Great Western Coffee Shop

All across the Great Western territory => Fare's Fair => Topic started by: Chris from Nailsea on October 07, 2009, 18:26:21



Title: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/09)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 07, 2009, 18:26:21
From the Daily Mirror (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/city-news/2009/10/06/rail-passengers-face-christmas-rip-off-exclusive-115875-21727063/):

Quote
Millions of passengers will be out of pocket as train fares soar fourfold this Christmas. Families travelling to meet loved ones will be hit by rip-off charges as only one in 20 tickets is available at a cheap advance rate.

National Express East Coast, which launched its festive fares on Friday, admitted its limited number of cheap advance bookings had already sold out. And yesterday a travel watchdog called on train companies to give cashstrapped passengers a fair deal at the busiest time of the year.

A Mirror investigation found a National Express East Coast journey from London to Edinburgh was advertised as from ^12 each way for Christmas travel. But we found no cheap advance fares were available for traditional travel dates of December 23 and 24. Instead, passengers face fares between ^24.05 and ^42.70, rising to ^48.05 - four times the advertised ^12 price - for a single back to London on December 27 or 28.

Travelling on the same days of the week a fortnight earlier, London-Edinburgh is just ^16.50 on nine trains on December 9 and 10 - and the same on virtually every train coming back on December 12.

It's a similar picture with London to Newcastle tickets. National Express East Coast spokesperson John Gelson said: "The vast majority of our Christmas and New Year fares went on sale on Friday. Customers took advantage of tickets the moment they went on sale. They sell out very quickly."

Train company First Great Western puts its Christmas tickets on sale today with others expected to follow this week.

Anthony Smith, of independent rail watchdog Passenger Focus said: "We strongly believe there should be affordable turn-up-and-go tickets, which is how railway users like to travel."


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/09)
Post by: devon_metro on October 07, 2009, 18:32:42
Slightly missing the point, whether or not the train companies sell 1 or 500 advance tickets for a train, it will be packed. Christmas trains are always a complete nightmare!


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/09)
Post by: The Grecian on October 07, 2009, 19:19:30
I love the mock outrage in these stories every single year. If trains are going to be much busier than usual of course there aren't going to be any cheap tickets - why on earth would there be? Cheap tickets are there to fill empty seats.

The most shocking thing about this article is that it appears in every single newspaper every year and the Mirror's trying to pass it off as an exclusive.


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/09)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 07, 2009, 20:46:33
I do sympathize, chaps!  ;)

When I post such items, my intention is merely to encourage topical debates on this forum - not to make any particular point: I simply quote the articles, as published.

However, in this particular case, I have to say that I did think it was a bit rich for the Mirror to claim it as an 'exclusive'!  ::)


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/09)
Post by: JayMac on October 08, 2009, 00:24:59
Could someone point the journo responsible for this article to; 'Yield Management' in a business dictionary or similar.


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/09)
Post by: inspector_blakey on October 08, 2009, 19:41:06
It's a load of old tosh anyway. I just got a first class advance fare from heathrow to Swansea on Christmas Eve for GBP38. Woo!


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/09)
Post by: matt473 on October 08, 2009, 20:16:06
Whilst I just found a standard ticket for ^12.50 from London to Swansea. If that's expensive then there is no chance of winning against the journo's


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/09)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 24, 2009, 01:11:04
Another 'reveal', from the Daily Mirror (http://www.mirror.co.uk/advice/money/2009/10/21/shop-talk-christmas-rail-deal-humbug-115875-21761969/):

Quote
Rail passengers are being lured by cut-price Christmas deals ^ only to find the cheaper tickets cover a fraction of festive services.

We can reveal families face sky-high charges on eight out of 10 journeys with First Great Western.

The south-west route giant, which operates between London, Cornwall and Wales, put its cut-price festive fares on sale last week. But our investigation found the cheap ^15 advance tickets were only available on a handful of trains over the holiday.

