Title: Could 'women-only' carriages reduce sexual assaults? Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 10, 2009, 17:45:33 From the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8290377.stm):
Quote Joy of India's women-only trains India recently introduced eight women-only trains in Delhi, Mumbai (Bombay), Calcutta and Madras (Chennai). Aimed at providing safety and comfort for growing numbers of working women, the "Ladies' Specials" have proved a big hit with their passengers, as the BBC's Geeta Pandey discovered in Delhi. What's striking about the new trains - not counting the exclusively female passengers - is the bright colours. The front of the engine is painted blue and red and the carriages are bright yellow. All eight coaches are interconnected and brightly lit. The cushioned seats are comfortable and ceiling fans make the journey pleasant on a humid evening. The train I take from Delhi travels 60km (37 miles) to the small station in Palwal in nearby Haryana state. It leaves Palwal in the morning and returns in the evening, with Sunday a day off. My ticket costs 10 rupees (less than 20 US cents) and my fellow passengers are mostly office-goers and college students. Among the passengers is Supriya Chatterjee who takes the train every evening as the time suits her. "In regular trains there's a lot of confusion," she says. "Most of the times we don't get a seat and have to travel standing. Also, there is no security on the train so there are cases of purse snatching. But such cases don't happen here. It's a joyride." Sangeeta, a shy young woman who commutes daily from Faridabad to college in Delhi, says men often harass women on other trains. "They touch and pinch." She says travelling on the Ladies' Special makes her feel safe. "Here nobody passes lewd comments. Nobody teases us - it's great." For many years, most suburban trains have had a couple of coaches reserved for women. But some men always forced their way into their compartments. A few years ago, the authorities began a drive called "Bhairavi" - intended to penalise men travelling in ladies-only coaches - but it didn't work. "Sometimes men board the ladies' compartment and when we ask them to leave or get aside, they start to argue. They say that if ladies can travel in gents' compartments they should be able to travel in ladies' compartments," Sangeeta says. As the number of working women in India swelled over the past two decades, the two reserved coaches proved inadequate. Sheila Sharma has been commuting by train for more than 25 years. She used to have to fight her way into the train and there would be lots of jostling. "This is a godsend. We've been waiting for something like this for so long. We fought for a long time and then we got two coaches for women in local trains. But it was not enough, there were so many women. We didn't find space to sit. We used to feel so tired standing during the journey. But now we sit comfortably and the travel is good." The Ladies' Specials are the brainchild of Railways Minister Mamata Bannerji, who announced the service in this year's railway budget. "Our minister was very concerned about the safety and comfort of working women in the cities," Northern Railways general manager Vivek Sahai says. "The women have ample space to sit comfortably so when they get home after a hard day's work, they can cook and look after their families." Security is tight on the Ladies' Special. Five women constables and three male officers from the Railway Protection Force (RPF) patrol the aisles. As the train halts at a station, assistant sub-inspector Prem Singh Varma steps down onto the platform to ensure men stay away. "We tell them very politely that 'sir, this is a ladies' train. Please stay away, don't board this train.' If they try again, I tell them, 'if you travel on this train, then what's the point of having a women's special train?'" Mr Varma says most men comply. "But if anyone forces their way in, we take them to the police station and charge them with entering a ladies' train, and if they are ticketless then we charge them under that law too." As the train halts at one of the stations en route, men waiting nearby do not seem too happy. "Generally a man travels with his wife, or sister or daughter," said one disgruntled male passenger, Satya Pal. But since this is a Ladies' Special, he has to travel separately. "That's not practical. There should be some provision for men to travel on this train," Mr Pal said. Inside the train, however, women are enjoying themselves. I join a group of young women chatting and laughing. One woman shows off her shopping, another tears opens a packet of crisps which is shared with friends. In India's traditionally male-dominated, conservative north, the absence of men is quite liberating for the young women. Management student Charu Dua says she is happy that men have been banished from the train and that she can travel to college and back home without a care in the world. "We can laugh, we can sit where we want, we can do whatever we want, we feel free. We can sing a song, as loud as we want," she says. Title: Re: Could 'women-only' carriages reduce sexual assaults? Post by: JayMac on October 10, 2009, 19:30:43 Imagine the furore if someone were to suggest 'gentleman only' trains here!!
Title: Re: Could 'women-only' carriages reduce sexual assaults? Post by: inspector_blakey on October 10, 2009, 20:00:36 Aren't they called heritage diesel charters...? ;) Having said that, I've always preferred the term "crank-ex".
