Great Western Coffee Shop

Is anyone who thinks car parking should be free at stations (or hospitals, which is the other place parking charges causes grumbles) able to give me a rational reason why those travelling to the station by alternative means (bus, taxi) shouldn't get free/reduced fares?

Parking and train travel should each be reasonably and fairly priced (and I accept that sometimes neither are and certain travellers and parkers are viewed as cash-cows which is wrong), but they are two separate services and I can't therefore see why they can't be charged separetely.

If you have a meal at a restaurant, you don't complain that you have to pay separately for your drinks. 

The argument "my ticket is very expensive therefore I should be able to park free" is an argument against very expensive tickets, not one for free parking.  If you provide parking free you end up with those who walk to the station subsiding those who drive which does not strike me as very fair.

And BTline I would remind you that season ticket holders are usually paying far lower fares than other travellers - why should they get another perk?

Almost all stations within the Centro area are free of charge all day every day. As a result, the car parks are very big in many cases. Many people who live just out of the area drive to get to a free car park. Having more free car parks would take the pressure off the existing car parks, and help the environment as people drive fewer miles to the station.

Encouraging use of buses can be done with PlusBus and through ticketing.

Many people HAVE to drive to the station. Either because of non existent or unreliable buses. Or because it's quicker. After a long train journey I don't want to wait in the rain and cold for a bus that will take ages to get me part of the way home, followed by a walk!

Season ticket holders are the railways' best, most frequent and reliable customers. Why shouldn't they park for free?

I agree completely with this in regards to using the bus (not so much taxi's though). Plus Bus I feel is a terrible idea in the fact it is an extra cost whereas it should be free, especially if local councils want to attract people to the main shopping centres or attractions in the area as very few stations are located near main town centres. Free bus travel to and from the station could be used to encourage more people to travel by train as a walk from Bristol centre to Temple Meads can be quite daunting with a large amount of shopping and young children. Travelling to the station by bus should also lead to at least some form reduction in fare, if not deducting the full bus fare up to say ^5.Yes there would be arguments as to who would fund this but if First allow you onto a bus in Bristol for free to get to the station to use their train services, then they have potentially more to gain. The same can be said for any areas where local TOCs have bus companies in the area also owned by their parent company.

This is of course wishful thinking but should be looked into by local authorities, Tocs and the dft. Public transport should work together and not be in competition between busses an trains when they should work together to reduce car journies.

Anther comment. Any losses of revenue from any Rail/Bus co. would be made up in subsidies - e.g. what Centro do.

My main gripe with Plus Bus is the fact that I cannot buy it on the bus when travelling towards the station!

why shouldn't season ticket holders get perks? yes they get a discount but whenever you buy anything in bulk (which is effectively what seasons are) then you get a discount, they are the bread and butter of the railway and basicly subsidise joe bloggs and his family who travel once a year but expect the world!

So cheap or free car parking for season ticket holders as a perk? What perk for season holders without a car?

Not paying for insurance, petrol and wear and tear!

I have to pay the annual premium for my car insurance, whether I choose to drive to the station or not. ::)

And I have wear and tear on my shoes. And increased energy comsumption to fuel me for the walk/cycle to the station. Can I get a rebate on those please?

Bignosemac specified "without a car"! ;) :D

Hmm. All those without a car save on insurance, petrol and wear and tear - whether they are season ticket holders or not.

Your move.

 ;D

One all.....

I dispute the idea that season ticket holders subsidise the joe bloggses. The relationship is closer to a symbiosis - each group would be paying more without the other.

I also mentioned people who buy a >^10 ticket.

2-1 ;)

And the walkers buying a >^10 ticket? What freebie of comparable cost to  car parking do they get?

So.....disallowed. Offside. Still 1-1  :D

Umm, not having to drive and use petrol, insurance etc. ???

I fear we're going round in circles.

If your lucky enough to live within walking distance of a station - count yourself lucky. Many of us have to drive a long way, and in return for going out of our way to get the train (we could drive all the way) we are greeted with unfair car parking charges!

Why should the West Midlands area, where many MORE people live near a station (as the network is denser), get free parking; but the parking at a place like Kidderminster, which is a railhead for a HUGE area, have to pay? Likewise for busses. The bus network to stations like Cradley and Stourbridge stns is really good, but Kidderminster's is really bad.

That's the point I'm making.

The reason its free to park is perhaps because many people live near the station and as such demand is less.

Its simple supply and demand; if my local station was free to park then i'd have to arrive at the crack of dawn to guarantee a space.

Not if there were plenty of spaces. Like at Stourbridge Junction, where there are 800 spaces. Less demand? I think not! People drive to these free car parks from miles around. (and many side streets in the area, so the number of spaces is technically nearer 1000) When if the Kidderminster car park was enlarged and made free, they wouldn't. = less car fumes. = more spaces at Stour J for growth.

But at the end of the day, parking at the station is a service I must pay for, if I walk then I save myself some money and there is an incentive. The train fare gets me from station to station and nothing else. I don't find that unreasonable.

If I go into town and buy some goods, should I expect this money I spend in the local shops to subsidise my parking?