On December 23 the ^15 advance single was offered on just two out of 10 trains between London and Penzance. And passengers would have to set off at 7.30am or arrive after midnight.

Tickets for other trains on the same day cost ^38.90 for a single ^ two and a half times dearer.

But for families travelling back after visiting loved ones, low-cost deals were even harder to come by with just one in 10 available at the ^15 rate on December 27.

Otherwise journeys cost between ^31.65 and ^46.10. London-Plymouth fares were also dear with just three out of 16 trains  at the lowest ^13 price on December 23, with other services costing between ^27.20 and ^33.90.

Returning on December 27, only three out of 17 trains cost ^13 ^ with the others priced between ^21.10 and ^40.

The Transport Salaried Staffs^ Association union, which represents 30,000 train workers, slammed the unfair prices.

General secretary Gerry Doherty said: ^Train travel this Christmas is a rip-off. Passengers are held to ransom, as the nearer you get to Christmas, the dearer it is to travel.

^Companies exploit the market as the percentage of advance tickets can go as low as 5%, while it is normally thought to be around 10%. We want every company compelled to say how many cheap seats are available and when.^

First Great Western spokeswoman Cath Millman said: ^A lot of fares are on sale. If it^s a popular train, the best fares will have been sold.^


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/09)
Post by: devon_metro on October 24, 2009, 13:05:00
Oh my lord, ^38 London - Penzance, beat that by car!!!


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/09)
Post by: JayMac on October 24, 2009, 20:57:46
Oh my lord, ^38 London - Penzance, beat that by car!!!

Devils advocate.....

Fill the car, say 2 adults and 2 children and you easily beat the quoted fares.


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/09)
Post by: devon_metro on October 24, 2009, 20:59:49
Oh my lord, ^38 London - Penzance, beat that by car!!!

Devils advocate.....

Fill the car, say 2 adults and 2 children and you easily beat the quoted fares.

I quite agree, but the Daily Fail seems to think its scandalous that ^15 tickets aren't available!


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/
Post by: Btline on October 24, 2009, 23:33:48
Devils advocate.....
Fill the car, say 2 adults and 2 children and you easily beat the quoted fares.

Exactly, ^39 is a lot per person for a family, for example.


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/09)
Post by: Exeter on October 25, 2009, 09:03:38
Perhaps ^39 to some people is expensive - to others its quite reasonable!  Its down to personal choice and opinion!  But BT Line, please answer me this one............  As a highly unlikely scenario but never the less............ you run your own train company and you know that at a certain time of year your trains are going to be busy. I cannot imagine you being so charitable as to fill up your trains charging people ^15 for a journey when you know that even at ^50 your trains will be full and standing and people will be turned away. You cant run any extra trains because there aren't any available so from a pure business point of view what do you do????????


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/09)
Post by: Zoe on October 25, 2009, 09:18:52
^39 x 2 is ^78 for a return.  You are only saving ^5 by booking in advance and lose the flexibility of a Super Off Peak fare.


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/09)
Post by: inspector_blakey on October 25, 2009, 23:26:28
Can we look forward to an "exclusive" from the Mirror shrieking about peak-hour commuters paying more to arrive in London before 0900 than everyone else? Given that Christmas Eve is one of the busiest travel days of the year, it surely doesn't make sense to swamp trains with advance tickets. If the policy means that people end up travelling a day or two earlier to get cheaper fares then won't that provide a more pleasant journey fro them and take some of the pressure off on 24 Dec?

Yield management applies all over the world. For example, try travelling from Philadelphia to Washington DC on Amtrak over Thanksgiving weekend, leaving Wednesday night, returning Sunday night (the peak travel times for that holiday). You won't get much change from $180 (^100+) each way on a slower, Regional train or possibly twice that on the faster Acela services. This is a journey comparably in length to London - Cardiff where the off-peak return is a relatively cheap ^61.00.


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/09)
Post by: old original on October 26, 2009, 19:59:07
I wish the train companies would stop pratting about trying to fool us into thinking we'll get cheap travel around Christmas. For one or two lucky ones they might succeed but for most of us in ain't going to happen.