Title: Re: Could 'women-only' carriages reduce sexual assaults? Post by: Phil on October 11, 2009, 09:44:08 I believe this says it all with regard to the "Ladies" of modern Britain:
Sad reflection of the times ... a woman ejected from 2Y12 at Nailsea this morning for unsocialble behaviour... Title: Re: Could 'women-only' carriages reduce sexual assaults? Post by: grahame on October 20, 2014, 20:08:00 The Week:
http://www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/60933/could-women-only-trains-reduce-sexual-assaults Quote Transport minister Claire Perry has said she would be open to the possibility of introducing women-only train carriages to help reduce sexual assaults on public transport in the UK. Her comments were made after British Transport Police released figures showing a 21 per cent annual rise in sexual offences reported on trains. I can recall ladies compartments on the 4SUB units from Beckenham Junction to Crystal Palace Fine, if there are men only carriages too. Would we require such trains to carry male and female managers, and revenue protection? Title: Re: Could 'women-only' carriages reduce sexual assaults? Post by: John R on October 20, 2014, 20:33:56 Ah 4SUB's. Southern Discomfort as they were known. I wonder how passengers would compare them with current stock 30 years after their withdrawal.
Title: Re: Could 'women-only' carriages reduce sexual assaults? Post by: ChrisB on October 20, 2014, 20:50:36 You might want to alter thst subject line...a cosch on a train is very different to a whole train
Title: Re: Could 'women-only' carriages reduce sexual assaults? Post by: phile on October 20, 2014, 21:43:22 If "men only" trains were to be suggested, there would be a politically correct row from feminists groups.
Title: Re: Could 'women-only' carriages reduce sexual assaults? Post by: grahame on October 20, 2014, 21:50:55 You might want to alter thst subject line...a cosch on a train is very different to a whole train I gave that consideration with my original post, but I went with the title quoting as "The Week" has it, which is: Quote Could women-only trains reduce sexual assaults? The title that they chose doesn't really reflect the content of the article in my view, but then I'm an amateur and they're professional wordsmiths, and I defer to them ;) Title: Re: Could 'women-only' carriages reduce sexual assaults? Post by: johoare on October 20, 2014, 21:58:09 Indeed.. Whilst they mention assaults they don't mention which gender is carrying these out...
Title: Re: Could 'women-only' carriages reduce sexual assaults? Post by: Oxonhutch on October 20, 2014, 22:11:29 India has, or had, female only carriages and compartments. They then introduced a new bias by stating "Women Only" in 2nd , 3rd and 4th class and "Reserved for Ladies" in 1st.
BTW I see that the traditional "Ladies' Waiting Room" has now become - at least in the Thames Valley - a second (or second half of) a Waiting Room with a "Ladies'". There were instructions also, in the early British rule books, regarding staff allocating specific compartments for single female travellers. I'll try and find, and post, the specific clauses ... Title: Re: Could 'women-only' carriages reduce sexual assaults? Post by: TaplowGreen on October 21, 2014, 11:23:45 I think enough coaches/carriages to fit people in without being crushed should the priority, regardless of gender?
Title: Re: Could 'women-only' carriages reduce sexual assaults? Post by: Tim on October 21, 2014, 14:06:28 Men get assaulted too. Might not be sexual assault, but they are certainly more likely to be physically assaulted.
Surely the solution is to improve security overall. (gated platforms, visible staff (with provision for colleague or BTP backup where needed) Title: Re: Could 'women-only' carriages reduce sexual assaults? Post by: grahame on October 21, 2014, 14:53:51 Men get assaulted too. Might not be sexual assault, but they are certainly more likely to be physically assaulted. But unless that assault is by women, men only accommodation won't help. This conversation has brought back a rather painful (more emotionally than physically) experience a couple of years again Liverpool. I was working in an office set in the suburbs, and had arrived on the first morning by taxi ... taking the local bus to my hotel in the evening. I left the offices through a staff gate in the high fence, and was walking through some quite modern housing - no more than a couple of hundred yards to the main road into the city, with the bus stops thereon. Playing in the screen is a young girl - aged perhaps around 4 or 5 years - and as I walk past she asks "who are YOU - what are you doing here?" and I reply that I'm walking through to the bus stop. She starts yelling "Stranger - danger" , walks up to me and starts kicking me in the shins ... Improved security may be part of the solution ... having a bit more room on trains to stop people being jammed so tight may help ... but there are society issues too, and perhaps the issues aren't all that new (bearing in mind there were ladies only compartments in the pas), but just better publicised. Title: Re: Could 'women-only' carriages reduce sexual assaults? Post by: TaplowGreen on October 21, 2014, 15:35:59 A 5 year old child playing unsupervised on the streets of Liverpool and assaulting an adult says more about her parents and background than anything else
Title: Re: Could 'women-only' carriages reduce sexual assaults? Post by: TonyK on October 21, 2014, 17:02:04 She starts yelling "Stranger - danger" , walks up to me and starts kicking me in the shins ... Probably thought you were a fraud investigator from the DWP. Similar has happened to me. Title: Re: Could 'women-only' carriages reduce sexual assaults? Post by: RichardB on October 21, 2014, 18:55:57 Ah 4SUB's. Southern Discomfort as they were known. I wonder how passengers would compare them with current stock 30 years after their withdrawal. I don't think those old compartments, with no way of escape between stations, would be in any way acceptable today. Not that anyone would bring them or anything like them back. Some nasty incidents too, as I vaguely recall. Spent quite a bit of time in 4SUBs and 4EPBs in Surrey.......... Title: Re: Could 'women-only' carriages reduce sexual assaults? Post by: John R on October 21, 2014, 19:33:45 I'm inclined to agree with you Richard. Sometimes people forget some of the more positive aspects of changes in rolling stock over the last 30 or 40 years, most notably safety in several forms (including personal security as well as crash-worthiness).
Title: Re: Could 'women-only' carriages reduce sexual assaults? Post by: Oxonhutch on October 21, 2014, 20:34:34 BR Rule Book from 1964 ...
Quote 161: When ladies are travelling alone the staff must, if requested, endeavour to select a compartment for them (according to the class of their tickets) in which other ladies are travelling. If ladies wish to change compartments during the journey, the staff must enable them to do so. I don't know when this was withdrawn but I hadn't realised this was still on the books so recently - that's recently for some of us! :) Remember "Life on Mars" was set in the 1970's! Title: Re: Could 'women-only' carriages reduce sexual assaults? Post by: TonyK on October 21, 2014, 21:01:17 BR Rule Book from 1964 ... Quote 161: When ladies are travelling alone the staff must, if requested, endeavour to select a compartment for them (according to the class of their tickets) in which other ladies are travelling. If ladies wish to change compartments during the journey, the staff must enable them to do so. I don't know when this was withdrawn but I hadn't realised this was still on the books so recently - that's recently for some of us! :) Remember "Life on Mars" was set in the 1970's! Does "Ladies" include the David Walliams sort of "ladies"? ("I am lady, I have a lady's ticket, and I would like a lady's seat in a ladies' compartment in a ladies' carriage. From a lady's station, if you don't mind.) I do not, however, see how a government of any colour, except the black of Isis (shudder), could enforce such segregation on gender grounds without risking a humiliating defeat in the high court, let alone Strasbourg. To hear a junior minister say she may even think about it makes me think there must be an election in the offing. You heard it here first. To the Hustings, sisters! Allow me to hold the door for you, my dear... Title: Re: Could 'women-only' carriages reduce sexual assaults? Post by: JayMac on October 21, 2014, 21:43:52 Allow me to hold the door for you, my dear... Now FT,N! that is either chivalrous or benevolent sexism. :-\ ;D Title: Re: Could 'women-only' carriages reduce sexual assaults? Post by: TonyK on October 21, 2014, 22:40:06 Allow me to hold the door for you, my dear... Now FT,N! that is either chivalrous or benevolent sexism. :-\ ;D I agree. Try this with two different women, you get at least three different answers. I am at least a bit "old school", and would rather risk a slap for chauvinism than miss the chance to offer a lady my seat. I had an unexpected turn-down of sorts on a tram in Rome, heading in the direction of the Vatican, when I graciously stood in favour of a rather elderly looking nun. Using almost all of my Italian vocabulary (except the beer ordering bits), I said "Prego, sorore, si accommodi!". Her reply was, in much better English than my Latin, something on the lines of "Young man, you look like you need the seat more than me", but with a smile to melt the heart of a tyrant, and, no doubt, a prayer that will get me into heaven without a ticket, and with no questions asked. I felt mighty and humble in equal measure. This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |