Great Western Coffee Shop

Today I travelled from Shirehampton to Montpelier, single journey. When the guard asked for my fare and I flashed my DSB railcard, he initially let me off the fare with a 'don't worry about it'.

Ok so my fare was only ^1 but I felt bad about not paying so I sought out the guard and asked for a ticket, telling him I needed a record of my journey, even though I didn't.

Without a ticket being issued my journey is not recorded in any way, and I began to wonder whether this guard was just being lazy. By letting people off their fare, he is inadvertantly skewing the passenger figures, as well as reducing the revenue for his employer. Even if I was a one-off I still felt he shouldn't've done it.

To the forum: What would you do in this situation?

Exactly what you would have done. Though sadly I suspect we are in a minority.

And you make some very valid points regarding recording of passenger figures.   

Selling the ticket has nothing to do with passenger numbers - TOCs know that some passengers travel but tickets are never issued.  There is a specific 'Passenger Count' function on Avantix where data is downloaded regarding Passenger numbers.

Still doesn't answer the question about revenue..... FGW could've been a whole pound out of pocket!

Considering the percentage the Government take per ^, that statement is not strictly true  ;)

And not forgetting that the SVB Line is heavily subsidised by Bristol City Council. I'm glad that I paid my ^1. After all I don't want to see my council tax rise because FGW staff are not prepared to collect all fares when given the opportunity! ;D

Slight similar issue - except mine is of the nightmare i normally suffer......some would say its because i a disorganised, which is true - or otherwise stupid but here goes........

Left the office today - all packed up....... I have a bag of tricks that hasmy mobile chargers, my USB sticks, Modem dongle, car keys etc

Seems I realised this AFTER I arrived at reading station to get the 1751 home - GRRRRRRR

Queue a taxi to pinewood near crowthorne - a mad dash around the office and into the shower room to conclude (1) they have ben stolen or (2) a new collegue has locked em up in their desk bearing in mind there is about ^800 of mont blanc pens and cases there!

Taxi ride back to reading - attempt to phone home to ensure him indoor would taxi from ludlow - has anyone tried to use a pay phone recently - good luck - thats another post.........

Jumped on the 1911 to swansea to connect at newport.......except the chip and pin machines will not accept barclaycards with a 2013 date - they WILL be accepted in online checks so I know its no bad accounting but EVERY time I try my new card in an FGW chip and pin - its declined.

Luckily I tracked the guard down after bristol to actually buy a ticket and since arriva didnt do any ticket check I could have travelled for free - but no I shopped myself for 70+ ..........  in that chain of events - should seeking a ticket before boarding been my priority?

And do guards actually use this to record passenger numbers at each station on every train?

A number of times I've travelled from Parson St to Lawrence Hill -- a single is nearly 3 quid for the 3 mile journey, but it's pretty unusual to have a chance to buy a ticket, because AFAIK it's not on to disturb the guard while they're operating the doors, and that's often the only time you see them. One time I asked for a ticket after getting off as the guard was stood on the platform, and he told me not to bother. I didn't argue as I didn't want to delay the train.

Personally I don't have a moral dilemma about this. I never deliberately avoid paying, but I don't see why I should put myself out too much to get a ticket from someone who doesn't even want to sell me one. My only concern therefore is the passenger numbers and I have wondered whether there might sometimes be an unnofficial policy behind it. For example, FGW may not want evidence of a market for passengers travelling between Parson St/Bedminster and Lawrence Hill/Stapleton Rd because it might increase pressure on them to provide a service in both directions, when the potential numbers are unlikely to make such an improvement profitable.

Incidentally there are a lot of journeys I could easily make for free from Parson St, and occasionally I did a few years back before I found out that I could buy tickets from by the exit at Temple Meads, which is what I always do now when I'm changing there, if I haven't already been sold one on the train. Which makes me wonder how many people don't buy tickets cause they don't know they can -- it's one of those things you can't be expected to just know.

I've also travelled to Weston a few times without the opportunity to buy a ticket, although as I've always bought a single for the way back FGW have only missed out on about 10p each time.

Never used it in five years, we still have the old clickers and pen and paper, then again we've not progressed to chip and pin yet either.

FGW TM's and conductors do use it, as it is now part of their duties. There is a 'league table' of revenue taken, and counts done, at each depot. If you don't do 'em, 'they' want to know why!

According to Dog Box, you wouldn't have been insured had you not bought a ticket - so you definitely did the right thing.

Combined PTE bus and train tickets also skew figures as they don't know who travels by which mode.

The FGW ^5 off any combination of tickets costing ^6 or more offer would likely have also skewed figures.  If someone wanted a ^5.20 fare, what are the chances of them buying a child single between two stations that are close together that they had no intention of using to get a cheap ticket?

The avantix counts don't actually get used as propper statistics, just internally for FGW, the only thing that registers as an official passenger number is by tickets sold, for example, look on the station comparater on this very website, it shows Lelant Saltings as having around 600 pax per year, yet in reality it is around 600 per train in summer, it shows up like this as all tickets sold on the St Ives branch are rover tickets and thus don't show up as a passenger number!

A very good point: thanks, vacman!  ;)

Avantix counts are used by FGW to work out how heavily services are loaded and thus stock allocation for certain workings. The Avantix count just gives the total amount of people on the train at a given time, is no way used for official statistics. A train could leave a station with 50 people on board, stop at ten stops where at each stop the 50 got off and another 50 got on and the Avantix count is never going to show more than 50, while in fact hundreds of journies have been made on this service. Ticket sales are where official usage stats come from. Some mentioned not paying in one direction they just bought a single back, only saving 10p, then why not actually buy the return? It then counts as two uses not one.....

Hmm ... that's easier said than done, sometimes!  See a similar discussion in a previous topic, at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=3137.msg36079#msg36079  ;) ;D