Where do you get the space for the initial building of the car parks though? Many stations are in Urban areas and have little room for parking without having to demolish surrounding buildings to build a car park. If parking spaces are already there then there is little problem but you also need to take into account how many people would use these car parks for actually using train services and not just asa conveniant place to park in town. Nothing is ever as easy as it may seem

Both been answered before!

1. Using the decking system a la LM and CH. And Kiddersminter station is NOT convenient for the town centre at all. Ditto for W'ster S H.

2. Parking would only be free for Season ticket holders and those who buy a ticket >^10.


It does at Merry Hill. (large Westfield shopping centre in the West Mids) When they tried to introduce parking there was an outcry and complains that there was no rail/tram link.

At all my local supermarkets and Currys/Comet/B&Q etc. the parking is all free (perhaps with a 3 hour limit)

And before you argue that shopping centres are different, Merry Hill is officially the town centre for the nearby town of Brierley Hill.

Sorry, Btline, but your logic is flawed:

a) If I may presume to use him as an example, John R lives quite close to our station, and thus walks to / from it.  However, as a season ticket holder, under your rules, he would qualify for free parking, even though he would never use it.

b) I live rather further away from our station, so I would rather like the option of driving down there, when it's peeing with rain, for example.  However, as my daily return into Bristol is only ^4.00, I wouldn't qualify for any of your free parking, even for that occasional day.

C. ???

I'd sell you my space for a very reasonable consideration.   ;D

He shoots, he scores (strangely in off a big red beach ball!)

Nailsea 2 Btline 1.  ;D (sorry just a bit of fun. And maybe the ref is biased.....)

Why? Because the West Midlands is a PTA area, where the PTA has made a policy decision to provide free station parking and buses to stations, subsidised out of the money the PTA gets from taxes, both in block grant from central taxes raised by the Government and from council tax in the West Midlands. WMPTA also pays for stations in its area to be staffed most of the day.

Other PTAs have different policies, eg West Yorkshire stations are a mix of pay and free parking and many stations there are unstaffed, even smaller ones on the outskirts of towns and cities.

There's nothing stopping Worcestershire adopting similar arrangements to the West Midlands at stations like Kidderminster, but the county council probably doesn't have the money to do it.

I noticed yesterday on the FGW website when buying tickets, that you could add the plusbus option onto your tickets, which saves going to the station.

I've also noticed that 'PlusBus' has been added to ticket purchasing websites. Little anomaly I spotted was that NXEC's site is offering PlusBus for Bristol and Taunton 5p cheaper for railcard holders than FGW's site!

Because the discount they get is already a huge Perk.  On the Bath-London route a weekly season costs the same as one and a half anytime returns.

The bulk-buying offers in Tescos are "buy one get one free" "3 for 2".  I have never seen a supermarket offer - "buy one and a half, get 5 and a half free".

It is the commuters who are being subsidised by Joe Bloggs.  They pay the least but travel at the most expensive time fo the day. 

i am not saying commuters ought not to be subsidised and I'd much rather they were on the train than the road, but lets not pretent that they are getting anything other than a very generous deal when compared to many other travellers.

I too noticed that, might have to use it!

It doesn't have to be >^10, I was just using it as an eg.

Basically to stop someone buying a ^1 ticket just to park!

I'd like to see you try to buy a ^1 ticket at NLS!  :o ;D

And, to be fair, it's all rather academic at NLS anyway, as the station car park is owned by the council and parking is free (albeit limited in terms of spaces - especially after about 08:00)  ;D

However, I think the above discussion is very useful, in illustrating the difficulties that arise where station car parks owned by the TOC charge for parking (Yatton, just down the line from NLS, for example), and the view of some season ticket holders that their season ticket should include parking.

Maybe the answer is to offer two versions of the season ticket: one without, and one including, parking at the 'home' station - with their respective prices calculated accordingly?

There is a reason its known as Merry Hell - especially on the run up to Christmas

Okay. Let's make it ^20 and test the idea. I'm travelling from Tiverton Parkway to Plymouth on an Anytime Day Return (SDR) and I don't get free parking because the fare is ^19.50. However if I'm travelling to Gunnislake I do get free parking because I'm paying ^24.00 for my SDR. Now with parking currently costing ^5.60 at Tiverton Parkway, I could buy a SDR to Gunnislake for my trip to Plymouth and save ^1.10!

Now a bit later in the morning and I don't get free parking at all because we are in to Off Peak Day Return (CDR) territory and the cost of my trip to Plymouth or Gunnislake is nowhere near the free parking threshold. Not only is the car park likely to be full with earlier travelling punters taking advantage of the inclusive parking, but if I do find a space at the outer reaches, I have to pay.

And how about the policing? Free parkers either have to return to their car after buying their train ticket to display the free parking portion, or leave their vehicle details at the ticket office. Nice bit of extra paperwork for the ticket office to deal with. Oh, and what about unmanned stations with car-parks?

Not very fair, or logical.

A wild strike straight into row X. Still 2-1 :D

I normally refer to it as Merry Hell, Xmas or no Xmas! ;D