Title: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 12, 2009, 23:30:21 Video news report from the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8301950.stm) - including more examples of human stupidity, I have to say >:( :
Quote The number of people killed on level crossings is on the increase, according to the body which runs the rail network. Network Rail says 12 people have been killed in level crossing accidents this year. The number has been rising steadily since 2003. Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: devon_metro on October 13, 2009, 16:06:09 Bet that figure correlates with the erosion of common sense!
Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: Tim on October 13, 2009, 16:16:26 More likely to collerate with an increase in population, an increase in road traffic and an incease in rail traffic
Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: tramway on October 13, 2009, 16:18:23 No, it's the 'Pirate' influence again.
More pirates = more crossing deaths. Global warming (http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/) Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: Tim on October 13, 2009, 16:24:38 No, it's the 'Pirate' influence again. More pirates = more crossing deaths. Global warming (http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/) Ah, I see you too have been touched by his noodlely apendage Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: tramway on October 13, 2009, 16:28:39 Tis all true I tells thee....
Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: welshman on October 13, 2009, 19:40:37 Here's (http://www.raib.gov.uk/latest_news/091006_pn_wraysholme.cfm) the best source of information under cover of a report on the Wrayholme Crossing collision.
Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 13, 2009, 20:02:43 Thanks, welshman! ;)
Just for completeness, the Wraysholme level crossing incident has also been discussed in another topic - see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=5503.0 Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: Andy on October 13, 2009, 20:09:49 One death is too many but this type of reporting is irresponsible sensationalism. 12 is so small a number that an accident involving 3 or 4 people is bound to skew the stats. 12 this year means about 1 per month. How many people get killed crossing the road per month?
Where the real issue lies is protecting rail staff and passengers from such accidents. I feel particularly sorry for the train driver and staff on these trains - it must be harrowing. Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 13, 2009, 20:37:15 I do agree, Andy, that the emotional cost, to train drivers in particular, and to other railway staff, BTP and passengers who become involved in such incidents, must be horrendous.
That's why Network Rail are trying to educate people not to 'run the risk': for example, at one level crossing at Wareham, in May, in the space of just 12 days, three people were filmed risking their own lives, and those of others, by 'taking a chance'. From the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/dorset/8304474.stm): Quote Woman risks baby at rail crossing Network Rail has released footage of pedestrians risking their lives at a level crossing in Dorset, including a mother pushing her baby in a pram. A video shows the woman running across the track with her child moments before a train passed. The body, which runs the rail network, said the crossing in Wareham was among the worst in the country for people crossing on a red light. Two other images show people crossing as a train approaches. The incidents happened at the crossing near Wareham railway station between 1 and 12 May. Network Rail has released the images as part of its Don't Run the Risk campaign, which aims to improve safety awareness at level crossings. Iain Coucher, Network Rail chief executive, said: "The rules around level crossings are clear and simple. When the lights flash or the barriers are down, don't cross - a train is approaching." Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: tramway on October 13, 2009, 21:10:04 I have the old TV programme Equinox entitled Living Dangerously on video, can't find it online, would be grateful for help if it's out there.
There is a classic sequence where in North America they cut the trees down around an un gated crossing with 2 trains a day to give drivers a better view of the crossing, all it did was increase car speed, no reduction in overall risk. Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: moonrakerz on October 28, 2009, 20:45:31 .... in North America they cut the trees down around an un gated crossing with 2 trains a day to give drivers a better view of the crossing, all it did was increase car speed, no reduction in overall risk. OR .......similarly, after Esther Rantzen's demonstration of dropping a melon (in lieu of a child's head) onto concrete causing many kiddies playgrounds to closed and rubber matting installed, at huge cost in the rest - the number of head injuries remained the same but the the number of broken/dislocated arm rose dramatically ! Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 29, 2009, 20:47:50 From the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/8331880.stm):
Quote Woman's body found at rail side The death of a woman whose body was found at the side of a railway track in Lancashire is being treated as unexplained by police. The body was found at Brock foot crossing in Bilsborrow near Preston on Wednesday at about 2135 GMT, British Transport Police said. She was pronounced dead at the scene and the coroner has been informed. No further details have been released but police have appealed for any witnesses to come forward. Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: onthecushions on October 29, 2009, 21:29:14 It's surprising how many LC accidents are on minor, (ex-PSS) lines, involving only a dmu. If it (occasionally) comes off the road (track) then innocent staff and customers can be hurt. In practice the 3000 odd deaths on UK roads seem to be tolerated - actually this number is quite low by international standards and traffic densities - if a life is lost on rail then headlines result. There are a lot of LC's on main lines, ECML especially and an accident here, such as at Ufton or Hixon (remember the low loader that grounded?) is very, very severe. I am surprised that DafT hasn't a program for closing/bridging the busiest/fastest ones where a RA would show up the danger and likely cost. Bring back those red lozenges. OTC Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: JayMac on October 29, 2009, 22:02:32 It's surprising how many LC accidents are on minor, (ex-PSS) lines..... OTC Scratching head and fruitless internet trawl. PSS? Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: willc on October 29, 2009, 23:09:17 Provincial Sector Services, I believe - aka Regional Railways in the latter years of BR.
Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: paul7575 on October 30, 2009, 13:00:42 I am surprised that DafT hasn't a program for closing/bridging the busiest/fastest ones where a RA would show up the danger and likely cost. OTC As far as the ECML is concerened there is such a project, it is part of the CP4 enhancements plan, known as 'ECML level crossings' :) - and they've just done a load of closures on the WCML as well, so what you are suggesting does happen, within cost constraints of course. Quote The scheme allows an increase in passenger and freight services on the East Coast Main Line by eliminating or reducing the safety risks associated with level crossings. The crossings concerned are those that have been assessed as having sufficient safety risk mitigation measures with existing levels of rail traffic but for which the level of risk becomes unacceptable when additional services operate. The specific requirements of the project are level crossing closure, through extinguishing rights or replacement by bridge or underpass, or provision of enhanced safety risk mitigation measures to allow additional rail services to operate over level crossings between King^s Cross and Northallerton and between Newark Northgate and Lincoln. The level crossings concerned will be those where the increase in services causes the safety risk to rise from currently acceptable levels to where the current mitigation measures are no longer as low as reasonably practicable. Section 18.05 of the CP4 plan here: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/documents/5764_Enhancements%20Document%20June%202009.pdf (http://www.networkrail.co.uk/documents/5764_Enhancements%20Document%20June%202009.pdf) Paul Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 30, 2009, 17:47:49 Provincial Sector Services, I believe - aka Regional Railways in the latter years of BR. Thanks for that, willc - I've added it to our Acronyms and Abbreviations (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/acronyms.html) list. ;) Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 30, 2009, 20:38:29 Updated news of another sad incident, from Lincolnshire, from the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/8334842.stm):
Quote Driver's railway death accidental The death of a teaching assistant whose car was hit by a train in Lincolnshire was an accident, a jury has ruled. The train driver had told the inquest that he did not see Maria Koune's Rover 200 which was stuck on a level crossing at South Drove, Spalding, in January. The coroner rejected calls from Ms Koune's family for a verdict of unlawful killing to be considered. Ms Koune, 30, was desperately trying to get her car off the track when she was hit, the jury heard. During the inquest at Spalding motorists said Ms Koune appeared to lose control on an icy road as she approached the crossing, ending up with her car on the track. They said Ms Koune, who was from Spalding and worked at Cowbit Primary School, was panicking and tried to manoeuvre her car out of the way. Stephen Bosworth, who was driving the Peterborough to Lincoln train, said he was busy checking a signal outside Spalding station, a mile-and-a-half ahead of the crossing, at the time. He said: "I am looking at the red signal at Spalding hoping that is going to change at some point. That tells me barriers are down at the level crossing at Spalding. That is where my attention is focused. The next thing I am aware of is a large crash and bang. You just don't expect to see a car on a level crossing." Lawyer William Powell, acting for Ms Koune's family, told Mr Bosworth: "At all times, it was your responsibility to be paying attention to possible problems on the line, and you missed it." Motorist Richard Dawson told the inquest how Ms Koune's car clipped his white Transit van just before travelling on to the crossing. He said: "She was swerving, trying to get the car under control, struggling with the steering." His passenger, Clive White, said he thought Ms Koune's car stopped at an angle on the crossing, partly on one rail track. He said Ms Koune tried to manoeuvre the car backwards and forwards in the seconds before being hit by the train. Another motorist, Maria Grief, told the hearing that she was waiting on the approach road to the crossing after the half barrier came down to warn of the train's approach. She said: "I could see her car rocking back and forwards trying to get off the track. There was panic in her face, I could see it." Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: paul7575 on October 30, 2009, 21:37:39 What seems scary from the railway perspective in that report, unless I'm reading too much into it, is that the lawyer for the family was trying for a verdict of unlawful killing. Was he suggesting that the accident occured because the train driver was looking ahead of where he was and therefore failed to brake? As usual, you only get a short summary of what was said in court, but surely the lawyer for the driver would have challenged that? Train drivers aren't driving on sight and able to brake within a few yards are they.
Paul Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 30, 2009, 21:45:30 Yes, Paul: I picked up on that, too - but the coroner does seem to have dealt with that particular issue, fairly decisively.
However, as you say, we don't know what was actually said, in the wider context of that case. :-X Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: John R on October 30, 2009, 21:47:58 I suspect we'll have to wait for the Rail Accident Report to get a balanced view on this one. I can understand why the relatives of the deceased are upset. If the driver had an opportunity to brake then whilst the train would probably still have reached the crossing before coming to a stand, depending on the distances involved, it could have slowed enough to give the driver time to get out.
All they are thinking about is, could the driver have taken some action that would have saved a life, and if he didn't, why not? I suspect most of us in that situation would probably feel the same way. Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: inspector_blakey on October 30, 2009, 22:04:22 Oddly I can't seem to find any mention of this incident on the RAIB website from a quick look at either the investigations in progress or the published reports. I assume this incident was January 2009?
Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 30, 2009, 22:23:18 This sad accident did indeed happen on 5 January 2009: see the original BBC news story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/7811297.stm).
The incident was investigated by Lincolnshire Police and British Transport Police, as a road traffic accident, but not by the Rail Accident Investigation Branch. Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: onthecushions on October 30, 2009, 22:42:38 1. Sorry about the acronymn; "PSS" = Provincial Services Sector. Previous to this it was "OPS" = Other Provincial Services. 2. The other bad accident on our patch was at Charlton, Evesham in 2003, when 3 ex-pat farm labourers were killed in a minibus.... Apparently about half of LC deaths are suicides. Happy Weekend, OTC Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 09, 2009, 14:15:51 From the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/8349470.stm):
Quote Level crossing crash fine anger A ^40 fine imposed on a motorist who collided with a train on a level crossing has been criticised by a group representing a railway. Eileen Lawrence, 72, drove onto the crossing in Fairbourne, Gwynedd, colliding with a train moving at 20mph. She later admitted careless driving. No-one was injured in the incident. But members at the Cambrian Coast railway conference in Porthmadog said the low fine issued was sending out the wrong message. Ms Lawrence admitted careless driving and was fined ^40 with three penalty points, with ^80 costs and ^15 victim surcharge by magistrates in Dolgellau in September. She had claimed to have been distracted when she collided with the Machynlleth to Pwllheli bound train on 14 May. The court heard the red warning lights and the audible warning sounds were working correctly at the railway crossing, which does not have barriers. British Transport Police officer Bob Newman told the conference that the normal fine for contravention of the red railway crossing lights was around ^120. "I have to admit that the ^40 fine imposed was lenient and did not reflect the effect on the train driver, who needed time off work, or the inconvenience to the train passengers," he said adding that the motorist was very lucky that she was not seriously injured. Conference chairman Councillor Trefor Roberts, Barmouth added: "Such a low fine is sending out the wrong message." Ben Davies for Arriva Trains Wales said that he would be in favour of train operators and the British Transport Police holding talks with the North Wales magistrates court committees. "Between January and August this year there were 40 near-miss incidents reported in Wales," said Mr Davies. "The majority of them involved motorists who narrowly avoided a potential fatal collision with a train." Pc Bob Newman said that since April there had been 15 incidents of vehicles using railway crossings when the lights were on red, which was a decrease of five from the summer of 2008. Members have agreed to try to arrange a meeting with magistrates to complain about the fine. Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 09, 2009, 14:27:50 From the British Transport Police press release (http://www.btp.presscentre.com/content/Detail.aspx?ReleaseID=3085&NewsAreaID=2):
Quote BTP HANDS OUT SAFETY MESSAGE AT ST FAGANS LEVEL CROSSING - CARDIFF Officers from British Transport Police (BTP) will be at St Fagans level crossing on the outskirts of Cardiff on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday 10, 11 and 12 November, as part of a coordinated operation to offer safety advice and information to drivers and pedestrians. The operation will see officers stationed at St Fagans crossing at Castle Hill, St Fagans, throughout all three days to help make people more aware of the dangers of misusing level crossings and provide advice on how they should be used correctly. It is part of a Europe-wide initiative around level crossing safety and runs in conjunction with Network Rail^s Don^t Run the Risk campaign. Between August and October 2009, a total of 26 motorists were caught breaking the law by hurrying across the tracks at St Fagans while level crossing warning systems indicated that a train was approaching. Sergeant Gary Ash, of BTP, said: ^Some people are prepared to put their life and the safety of other innocent people at risk simply to save a few minutes at level crossings. The majority of drivers and pedestrians respect the warning lights and barriers at level crossings but a small minority are still prepared to run the risk to shave a couple of minutes off their journey time. This sort of impatience is reckless and dangerous and we are working closely with Network Rail and other partners in the rail industry to address the problem." ^St Fagans is a busy area with a large number of trains using the line where the crossing is situated. Pedestrians and drivers need to be aware of the potential danger. During Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday this week, our officers, with the assistance of South Wales Police, will take part in the high profile policing operation to raise awareness, education, prevention and enforcement, where necessary, of pedestrian and vehicular safety at the level crossing.