loco-hauled sets onto the FGW network?

3) Would I be right in assuming that a 4-coach loco-hauled set wouldnt have that many more seats than a 3-coach Class 158 unit?

It is worth noting that both sets are funded by the DfT, so FGW has small costs.

Cheers for that. I knew that DfT requested and funded the first set, but I wasnt sure what the situation was with the set being introduced in December.

Another reason I am asking the 3 questions is in the context of the RUS, which I am currently (and belatedly) studying.

Any answers most appreciated.

I think as Timmer says... Loco Hauled for the Cardiff - Portsmouth especially on the busier Bath and Bristol Diagrams would be a suitable option. For Example, if you had 6 Loco Hauled Carriages, maybe refurbed similar to the CrossCountry HST design that featured: Disabled Toilet, Galley/Buffet and maybe First Class seating... A formation such as BSOD+TSO+TSO+TSO+TSO+TMBF

It would certainly make much more sense to have a Buffet on a Loco Hauled set on this route as the trolley can't always get up and down the train... plus it takes up the space of about 4 people when the train is full and standing...

Also having First Class seating on Cardiff - Portsmouth would make it a much more attractive route for business travellers who want to work on the move... Also I personally think that sitting on an overcrowded 2+2 Layout 158 from Portsmouth > Bath Spa isn't overly comfortable... The tickets for FC are available between Bristol & Salisbury, but only 4 Trains in each direction run with First Class (SWT)

The disabled loo's are not exactly up to standards to use with a modern day wheelchair... let alone usable at all on occasions...!

So to summerise, Yes it would be good to see Loco Hauled on this route... And considering the amount of unused MKII stock out there... it might as well be put to good use whilst it's still usable... As in all honesty, I'd rather sit on a 1970's style MKII than a noisy 158 any day :)

Is loco hauled stock allowed in service between Southampton and Fareham nowadays?

IIRC the 'Footex HST' had to run via Eastleigh earlier this year, because it wasn't allowed over the River Hamble bridge? 

Edit:  There are speed restrictions of 15 mph at the Hamble for most locos except 31s.  Also all locos prohibited from Portsmouth Harbour platform 1 & 3...

Paul

Let's face it, when XC have taken off buffets, and FGW came very close to removing buffet cars on many of its services, the chances of a buffet car on Cardiff - Portsmouth are non-existent.

I agree that the current loco-hauled services may provide a better ambience on the route, but I suspect that FGW have deliberately not put them onto such services, so as not to raise expectations given they are just a stop gap measure.

The real problem here is that the new dmu order was canned. I have long held the suspicion that it was announced in such a hurry that it was soon realised that there were too many issues that had not been thhought through for it to proceed. So the electrification announcement was a convenient opportunity to backpedal and cancel it.  

Not quite correct. CDF-TAU was chosen as it is a nice staight run on one Network Rail zone with no issues regarding 22.5 tonne axleload 67's being run on the route. No reversal at Temple Meads required either.

The FGW 'West' drivers are not currently trained on loco's / LHCS and they never will be. Not much point training them up or contempating any extensions of Loco Haulage, it will all be gone by December 2010 once sufficient 150's are available.

Another advantage is that Taunton - Bristol is 100mph plus 110mph Highbridge-WSM. If the 67s are cleared for 100+ running (I don't actually know if they do) they've got this (small) advantage over 90mph units. Severn Tunnel - Cardiff is largely 95mph as well I believe.

In comparison Cardiff - Portsmouth has only the 95mph stretch plus Bristol - Bath at 100mph for any 90+ running. I think Bath-Westbury is 70mph, Warminster - Salisbury 75mph, Salisbury - Southampton 85mph and Southampton - Portsmouth 70mph at best, with lots of speed restrictions. In other words, Class 67s + mkIIs might be more comfy, but with slower acceleration you'd have an even longer journey.

Interesting to read the comments about the number of coaches used Cardiff - Portsmouth.

I got a book from the library on Saturday of "Hampshire Railways". 
There are 5 photos in this book of Cardiff - Portsmouth trains, all around mid 50s, where the number of coaches can be identified. The loco in all cases is a Class 4 2-6-0: one with 6 coaches, two with 7 and 2 with 9. Yet we are now told that more people than ever are travelling by train - in 3 car 158s !

There can't be many stations on that route that could cope with a 9 coach train, even at Westbury arriving on a 2 + 8 HST they now describe it as a "short platform", Platform 4 at Salisbury springs to mind as the only long one - and Temple Meads.
I wonder how they stopped passengers falling to their deaths at places like Dilton Marsh - 'elf & safety certainly wouldn't allow that nowadays.

Trains used to run non stop from Bath to Salisbury as recently as the early eighties, so maybe short platforms weren't an issue for the trains shown.   

I could easily believe that - by and large train frequencies are higher now, each car of a 158 seats more people than a mark I, and finally I'd bet good money that those 6-, 7- and 9-car trains were carting round a great deal of the proverbial "fresh air".

Going on leg room - "I could easily believe that" too !

The platforms at Dilton Marsh were longer in the past.

I remember that platform replacement took place in the 90's (the alternative being closure, as happened at Radipole, for example, in the 80's)

The new platform that they first put in got nicked, if I recall correctly...

"This train has been revised. It will no longer call at Dilton Marsh"     ;D ;D

I don't think the 67's and LHCS are permitted to run at the HST speeds between STJ and Cardiff. Think its only 170, 175, 180 and HST authorised for the higher speeds. FGW 158's run at 75mph max, and there is no increase in speed as a result of Newport S1a being commisioned over the Xmas period.

Haven't ever travelled on the 67 hauled set so no actual knowledge of what sort of sppeds it actually achieves in service.

It gets the relief lines into Cardiff anyway. It reaches 100mph between Highbridge and Taunton.

What? All the way from Newport? Why would any services be booked for the 40mph relief lines? I'm intrigued.

Put it this way, they are overtaken by the following HST meaning it is quicker to get a later train at Newport.

but does the loco hauled set actually have different timings to the services ran by dmu's

The relief lines from Ebbw Junction to Pengam are cleared for 60mph in both directions.

The TAU-CDF trains are not scheduled to run on the relief lines from STJ to Maindee East Jn. These lines are 40mph maximum speed.

While on the subject of South Wales area line speeds, just been on the phone to line management regarding a notice that has been displayed at work. As from December 5th, the rules relating to differential line speeds have changed slightly and unit classes 158 / 159 now come into the category of 'HST' where differential lines speeds are displayed. Where a lineside sign indicates 'HST 90', a 158 may now travel at 90mph.

This means that 158's are now permitted to run at full bifters (90mph) between Severn Tunnel Jn and Pengam, not withstanding the rather short signal sections of the 1960's signalling compared with todays signalling standards. This is in fact the first time these units have been allowed to travel at these speeds on this section of the line since their introduction in 1992.

The FGW locomotive hauled trains, both the DB-S and fGBRF variants will continue to be restricted to operating at 75mph maximum speed on the Severn Tunnel Jn - Pengam stretch of the line.