Wouldn't it be easier for everyone if all advance fares were stopped from a week before Christmas until a week after New Year?
We would know what a journey was going to cost without all the hassle of trawling through the advance tickets before being ultimately being disappointed in finding there aren't any available anyway. The trains are going to be full anyway, so what have they got to lose?


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/09)
Post by: vacman on October 26, 2009, 22:58:31
one small comfort is that all OP restrictions are lifted over Xmas.


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/
Post by: Mookiemoo on October 26, 2009, 23:05:02
one small comfort is that all OP restrictions are lifted over Xmas.

OP Restrictions?


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/09)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 26, 2009, 23:08:26
From our 'Acronyms and Abbreviations'  (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/acronyms.html) list: 'Off Peak'.  ;)


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/09)
Post by: JayMac on October 27, 2009, 09:15:54
one small comfort is that all OP restrictions are lifted over Xmas.

Not with all operators on Christmas Eve AM peak period. FGW, SWT, LM and Chiltern's morning restrictions remain. Virgin (to London) and NXEC have lifted theirs. CrossCountry have also lifted the AM peak restriction. This is not a definitive list, I've only checked journeys to London (except XC). However it does highlight the TOCs inability to all sing from the same song sheet.


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/09)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 27, 2009, 18:13:38
All together, now:

"Oh, tidings of comfort and joy, comfort and joy,
Oh, tidings of comfort and joy."

On the other hand: sadly, perhaps not.  ::) :(


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/09)
Post by: paul7575 on October 27, 2009, 18:15:46
The lifting of Christmas restrictions has never applied to the former SR area, TTBOMK.  I think it has only ever been an 'intercity' thing, going back to pre-privatisation...

Paul


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/09)
Post by: JayMac on October 27, 2009, 22:04:25
The lifting of Christmas restrictions has never applied to the former SR area, TTBOMK.  I think it has only ever been an 'intercity' thing, going back to pre-privatisation...

Paul

Maybe it was an 'intercity' thing. Last Christmas FGW obviously saw themselves as an intercity operator, as they lifted ALL restrictions on Crimbo eve on their long distance trains. This year, Plymouth to Paddington, for example, is obviously seen as a commuter service.


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/09)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 27, 2009, 22:13:15
Edit note: Please see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=5566.0 for the context of the following post.



Fair comment, bignosemac: I'm already moving recent posts here to 'the lighter side' - where I think they belong?

I certainly wouldn't remove them from the forum altogether - I think it's been a rather entertaining (and even educational) off-shoot from the original topic?

Chris.  ;)


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/09)
Post by: JayMac on October 27, 2009, 22:20:02
Fair comment, bignosemac: I'm already moving recent posts here to 'the lighter side' - where I think they belong?

I certainly wouldn't remove them from the forum altogether - I think it's been a rather entertaining (and even educational) off-shoot from the original topic?

Chris.  ;)

Educational? Yep. I've learnt a bit more HTML. Entertaining? WWFYB....


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/09)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 27, 2009, 22:34:34
Well, for what it's worth, I've moved a few posts from here to a new topic, at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=5566.0
C.  ::)


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/
Post by: Btline on October 27, 2009, 22:48:07
So much more interesting than the cra* from the Mirror!


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/
Post by: willc on October 27, 2009, 23:42:55
The lifting of Christmas restrictions has never applied to the former SR area, TTBOMK.  I think it has only ever been an 'intercity' thing, going back to pre-privatisation...

Paul

Maybe it was an 'intercity' thing. Last Christmas FGW obviously saw themselves as an intercity operator, as they lifted ALL restrictions on Crimbo eve on their long distance trains. This year, Plymouth to Paddington, for example, is obviously seen as a commuter service.

I think you'll find that FGW's thinking last year and this year is different simply because last year was a leap year - so December 24 was on a Tuesday. A lot of people - sadly not including myself - appeared to pack up for a week and a half's break on Friday, December 20, so far fewer people were travelling on the 23rd and 24th than will be doing so this year, when most employers will probably be expecting people to turn up for work until at least the Wednesday.

I suspect FGW's intention is to try to nudge as many people as they can into using the post-7pm services out of London on the 23rd, which will be quieter than trains the following morning and afternoon, plus they offer lower fares as a matter of course.


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/
Post by: JayMac on October 28, 2009, 00:03:04

I think you'll find that FGW's thinking last year and this year is different simply because last year was a leap year - so December 24 was on a Tuesday. A lot of people - sadly not including myself - appeared to pack up for a week and a half's break on Friday, December 20, so far fewer people were travelling on the 23rd and 24th than will be doing so this year, when most employers will probably be expecting people to turn up for work until at least the Wednesday.


Ah, but 24/12/08 was a Wednesday and not a Tuesday as you stated. The day on which Christmas Eve falls jumps forward by one in the leap year, not the following year. 24/12/07 was a Monday. 24/12/08 was a Wednesday. This year a Thursday.


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/09)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 28, 2009, 00:47:44
Quite right, bignosemac!  ;)

It's somewhat surprising that some people apparently packed up on "Friday 20 December", when they should have been packing up a day earlier - just to save those TOCs all that anguish?

Journalistic licence, perhaps?

C.  ::)


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/
Post by: willc on October 28, 2009, 01:06:51
My apologies, but still doesn't get away from the fact that lots of people did pack up the Friday of the previous week, whatever the date, rather than bother with turning out for a day or two at the start of the Christmas week, which I don't think will be the case this year.


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/09)
Post by: JayMac on October 28, 2009, 01:07:14
Quite right, bignosemac!  ;)

It's somewhat surprising that some people apparently packed up on "Friday 20 December", when they should have been packing up a day earlier - just to save those TOCs all that anguish?

Journalistic licence, perhaps?

C.  ::)

Yup, if they packed up on Friday 20th December, that would've been last possible in 2002. Quite some break!!

Oooh yeah; I seem to remember <scratches head??> that willc is a member of the fourth estate. And usually so good at accurately checking facts, particularly when picking apart Btline's posts.  ;) ;D


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/
Post by: willc on October 28, 2009, 01:09:43
Well, that does get a bit tiring at times - must go to bed now....


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/
Post by: JayMac on October 28, 2009, 01:15:09
My apologies, but still doesn't get away from the fact that lots of people did pack up the Friday of the previous week, whatever the date, rather than bother with turning out for a day or two at the start of the Christmas week, which I don't think will be the case this year.

You're right. All those people with benevolent employers are gonna miss out. Diddums!

(Oh hang on.......Boxing Day falls on a Saturday this year, so they've got a BH Monday on the 28th to look forward to. Wonder what the arrangement for rail staff is. I bet it's lucrative....)


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/
Post by: Btline on October 28, 2009, 22:58:32
...particularly when picking apart Btline's posts.

Well, that does get a bit tiring at times....

Yes, I bet searching up to TWO YEARS back for an inconsistent post does get a little tiring. ::)


Title: Re: 'Rail passengers face Christmas rip-off - exclusive', from the Mirror (6/10/
Post by: JayMac on October 28, 2009, 23:08:49
...particularly when picking apart Btline's posts.

Well, that does get a bit tiring at times....

Yes, I bet searching up to TWO YEARS back for an inconsistent post does get a little tiring. ::)

Ah.....but the question is Btline: Were you successful?  ;) ;D  (I do love sitting on the sidelines - and regularly changing sides as well!!)

(EDIT. Oops, my bad. Btline, you were obviously referring to willc's trawling of the forum back catalogue)


Title: Fares rise EIGHT TIMES - a balanced article from The Mirror "newspaper":
Post by: Btline on November 16, 2009, 19:49:50
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/11/15/fury-over-eight-fold-increase-in-rail-fares-115875-21822711/?

 ;D



This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net