^ There are more than 7,600 level crossings across the UK railway network and research has shown that 95 per cent of incidents at level crossings are caused by misuse with people ignoring the lights, signs or sirens. Sgt Ash added: ^It is imperative that pedestrians and drivers do not take risks at rail crossings, which are perfectly safe if used correctly. Safety procedures are in place for a reason and for the sake of waiting for just a couple of minutes, people are urged not to risk endangering their lives or the lives of others. For those that do decide to act irresponsibly there are penalties in place which could see the offender receive a fine, points on their licence or even a prison sentence.^ Network Rail spokeswoman, Mavis Choong, said: ^There is no excuse for motorists or pedestrians taking needless risks at level crossings. We welcome this initiative and encourage tough penalties for people who jump the lights or barriers to reflect the seriousness of these offences. We want to stamp out any irresponsible behaviour at this crossing before someone pays the ultimate penalty by losing their life.^ Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: JayMac on November 09, 2009, 15:30:35 From the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/8349470.stm): Quote Level crossing crash fine anger A ^40 fine imposed on a motorist who collided with a train on a level crossing has been criticised by a group representing a railway. Eileen Lawrence, 72, drove onto the crossing in Fairbourne, Gwynedd, colliding with a train moving at 20mph. She later admitted careless driving. No-one was injured in the incident. But members at the Cambrian Coast railway conference in Porthmadog said the low fine issued was sending out the wrong message. Ms Lawrence admitted careless driving and was fined ^40 with three penalty points, with ^80 costs and ^15 victim surcharge by magistrates in Dolgellau in September. She had claimed to have been distracted when she collided with the Machynlleth to Pwllheli bound train on 14 May. The court heard the red warning lights and the audible warning sounds were working correctly at the railway crossing, which does not have barriers. British Transport Police officer Bob Newman told the conference that the normal fine for contravention of the red railway crossing lights was around ^120. "I have to admit that the ^40 fine imposed was lenient and did not reflect the effect on the train driver, who needed time off work, or the inconvenience to the train passengers," he said adding that the motorist was very lucky that she was not seriously injured. Conference chairman Councillor Trefor Roberts, Barmouth added: "Such a low fine is sending out the wrong message." Ben Davies for Arriva Trains Wales said that he would be in favour of train operators and the British Transport Police holding talks with the North Wales magistrates court committees. "Between January and August this year there were 40 near-miss incidents reported in Wales," said Mr Davies. "The majority of them involved motorists who narrowly avoided a potential fatal collision with a train." Pc Bob Newman said that since April there had been 15 incidents of vehicles using railway crossings when the lights were on red, which was a decrease of five from the summer of 2008. Members have agreed to try to arrange a meeting with magistrates to complain about the fine. This maybe a little old lady with an-unblemished licence, but the sentence handed down for her careless driving beggars belief. ^15 compensation for no doubt scaring the bejesus out of the train driver? What about compensation to the TOC and Network Rail for their costs? Take her licence away at the very least..... force her to re-take a driving test with emphasis on the dangers of level crossings, and pass a sentence that sends a message. Bet you're glad I'm not a magistrate.... Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: Tim on November 09, 2009, 15:48:29 Do the TOCs and NR recover the full costs from the car driver's insurer (and I mean everything, compensation paid to passengers, time off for the train crew etc) - if not why not?.
If so the little old lady might find her premium rising. Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: Tim on November 09, 2009, 16:08:44 . In practice the 3000 odd deaths on UK roads seem to be tolerated - actually this number is quite low by international standards and traffic densities - if a life is lost on rail then headlines result. Level crossing may be a major risk for the railway (now that SPADs are under control they are the greatest risk of death according to some measures), but they are a tiny risk for the roads (because compared with other cuases of death, drinking, speeding, toddlers running out behind icecream vans, cyclists with no lights, tired lorry drivers with defective brakes etc they do not kill many people) and tehrefore a low priority. If the railway wants the road authorities to take the risk seriously (and part pay for bridges etc) then we need to argue in terms of time saved by cars not life saved. Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: paul7575 on November 09, 2009, 16:31:01 A minor point - the ^15 compensation is not directly related to this incident or the train driver at all. It is a surcharge applied to all convictions that goes into a general fund for victims of all crimes. Any criminal conviction has it applied, whether or not there is an actual 'victim'.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6431401.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6431401.stm) Paul Title: Re: 'Level crossing deaths on rise', from the BBC (12/10/2009) Post by: Tim on November 10, 2009, 15:21:50 A minor point - the ^15 compensation is not directly related to this incident or the train driver at all. It is a surcharge applied to all convictions that goes into a general fund for victims of all crimes. Any criminal conviction has it applied, whether or not there is an actual 'victim'. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6431401.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6431401.stm) Paul The ^15 "victim surcharge" is a New Labour gimmick. This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |