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Title: No ticket barriers for Grade II listed station at York? Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 29, 2009, 20:57:55 From the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/north_yorkshire/8331781.stm):
Quote Appeal bid over station barriers A rail company is appealing against a decision not to allow ticket barriers at York railway station. In July, councillors rejected plans by National Express East Coast to install 17 automatic tickets gates and barriers within the Grade II listed station. The company said the scheme would cut fare dodging but objectors have said they were unsightly and unnecessary. The controversial plans were thrown out over concerns the barriers would detract from the station's character. Neal Smith, from National Express East Coast, said the company believed the council's decision was wrong. He said they were expected to deliver the scheme as part of a franchise agreement with the Department of Transport. "We have listened to the objectors and we have modified the scheme, for example we've reduced the height of the gates that are proposed from 1.8m to 1.1m and we've looked at a new access to the short stay car park." Mr Smith added: "We do think it is the right decision and as I've said it is a commitment that the government expects us to deliver." Objectors have argued the gates would be out of keeping with the building's historic feel. Jonathan Tyler, chairman of the York Environment Forum, which campaigns for a sustainable way of life in the city, said the barriers would act as a "physical impediment". He said: "There is a small limited problem of ticket fraud and evasion but there are better ways of tackling that by dealing with it on trains where it can be part of the customer service. If you install barriers at stations you introduce a physical impediment. You stop people going to meet their friends and their relatives, which is part of the travel experience and above all you take it out of the public realm." The appeal is expected to be heard in the new year. Title: Re: No ticket barriers for Grade II listed station at York? Post by: Phil on October 29, 2009, 21:25:53 Quote Objectors have argued the gates would be out of keeping with the building's historic feel. I can only assume objectors who are fans of squared-off, bland '80s brick architecture won their argument against the installation of barriers at Didcot Parkway then, as it puzzles me why they don't have any barriers (or ticket checks) there. Title: Re: No ticket barriers for Grade II listed station at York? Post by: inspector_blakey on October 29, 2009, 21:50:11 There are (or at least used to be) regular staffed ticket checks at the entrance to the subway in the mornings. I assume the entrance from the Foxhall car park is either closed or staffed at those times as well.
I remember a staff member posting on here some time ago that Didcot was slated to be next in line for barriers but never heard any more about it. Title: Re: No ticket barriers for Grade II listed station at York? Post by: caliwag on October 29, 2009, 22:01:05 A snapshot of reasoned arguements from locals, who you can be pretty sure are railway people
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/4708678.National_Express_East_Coast_launches_bid_to_overturn_York_Station_barrier_decision/?ref=eb Title: Re: No ticket barriers for Grade II listed station at York? Post by: JayMac on October 29, 2009, 22:28:05 I like the arguement that barriers will detract from the stations character! Did the City Council oppose the Burger King in the ticket hall? Or the other retail outlets with their garish signage. Surely OHLE detracts from the character......
I hope NXEC (or the successor) win their appeal; and they should have a bit of government weight behind them - barrier installation is a franchise commitment after all. Having said that I am tired of TOCs using the 'security' argument for barrier installation. Tell it like it is; revenue protection. Nothing more, nothing less. One aspect of this does confuse me though. NXEC are merely the tenant of York Station. Surely Network Rail could grant themselves planning permission....they have that power. Title: Re: No ticket barriers for Grade II listed station at York? Post by: inspector_blakey on October 29, 2009, 22:30:02 Got to love the "comments" section of the local news websites. Still, at least this one makes a change from the right-wing bile that used to be the stock in trade of many folks posting on the comments section of the local paper's website when I lived in Oxford (I suspect it's probably the same pretty much everywhere else too)!
Title: Re: No ticket barriers for Grade II listed station at York? Post by: caliwag on October 29, 2009, 22:38:31 Quite...I do tend to agree about the Character-changing arguement...entire Nimbyism...and York used to have TC boxes. In reality people of York like their station (many have of course worked for the railway, the works etc, and now the museum), but I think the objection is more about the fact that there are many entrances/exits that people have grown used to using...side gate from the cycle area, and the relatively new museum side one...useful for commuters.
I would think it's the fact that the station is listed that NR can't just used permitted development...BTW I do agree Burger King etc is poor. And Coopers bar is overpriced and never has decent ale on...bah >:( Title: Re: No ticket barriers for Grade II listed station at York? Post by: devon_metro on October 29, 2009, 22:46:37 Barriers are only useful when used properly.
On Tuesday I exited/entered paddington at 0545 plat 1, 1035 plat 14, 2020 plat 4 and did not use my ticket once. Using the bridge is an obvious trick, however I was suprised to see the suburban barriers wide open at half 10. Title: Re: No ticket barriers for Grade II listed station at York? Post by: Ollie on October 29, 2009, 22:52:15 Barriers are only useful when used properly. Quite a normal situation lately, should change once the new staff taken on.On Tuesday I exited/entered paddington at 0545 plat 1, 1035 plat 14, 2020 plat 4 and did not use my ticket once. Using the bridge is an obvious trick, however I was suprised to see the suburban barriers wide open at half 10. Title: Re: No ticket barriers for Grade II listed station at York? Post by: JayMac on October 29, 2009, 23:18:04 And Coopers bar is overpriced and never has decent ale on...bah >:( Grab yourself a Bite Card (http://www.bitecard.co.uk/home.asp) and get yourself 20% off in Coopers. Oh, and last time I was there my pint of Tetleys was most agreeable. Title: Re: No ticket barriers for Grade II listed station at York? Post by: Mookiemoo on October 29, 2009, 23:38:04 l. Having said that I am tired of TOCs using the 'security' argument for barrier installation. Tell it like it is; revenue protection. Nothing more, nothing less. Its not even that without robust on train checks I've said before and I say again...........I could get a charlbury to Reading single and a Reading to Reading west single and I doubt anyone would know the wiser. Up of a morning I get on, the ATI gets on at charlbury. I have YET to get a ticket check from Reading to Worcester before today - of course I have a number of still valid return portions I could whip out in the event I was trying it on - and even then he looked at the return valid until 28 Nov and wandered past............ opportunity to re-use with a reading west ticket? Title: Re: No ticket barriers for Grade II listed station at York? Post by: willc on October 30, 2009, 00:16:12 Re Didcot, the big fly in the ointment there is access to the Railway Centre, which is through the station subway - the only other way in is on a train. No-one seems to have come up with a way round this problem yet.
There's a similar kind of thing at York because people have got used to going through the station as a handy way to get from the National Railway Museum and the Leeman Road area to the city centre in the past few years since the western access bridge to the station opened, rather than going round through the not very pedestrian-friendly bridge under the tracks and past the hotel. However, inconveniencing pedestrians is not really the kind of thing planning committees are allowed to cite when making decisions, hence the convoluted stuff about character. I have a sneaking suspicion that if that western extension of the footbridge had never been opened, no-one would have batted an eyelid about the barriers going in. Title: Re: No ticket barriers for Grade II listed station at York? Post by: inspector_blakey on October 30, 2009, 03:00:57 The only solution that readily springs to mind would be for the Railway Centre's ticket office to relocate to the front of the station, although I have little idea of (a) who would pay for this, (b) where it would go and (c) what the economics of leasing a part of the station long term would be.
Title: Re: No ticket barriers for Grade II listed station at York? Post by: Btline on October 30, 2009, 09:55:53 The more barriers the better. A major station like York should have them. They should be in operation and staffed from the first until the last train of the day.
But of course, I doubt anyone would pay for that! Title: Re: No ticket barriers for Grade II listed station at York? Post by: paul7575 on October 30, 2009, 12:32:06 Why not rebuild the barriers the station originally came with? That would turn it into a nice dark and dingy place, like Newcastle Central used to be when I were a lad. :( The idea that York has always been fully open is probably far from correct.
They seem to think they are somehow a special case in York - too well behaved to need barriers, and beside they aren't a commuter type station. Well that argument could be used at many barriered stations in the south, and unfortunately it is Government (ie DfT) policy - I reckon the city is flogging a dead horse myself. One issue though, having watched some of the recent SWT installations take place, is that the barrier line itself can just stand on the ground. So if it is effectively portable, why not just make the whole setup 'portable' including having free-standing panels between barrier sections? Surely that wouldn't then be a planning issue? Paul Title: Re: No ticket barriers for Grade II listed station at York? Post by: paul7575 on October 30, 2009, 12:48:38 Having said that I am tired of TOCs using the 'security' argument for barrier installation. Tell it like it is; revenue protection. Nothing more, nothing less. I too think they misuse the term 'security'. I think the public think of the word in the contect of anti - terrorism nowadays. But they do seem (as evidenced by LO) to have a beneficial effect in reducing minor crime, vandalism, late night rowdiness, etc, so I'd go with that as a good reason too... Paul Title: Re: No ticket barriers for Grade II listed station at York? Post by: Btline on October 30, 2009, 16:01:01 What I never get with some barrier lines, is why they don't put as many barriers as possible.
Brighton, London Marylebone and Birmingham Snow Hill are examples were there is a short barrier line, with just a glass wall for half of it. Title: Re: No ticket barriers for Grade II listed station at York? Post by: caliwag on October 30, 2009, 19:59:24 Mmm...nothing officilially submitted yet, however.
If it is a franchise commitment, I'd be keen to see the source. As has been suggested before, what stops punters buying a ticket to a local station...get through the barrier, and then blag their way South or North? I still maintain that the threat of a team of roving inspectors passing through a train, randomly, must be a great detterent...and in the evenings would give the travelling public fantastic reassurance...mere presence. 8) Title: Re: No ticket barriers for Grade II listed station at York? Post by: paul7575 on October 30, 2009, 20:11:00 Re NXEC franchise requirements:
Quote Interoperable Smartcard technology will be introduced to the new franchise. Bidders will need to provide an ITSO-compliant ticketing system comprising ticket-issuing equipment, readers/validators and appropriate gating throughout the franchise, and the necessary back-office functionality, by January 2010. This means that equipment is capable of accepting other smart cards and has the potential to extend the convenience and ease of smartcard technology to more passengers. Existing smart ticketing schemes in the franchise area should be considered, including Yorcard in South Yorkshire. http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/passenger/franchises/icecf1/stakeholderbriefingdocument?page=4 (http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/passenger/franchises/icecf1/stakeholderbriefingdocument?page=4) Paul Title: Re: No ticket barriers for Grade II listed station at York? Post by: caliwag on October 30, 2009, 21:05:05 Thanks Paul...I am old and plainly thick, because that lot means little to me. Common sense suggests that uniformed bods passing through a train...unannounced will ensure that the vast majority will not try to busk their way through the journey.
Strangely York station was again full of plods, yesterday, apparently randomly searcing peoples' bags...very strange. I'll probably get a knock on the door tomorrow, given the way things appear to be going, but given the level of cable theft in the north, do we not think they could be better employed? Title: Re: No ticket barriers for Grade II listed station at York? Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 30, 2009, 21:17:14 ... uniformed bods passing through a train ... unannounced will ensure that the vast majority will not try to busk their way through the journey ... That certainly seemed to work, when I was in Paris: see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=5066.msg46918#msg46918 ;D This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |